Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by scott_ferris, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Now this looks very interesting but with a price tag to match too.... $470 for the controller and $630 for the flash.
  2. eh?
    Link or somet'ing?
  3. T'anks.
    It looked like there was a link in Bob's preview, but I couldn't get it to connect for me.
  4. After adding up what three flashes and one controller would cost me (both arms and one leg), even after selling the flashes I have, I have decided to get the Phottix Odin system that Jeff reviewed here.
    Canon three flashes and one controller= $2,360 minus $1,000 for my old 550EX's and ST-E2, so $1,360 to "upgrade" to three heads.
    For the Odix system to control four flashes not just three, $720. Sorry Canon I am obviously not in your target market......
  5. The cost to upgrade is too much. I am keeping my two Canon 580EX II Speedlite's with the Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce. Even if I sold the Speedlites, I'm not even sure if my Omni-Bounce would fit the Canon 600EX-RT.
  6. I would expect a radio control system made by the manufacturer of the camera and flashes to be much more reliable than any reverse engineered 3rd party hack. The TTL systems are very complex and tiny differences in the timing between different cameras can make or break the hack while the manufacturer's own system would work as it should. That's what I predict people will find.
  7. Again, the price increase makes me want to run out and buy up all the existing inventory I can find.

    I am sure radio control is sweet, especially outdoors, but really the price increases on all the new products just drain all
    the toy enthusiasm away.
  8. Iikka,
    As far as I know there are currently three wireless systems for implementing totally integrated Canon flash. Two are several years old and one comparatively new.
    Radio Poppers use a simple convert the light signal to radio and back again technique, a rather clever solution that doesn't require reverse engineering, I have seen no negative reports of systematic failure of the PX units, complaints about cost, bulk, ariels breaking etc but no failure to work issues.
    The Pocket Wizard Flex system has been plagued with issues from day one, severe range, interference and damage to flash heads has killed them in the water for many.
    The Phottix Odin system, they took forever to come to market but now they are here, by all accounts they work, and work exactly as intended. They have three groups, not the 600EX-RT's five, they can control an infinite number of flashes as opposed the Canon systems fifteen (unlikely to tax either really) and they work a lot further than 100ft. This has been proven and I have yet to see one owner or reviewer point out an issue, such universal praise is unusual. It might be difficult to reverse engineer, but it seems they have done it. You might predict problems for the system, but so far none of the users have reported any, and if it works with my camera and my flashes now, I am happy.
  9. zml


    Death to PW :)
    But, althought the new flash fires up both RF and IR flashes, the new control unit is strictly RF (no AF assist beam either...) so I'm keeping my ST-E2 which is great for my use of firing two 580s and providing AF assist beam. High ISO on 1Dx/5D3 is apparently amazing but while shoting in very low light AF becomes problematic hence the need for AF assist (granted, sometimes it is too distracting to use but good to have nonetheless.)
  10. Looks like you cannot use an On Camera 600EX to trigger an off camer 600EX which you can do with the 580 EXII. It's a step backward. Add in 470 for the trigger, I would stick to my Pocket Wizard and 580 EXII then.
  11. Looks like you cannot use an On Camera 600EX to trigger an off camera 600EX​
    Everything I read says you can. See eg here:

    "Radio-based Wireless E-TTL can be performed with up to 15 Speedlite 600EX-RT “slave units”, used off-camera up to 98.4 feet (30m) away, and triggered by either a “Master” 600EX-RT on-camera, or the optional new Speedlite Transmitter ST-E3-RT."
  12. I agree with Frank there Green, where did you get the idea that it wouldn't?
  13. The new RF, a little more power and a few other tweaks might be nice but I don't see replacing my two 580EXIIs anytime soon, especially at that price. With the ST-2 on the 5dII and the 7D built-in flash I have never had a problem operating the 580s off camera. Plus, as has been mentioned, there are other RF options for those that need it.
  14. Everything I read says you can. See eg here:
    I stand corrected. Two 600 EX cost about $1200 and that would be better than two 580 EX II plus pocket wizard.
  15. This is all very well, but most important for me is consistency of exposure. If that hasn't improved greatly from the 580EX II, then for me a lot of the new features aren't worth a lot. I have been in long discussions in the past with other photographers here about this. The general consensus seems to be that unless the flash head is pointing directly at the subject and no diffuser is being used, then to get correct exposure you need to dial in between +1 and +2 stops of exposure compensation on the flash to get something that approaches "normal". Also the flashguns seem to have major problems when diffusers are used. They appear to be unable to compensate for the light loss caused by the diffuser even though they have the power to do so. Given that the 600EX can turn its head in a vast range of directions and will no doubt be able to accept a whole range of third party diffusers, I am very keen to see how good the exposure is then. I just hope they have got it right.
  16. you need to dial in between +1 and +2 stops of exposure compensation on the flash to get something that approaches "normal".​
    This is true with my Canon 580EX and 580EX II Speedlites. I never had this problem with any of the series of Nikon flashes (SB24, SB26 and SB28).
  17. I haven't read the specs but how much power does it put out ? Who cares about controlling 15 $500 speedlights...
  18. A few words of real truth here. . . . 15 flash units? If you feel the need to have 15 flash units. . . you have more serious issues.
    5 flash groups? I have hard enough time figuring out the best ratios with THREE groups. Five groups implies. . . .five flashes? At this point. . . I would probably start putting a few in manual. . .or buy floodlights. . . .
    As for flash exposure. . .I have been playing around since the 10D and ETTL-I. Talk about having to get familiar with flash behaviour! These days, with ETTL-II a consistent setting of -2/3 seems to get the job done for me. I don't like having an overexposed look. . .. I couldn't imagine setting any positive settings on the FEC under normal room conditions.
    And still . . .you know. . . .maybe I shoot mostly indoors. . . .but the IR control is really not that bad. Certainly not bad enough to spend a 30% premium on the flash head. And that controller. . . man.. . .I just may have to go out and buy another ST-E2 just in case. . . .
  19. Scott Ferris [​IMG], Mar 02, 2012; 12:50 a.m.
    After adding up what three flashes and one controller would cost me (both arms and one leg), even after selling the flashes I have, I have decided to get the Phottix Odin system that Jeff reviewed here.
    Canon three flashes and one controller= $2,360 minus $1,000 for my old 550EX's and ST-E2, so $1,360 to "upgrade" to three heads.
    For the Odix system to control four flashes not just three, $720. Sorry Canon I am obviously not in your target market......​
    Scott, your math is off. The Odin system is cheaper, but your comparison does not factor in the cost of the actual flashes. I think you'll find that the cost of 4 new 550s (or used) and four Odin receivers will be much closer to the cost of four 600s. I'm too lazy to do the math myself, but I'll bet the 600s would be slightly cheaper if everything is bought new.
    Jim Larson, Mar 02, 2012; 10:06 p.m.
    A few words of real truth here. . . . 15 flash units? If you feel the need to have 15 flash units. . . you have more serious issues.​
    I can think of lots of people that regularly use 15 flash units. Some of them aren't even named McNally! All pretty big-production stuff though.
  20. Zach,
    I realise these figures are only for me in my situation, for others the maths works out very differently. For instance if you were thinking of getting 580EX II's and Pocket Wizards the Canon system looks better, or even if you had 580EX II's to sell to upgrade it would make sense.
    But for me, I already own five and a half 550 EX's and an ST-E2, in various conditions, if I wanted to sell them, which I would if I went to the 600EX-RT, I could probably get $1,000 or so on eBay. I currently use them with a four receiver set of RF-602's, worth practically nothing secondhand, maybe $50, for that I'd keep them as spares.
    So my maths is this:
    1. 3x 600EX-RT = $1,890
    2. 1x ST-E3-RT = $470
    3. sub Total = $2,360
    4. -$1,000 for gear off eBay
    5. =$1,360 for a Canon three flash wireless setup.
    1. 1x Odin TCU set with two receivers $450
    2. 2x Odin receivers @ $130 each, so $260
    3. Total $710 for a hybrid four flash wireless setup
    4. heck I might even get $80 for the ST-E2 which takes it to under $650 :)
    I had heard the rumors of a wireless flash and waited to see how the finances would work out for me.
    Phottix here I come.
  21. How do you own a half of a 550? Like, you have partial custody?
  22. No not a messy divorce! I am pretty hard on gear, I settled on 550EX's as they are the best bang for the buck available from Canon as they are a commander. I got a couple new but since then have supplemented and replaced etc, I keep old dead ones for spares.
    This is my half one, the head is good, the circuit board and screen dead, the body casing went onto one that got heat damaged and melted, the foot went onto one of the many I have broken, but it isn't normally the foot that breaks, it is the lower body where the foot attaches.
  23. About time Canon upgraded the 1980's style ST-E2 which is unfortunately the one I own.
  24. zml


    If you can live with the distance limitations, ST-E2 is OK for what it does (and for solo use as a great and compact AF assist light.) The only bad thing about optical sync is the "light show" of blinking lights which might be distracting to the models and often elicits this priceless WTF..? look from the innocent bystanders.
  25. I haven't had much luck with the ST-E2, but I know many do, for the price it really is a good performer.
  26. I read the comments by Scott Ferris and others here regarding the Phottix Odin system with great interest. I have used
    the Canon ST-E2 and a variety of Canon flashes for a number of years with what I can call adequate results. I tried some
    RF based systems and found them to be cumbersome.

    A few days ago I received a Phottix Odin "system" of one transmitter and three receivers. Total cost was $580. I tried
    them out with my 2 580EX II and 1 430EX flashes. Following the lead of some reviews I attempted to set up and use the
    setup in various modes, TTL, manual, mixed TTL and manual, and HSS. Amazingly intuitive! I then found a demo video
    on the internet and watched it to see what I had missed. I picked up a couple of addition things but all of the major
    functions were just so intuitive I was amazed. The instruction manual is provided on a CD and I went through it as well.
    Very nice.

    The setup of this system is so amazingly simple even to the point of using the ubiquitous AA batteries. They even
    provide Energizer batteries in addition to cables for hooking up other types of lighting units.

    This was not, of course, my first time at setting up such a system but still I think this is the simplest system I have dealt
    with to date. I saw on one website that a list of non-Canon flashes that will work with the system is being compiled. I
    could not find that link again, however. Sorry.

    Those who would criticize this system without at least researching it or actually giving it a try are IMO way off base. I felt
    no remorse about buying this system when a day later, Canon announced their new products.

    I agree with Scott, Phottix is onto something here.

  27. I just sold my Canon ST-E2 for $125.00 so that helps on the total package price.
  28. For those reading this post and contemplating buying a radio trigger set, I wanted to add an update. Phottix has now released the Phottix Mitros + flash unit which has all the functionality of the TCU (Phottix Odin control unit) inside a flash unit that can be used as a camera mounted master or off camera as a slave. It's fully compatible with the Odin system and also backwards compatible with their non E-TTL triggers. And, it's cheaper than the 600EX. This flash probably explains why they didn't include a hot shoe on the original TCU, and it adds a whole new layer of flexibility to their growing system.
  29. Devon,
    I ended up getting the Canon 600-EX-RT's and an ST-E3-RT. My only disappointment was in the limitations of the RT system for pre 2012 cameras but Yongnuo subsequently came out with the YN-E3-RT, it allows Group Mode in pre 2012 cameras and has an AF assist lamp, another feature missing on the Canon model.
    I am very happy with the Youngnuo and at $137 it is a bargain compared to the ST-E3-RT.
    If the Mitros+ had been available earlier I might well have gone that route, but I d like the five groups I have with the Canon/Yongnuo setup.
    But the wireless flash market is booming and keeping up to date with the various options is a challenge, I heartily recommend www.flashhavoc.com for all things flash related.
  30. Yeah, I was at flash havoc earlier. Good resource. I decided to order a set of Odins as they were the cheapest way to take my current system, a wide variety of EX models, wireless . Ironically, I didn't even know about the Mitros + at the time; however, at ca. $400 per all-in-one unit, they are serious competition for any flash + radio trigger purchase option out there. I would give them serious consideration if I wanted to expand my system any further.
    Glad you found something that fit your needs.
  31. Scott: I bought from eBay Hong Kong a YongNuo YN-E3-RT in December. It worked with my Canon EOS 5D Mark III and Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT's. But, the YongNuo needed a firmware upgrade straight out of the box before it would work with my Canon EOS 6D. For the price of around $138 with free shipping, it is a definite keeper. The battery compartment does lack a rubber seal to add to it's water and dust resistance, but I don't care.
  32. Hi Peter,
    Yes mine came with Firmware 1.02, I updated to 1.08 last night. The only "issue" I have had with the YN-E3-RT is the remote shooting doesn't fire the flashes, the Canon ST-E3-RT does. I will keep both but for pre 2012 camera body owners the YN really is a huge improvement.
  33. Scott: Are you talking about the Remote Release from a Slave Unit?
  34. Hi there Peter.
    Yes, I am talking about the Remote Shooting feature when used on pre 2012 cameras. The YN comes with two cables to connect to the remote release socket on pre 2012 cameras. With it you can hand hold a 600 and on the second Menu option the left hand button displays REL. Push that and the camera shutter works, with the YN that is all that happens, with the ST the remote flash you are holding and any other in the setup fires too.
    I use this feature for real estate accent lighting, the camera is on a tripod and I walk around with a 600 in my hand and fire it at highlights then layer mask the stacked shots in PS, the YN is useless for this. The YN does fire the remote flashes on post 2012 cameras.
    The Linked Shooting mode works exactly the same for both YN and ST.
  35. Scott: I just tested the Remote Release with two 600EX-RT slaves. Each slave was able to fire the shutter on my 5D Mark III and 6D including the second slave. Meaning all slaves fired in sync. Of course, the EOS's are post 2012 cameras. Too bad I don't have my old 5D to test. Have you contacted YongNuo about this? Perhaps they will have to issue another firmware update.
  36. Peter: Yep the YN performs exactly as the ST on my EOS-M (post 2012), but it doesn't fire any flashes with pre 2012.
    I haven't reported it to Yongnuo. Maybe I shpuld, they seem receptive to that kind of input.
  37. Scott: YongNuo responded to my question about the YN-E3-RT on their Facebook page within 2 business days. You can try there if you don't mind other people seeing your identity and reading your comment(s).

Share This Page