5D image question, CF card problem or Camera?

This query could probably as easily go in the digital darkroom or digicam forums , but

I've been using a brand new 5D since May 1 (I know, I timed about 3 week$ too

early). I've only taken about 200 pics in that time, and have uploaded the CF card to

my PC on 5 different occasions during this month. At every dump there have been

about 10% of the shots that show up as "unable to display image" on the camera

monitor, and see only a very small thumbnail which can't enlarge. When dumped to

the PC the problem files are either corrupt or have half the pic missing. This morning I

shot some pics at a little league baseball game, and I got only one "can't display image"

but then I got 5-6 out of the 50 I took that have this pattern displayed (see attached),

looks like someone shot a bunch of hot pixels at the file! I've seen "hot" pixels in an old

Olympus 8080. The hot pixels cover the entire picture, with some areas of normalcy in

bands.

 

I have done the firmware update to 1.1.1 (just last night prior to shooting the attached

and others). Should I just buy some new CF cards or does this seem like a more

serious problem? I have some other cards I could test also, but they're even older than

the Sandsik. I haven't done the "sensor clean" since the cam is only a month old, and

havent changed lenses more than a dozen times, and always turn off, etc. In my 2.5

years with the 10d, I got only a handful of "can't display image" and never got any of

this hot pixel pattern.

 

Thanks, Tom.<div></div>

Do you <b>re-format the card each time you put it back in the camera</b>? This locks out any bad areas of the card so they can't interfere with image storage.<p>

 

Sal B.

If you're not using a card reader, I'd suggest getting one. They're much more reliable (and faster) than a USB link between the camera and PC.

 

Those "hot pixels" are not normal. They're unrelated to dust on the sensor, which would show up as dark spots in shots taken at small apertures.

 

I'd try a new card and a card reader. If you still have problems, it time to contact Canon. When you said you have a "Sandsik" card, I presume you meant "SanDisk"? Never heard of "Sandsik".

>>show up as "unable to display image" on the camera monitor<<

 

Camera monitor? Are you trying to reload the images from PC to 5D?

 

How are you transferring the image files from the card to the PC? Are you using a card reader?

 

The crop, how small of an area is it? Can you post the whole frame version (small)

I reformat the card in camera every time I start a new session on the card.

 

I always use a card reader, yes Sandisk. The cables as supplied by Canon for every Canon digitial i've ever purchased are still in their wrappers!

 

I am going to test tomorrow with some of my other cards when I dig them out. First time I've been disappointed in a Canon product, going back to 1980. Thanks for the quick responses.

Giampi, no was not reloading images from PC back to flash card. Attached is a crop of the top half of the jpeg image, contains the original crop. Is bigger than pnet standards, but when I resized the image to 640-ish the pixels in question are more or less taken out. I've been shooting raw/small jpg, maybe Canon does this on oof images, makes my editing easier :)<div></div>

Do you have Lexar's Image Rescue or SanDisk's equivalent? If you do, it has on it

Secure Erase.

 

Every now and then it's good to permanently erase a Memory Card, Reformat it on

your computer, then Format the Memory Card to your camera.

 

If you don't have, may a recommend that you buy two Lexar CF Cards: A: 2 or 4GB

CF and B: 1GB CF Card. Both in the 133x speed.

 

With the 1GB CF download and re-burn to your 5D Firmware 1.1.1 Just in case any

corrupt data got onto the 5D from a bad CF Card.

 

When you buy Lexar CF Cards, you'll be able to download into your computer Image

Rescue 3.0 from Lexar's website.

No it's not necessary to use a card reader (the USB interface works just fine on the 5D)

and no it's not necessary to reformat the card between shoots either on the camera or the

PC.

 

I would suspect your card reader first and the card next. To test both together, copy lots of

large files, or one large file, from your computer to the card and back to the computer

again in a different folder. Then do a binary comparison between the original(s) of the

file(s) and the ones that did the round trip. Mac has the command-line "cmp" and "diff" for

that last; I don't know what if anything Windows provides.

It does not look like data corruption to me at all. If the data was corrupt, you wither won't be able to open the file at all or parts of the picture would be missing.

 

Unfortunately, this appears to me camera/sensor issue. Where did you buy this camera? If you try, you may be able to exchange your for another one. If not, then contact canon.

"Do you re-format the card each time you put it back in the camera? This locks out any bad areas of the card so they can't interfere with image storage."

 

Formatting flash media in a camera only resets the root directory and both copies of the allocation tables - similar to doing a "quick format" of a HDD in a PC - it doesn't physically "format" or "imitialise" (or test) individual sectors (if it did, large cards would take several minutes to format).

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

A friend of mine had that problem before and finally the cause is found: He rotated some images while viewing them on the computer screen with the card and card reader still attached. These images were corrupted and could not be viewed back in the camera. I hope you did the same.

The pixel issue is definitely NOT normal. Did you bump up the levels in post? What ISO setting was used for that picture? For sure, the image should be void of such. I would send it to Canon or return it for an exchange, if you still have time.

The reason I asked about the ISO setting is that I have had some hot pixels like yours show up on in-camera jpgs taken at ISO 3200. It's annoying but, I couldn't find any info about it and/or a solution. See this example. The shot was taken at ISO 3200 with a 24-70L wide open at 1/25s - in the crop, you can see th pixels in question....<div></div>

here's the crop...<div></div>

I should also add that my hot pixels are always in the same place... I think it shows some issue in the gain stage of the 5D, and/or the sensor itself and it shows mostly at high ISO settings. I don't know...

 

I have had them also at ISO 800, as in this example... I took some snaps of my kids playing in the pool at ISO 800, with 550EX and 24-70L - again, some very annoying pixels showed up...<div></div>

and here's the crop from above shot...<div></div>

I have a newish 5D and have never seen hot pixels like in your example. Exchange it for

another camera body. But first, you might shoot in RAW mode and see if you still see the

hot pixels ( I don't shoot jpeg).

 

A side note: Hot pixels can be created by (gamma rays?) when traveling by aircraft. Each

time the camera flies, it will gain more hot or dead pixels. There may be a software

routine that will deactivate the bad pixels. Perhaps using the long exposure noise

reducing exposure will do this. I have a professional digital movie camera and there is a

menu item in the "secret" engineering menu designed to find and "black out" the hot

pixels that accumulate as the camera ages. In my movie camera, once a pixel is so

designated, it is never usable again...

By Airplane? Then my 20D should of been filled with hot pixels. I bought my 20D in

2005 and sold it this last April 2008. I fly between Seattle and Los Angeles 3 to 4

times per year.

 

My 20D had only one hot pixel.

Giampi, et al thanks for all the tips. I haven't tested today yet, but to answer some questions, the ISO is 100. These have Zero post processing done (ok i suppose the jpeg has the standard style or whatever the factory default is, I haven't checked), but these are from RAW shots, I've been shooting RAW+small jpeg. The RAW files have these artifacts in them. The thing that is suspicious to me is they're not in every shot, just about 1 out of 10 or so. The large jpeg I posted I simply opened the small jpeg and cropped the approximate top half of the image. I may try the bit suggested about formatting the card when attached to the pc. I got the 5d at Newegg, been reliable for everthing else I've bought, although I usually buy from B&H. It may have to go back to Canon, since newegg is "30 day exchange from date of invoice" which kind of sucks since I got about May 5, ordering on May 1.

>>.The RAW files have these artifacts in them<<

 

How do you convert them?

WT this sounds to a card problem to me.

So before you test every other thing, test another card.

Does not matter how old test 3 different cards.

Does the problem occur on all you know it's the cam and you should take it back to where you bought it from.

 

Frenk

I wanted to post a follow up and thank everyone for their advice. The short of it is my new 5D will be taking a trip to Canon Irvine after I called Canon this morning. The phone tech said it sounded like a problem communicating between the processor and cards (I tried 5 different cards, including one brand new).

 

I tested with multiple cards of my own, consistently got 10-20% "cannot play back image", and a portion of those would be corrupt in DPP/Bridge, with the remaining files normal. I even purchased a new faster Transcend card yesterday, but I got a "cannot play back image" on 50% of the shots from the new card! I put one of my old cards in a demo 5d at Glazer's, and it read the same way.

 

Does anyone know if they routinely fire the cameras before leaving the factory? Seems like this would have been picked up right away if so. I was impressed with the guy on the Canon phone back east "Mike", neither he or I had to repeat anything, which is unusual with customer service these days. I know one thing I will be doing when I send the cam in is taking some pics and printing them out to include with the written description (a pic of the 5d display with the error message, as well as the original file I posted) Because after reading multiple posts on DPR (God help me) about people having to re-return their cams to Canon repair because the problem wasn't really fixed, some of them I wonder if an inadequate or incorrect description of the problem was given "operator error".

 

Thanks

Tom