5DII failure rate in cold conditions

<p>Michael Reichmann:<br>

"Not to make too big a mystery of it, because I'll have a "<em>What Worked, What Didn't</em> " article up within 24 hours, but of the 26 Canon 5D MKIIs on board six died in various ways at various times, largely due to humidity and water issues, while no other cameras suffered similarly. That's a 25% failure rate.<br /> <br /> More tomorrow.<br /> <br /> Michael"</p>

<p>Seems like Canon has a problem.</p>

<p>No, it's 23%.<br>

But I am interested in hearing more....</p>

 

Isn't the camera rated only down to 32 deg F and 85% or less humidity?

<p>I would be curious to know what Michale Reichmann meant by "died". Died permanently, or came back to life in warmer and direr conditions. I've been shooting XTI for two winters in Colorado, many times in snowstorms. It's not Antarctica, but fairly cold sometimes. So far the only thing that was dying was the battery. Personally, if I were to go to Antarctica, I would have brought two film cameras. After shooting in cold condtitions in Rockies, Andes and Nepal sometimes for weeks without being able to recharge the battery, it's just too risky to shoot digital only.</p>

<p>I have used mine three times to shoot ski races in -20C or colder and twice outside in about -25C. In the case of the ski races the camera was outside most of the day. Now the canadian Rockies is fairly dry but i have had no issues so far. What conditions were they failing in?</p>

<p>Looking at Reichmann's blog, which promises further detail later, suggests the failures were moisture related, not cold...</p>

 

<p>I can top that. As far as I can tell, Canon cameras have a 100% failure rate when dropped in the water!</p>

<p>I would really, really like to see how people are using their cameras on these Antarctic expeditions. I have a sneaking suspicion that these bodies are dying from internal condensation resulting from rapid, repeat temperature and humidity shifts (i.e. moving inside/outside).</p>

<p>The reason I think this is because I've had lower end Canon bodies (i.e. 10D, 20D, 35mm Rebel, A2E) survive rain, water splashes, and in one case severe external condensation (camera setup for a star trail shoot; within an hour a thick fog rolled in, but I was inside and didn't realize it; when I went outside the camera was literally covered with dew). I have had a power switch and a shutter button replaced, but that's it. And I've never had a camera die on the scene, the switch and shutter each went slowly, I knew they needed replacing.</p>

<p>But one thing I have always been very careful about is moving equipment between warm (indoor) and cold (outdoor) environments. That was drilled into my head years before digital. I'll leave equipment in the bag long enough to adjust before taking it out and using it or getting memory cards or whatever. If you pay attention, coming into a warm room from the cold outdoors will leave the surfaces of your camera susceptible to fogging with hardly any effort. Imagine what's going on internally when you swap a lens or a memory card and warm, moist air rushes in.</p>

<p>I could be way off, maybe Canon bodies have an issue with extreme cold. (I've shot in snow under the full moon, but that still wasn't Arctic/Antarctic cold.) But if it's moisture it doesn't mesh with what Canon bodies can take in normal temperatures, even the unsealed ones you aren't supposed to get wet.</p>

<p>I hope Michael posts more details than the last time he simply announced some Canon bodies failed.</p>

<p>I've been out at -20°F right next to the ocean for 8 hours and that was the one time my 20D stopped on me. It started giving various errors and the LCD was only partially displaying, with fully charged warm batteries.. After bringing it back up to room temp in a ziplock, it worked fine. Other than that, I've had my gear out in sub-zero temperatures for days on end and not had a problem.</p>

<p>I wonder if someone would let me know where Michael Reichmann has written his critique? Actually Antarctica during the "tourist season" isn't all that cold. Lows on the peninsula range in the high 20's to low 30's Fahrenheit. The problem for cameras is that it is cool and it rains. In several trips to the Antarctic, the only time I saw a camera killed was if it got wet by being dropped or splashed in a Zodiac. Battery failure doesn't count as a death. I think it would be premature to say Canon has a "problem" when one of its consumer cameras doesn't survive conditions for which it was not designed. That said, I have had my 10D, 20D, 5D and 1Ds's survive several trips each to this and other adverse environments. </p>

<p>I think MR reported the same problem a year ago with a different model Canon camera.</p>

<p>I wonder if they are taking pictures in the sauna?</p>

<p>Canon markets the 5D series as a camera for gentleman amateurs and studio shooters. They are not designed to be weather resistant or bulletproof like the 1D series. If they added full weather sealing, redundant switch contacts, etc., the 1D series would lose massive sales. Shooting in salt spray, rain, waves, etc., with a 5D is sorta like scuba-diving with a nekid iPod...</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I think MR reported the same problem a year ago with a different model Canon camera.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I believe those were 1D series cameras left out in the rain for a couple hours. One thing I know is my camera will last longer in the blazing rain than I. The first few droplets and I'd be headin' indoors for a beer.</p>

<blockquote>

<p> 26 Canon 5D MKIIs on board six died in various ways at various times, largely due to humidity and water issues, while no other cameras suffered similarly</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Makes you wonder how many people were on the tour and why the 5D MkII was so popular. Most of these Antarctic Photo Tours don't have that many people on them. I'm surprised he could find 25 people who had actually managed to obtain a 5D MkII!<br>

It's sort of important to know how many "other cameras" didn't suffer and of those how many were not "top of the line weather sealed" models. I suppose if there were 26 EOS 50Ds on the trip and none of them failed under the same exact conditions of usage, then you might think the 5D MkII had an issue.</p>

 

<p>I would be interested in the whole story as well. Have to remember Micheal is same one who back when first 1Ds camera came out, compared it to Medium format 6x7 and said it was superior in image quality. I use to read his columns but not much anymore, same with equipment reviews. Once he gets something he likes, it's the cats meow. Must be nice to be able to afford, two bodies and all lenses for every camera system that comes out. Including $40000 digital backs. His camera collection must fill an entire bedroom.</p>

<p>I'm very interested in this topic as well as I'm going on trans-Arctic expedition ("The Polar Ring Expedition" <a href="http://www.ec-arctic.ru/eng/pr/">http://www.ec-arctic.ru/eng/pr/</a>) next month and going to be in Arctic for 4 months with my 5D and G10. Cannot afford 1D series that should survive the trip so will see how 5D would do that.</p>

<p>Serguei, your camera should do fine if you use a bit of common sense. Above all, bag it with a large (and fresh) silica gel pack before taking it from cold air to warm air, and let it warm up before removing it from the bag. I think it's also a good idea to pump zoom lenses when moving from warm air to cold air, so as to blow out the warm, moist air in the camera body and lens, not allowing it a chance to cool and condense. These common sense practices are important for Nikons and sealed cameras too. I don't believe any manufacturer has designed its way around basic laws of physics.</p>

<p>Thanks Sarah! I will consider your advices.</p>

<p>"I think it would be premature to say Canon has a "problem" when one of its consumer cameras doesn't survive conditions for which it was not designed."<br>

What sort of apologist is this? Not designed for outside cool and moist conditions!</p>

<p>I</p>

<p>As already confirmed by closer readers, the problem was cold and humid, NOT freezing cold!<br>

So, all the 'I've used mine at -50 in deep snow with no problems' are missing the message.</p>

<p>I am suspicious...26 failures? A plug for Nikon?</p>

<p>If I can ever afford a 5D MKII I have to remember not to play with it in the bathtub!</p>

<p>Kerry - 6 failures out of 26, 3 permanent, 3 temporary.</p>

<p>But his article doesn't really specify how they were used, especially in regard to the condensation issue. I honestly don't think you can draw conclusions without knowing use habits and history. Worse, because the majority of gear on these trips is Canon, Canon gets the "failure" headline.</p>

<p>He also reported that a Nikon 80-400mm lens came apart. Are we to conclude that Nikon lenses therefore tend to come apart? Or should we be curious about what the owner failed to reveal regarding the lens history, or any bumps/accidents on the trip?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"I wonder if someone would let me know where Michael Reichmann has written his critique?"</p>

</blockquote>

<p><a title="Click to open link in a new browser window" href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/antarctica-2009-worked.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/antarctica-2009-worked.shtml</a></p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"It's sort of important to know how many "other cameras" didn't suffer and of those how many were not "</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'm also very interesting in this topic. I love winter photograpie. From internet reading I found that some people complain about low temperature performance, some are pretty happy. I doubt we could ever find the real stats about Canon's failure rate especially vs the closest competitors.<br>

But from my personal (amatouer) experience the 5D+24-105/4IS has very bad AF performance even when it is just a bit below freezing (5D+70-200/4IS probaly a bit better). What is it: the lens, the body or the combination, or I'm just out of luck with this particular item?<br>

I just could tell you a story how I almost died from jealousy when I tried to shoot a stay sill heron (during just a bit below freezing condition) and was not able to focus in time (central point, 'one shot' and so on) while a photograper with Nikon (with D200?) next to me not only took this picture, but even took a few more after the heron took off, on fly (he used similar lens, AI servo or whatever Nikon's analog is).<br>

Please note that my previous Elan-II+28-135IS worked satisfactory under -15C and this post is not about Nikon vs Canon. I just tend to agree with Puppy Face that 5D is a professional camera but in sense of studio, wedding or other "mild" conditions under which it is used probably by 99% of users and very happy about it. Also I'm pretty sure if one will call to Canon's support and ask them on this subject the answer will be "look in the user manual. Anything else is not supported"<br>

Here is my old post on AF performance:<br>

<a href="../canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00JKKV">http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00JKKV</a></p>

<blockquote>

<p>"If they added full weather sealing, redundant switch contacts, etc., the 1D series would lose massive sales."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Maybe, but I think Canon is losing a market here. With weekend warriors prepared to pay $800 for Gortex jackets and $400 for boots to walk to Everest base camp, most of which is used to walk to the local coffee shop in winter, I suspect a Canon prosumer model that was small, sealed and aimed at adventure tourists would sell like hotcakes.</p>