4x5 in 120 tanks

<p>I'm developing 4x5 film in my tanks which are meant for 120/35mm film. It seems to work fine. I'm using D-76 at 1:1. My question is, how many sheets of film can I get out of say 800ml working strength D-76 at 1:1 (so 400ml of stock), and how much should I extend the developing time for each subsequent sheet?</p>

<p>Rob, D-76 dilution 1:1 is not meant to be re-used. I developed two sheets of 4x5 in a Patterson tank designed for 2x35mm or 1x120 film and it worked very well.<br>

Perhaps you could get away with 4 sheets in such a tank if you manage to load them without touching each other.</p>

<p>Well, I know, and normally I use it 1 shot. But I would like to develop 1 sheet at a time, and would like to get some more economy out of the developer. The problem is I need to fill the tank up, which without the spiral, full to the top, is something like 800ml. </p>

<p>Kodak's data sheet for D-76 tells us that if we<br />dilute D-76 1:1 i.e. (400ml stock solution with 400ml water) to make a working solution; to maximize useful life, add water to the stock solution just before use.</p>

<p>Additionally Kodak's recommendation is, to discard used working solution after a one-time use i.e. do not reuse or replenish. The published capacity when diluted 1:1 is two 8x10 sheets per liter. This publication also states: Increase developing time 10% if two rolls of 36-exposure film is developed together in a small tank.</p>

<p>Sometimes we need to do a little math to find the underlying facts.</p>

<p>First the capacity for 4x5:</p>

<p>Two 8x10 sheets = eight 4x5 sheets per liter<br />(1000ml). This works out to 6.4 sheets of 4x5 per 800ml.<br /> As to the time increase: I know a 35mm 36-exposure<br />film contains 1560 sq. millimeters of film that works out to 85.25 sq. inches.<br />Since a 4x5 sheet = 20 sq. inches, a 36-exposure roll is the equivalent of 4.25<br />sheets of 4x5.</p>

<p>My capacity math above is flawed.<br>

I will stand in the corner with my dunce cap on for 1 hour.<br>

The length of 1 35mm 36 exp. Is 1560mm. The area is 0.543<br />sq. ft. or 78 sq. in. Thus a sheet of 4x5 is the equal of 4 sheets of 4x5.<br>

Sorry about that, had a senior moment. </p>

<p>Rob, I can get 3 sheets in a Paterson tank using the Taco Method. If you want the best economy from D-76, replenish it. Next best is to use it one shot with continuous agitation. You need 25ml of stock / 4x5 sheet. If you develop 3 sheets together, you need 75ml of stock. Dilute it 1:1 and you end up with 150ml of working solution. That's the very least I would attempt to use, and doubling it would make me feel a lot better. Good luck!</p>

<p>Could you guys describe how you load the 120 tanks for 4x5 ?<br>

Thanks,<br>

Charles</p>

 

<p>Last night I just dropped a single sheet in and it came out fine. You have remember to use the center column so the container is still light proof. Also I filled the tank up entirely to be safe. With the taco method you just put some kind of band around the film so it's in the shape of a taco. The emulsion should be on the inside. </p>

<p>If I only need 25 ml per sheet, can I use much weaker dillutions, say 25:1, so I can fill the tank, and just extend the development time dramatically?</p>

<p>Not according to Kodak. Kodak limits the useful dilution of D-76 to 1+2. That might be because higher dilutions aren't very practical for most users, and Kodak didn't consider it cost beneficial to test higher dilutions, or it might be because the pH drops low enough in dilute solutions to leave the hydroquinone inactive. Or the truth might be something I haven't considered. There's one way to find out...........</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Thus a sheet of 4x5 is the equal of 4 sheets of 4x5.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Add another 30 minutes with that cap if you prefer. :D<br>

1 sheet 8x10=80 sq. in=4 sheets 4x5 = 1 roll 120 and is close enough to include 1 roll 36 exposure 35mm film.</p>

 

<p>Charles,<br>

You got me!<br>

A tip of the hat to Charles.<br>

60 more minutes with the dunce cap for me!</p>

<p>You could build a simple tank to develop a single sheet, mine uses about 6 ounces (180 ml).<br>

Go here: <a href="http://www.btinternet.com/~g.a.patterson/photos/lfdevelop.html">http://www.btinternet.com/~g.a.patterson/photos/lfdevelop.html</a><br>

IIRC it was less than $20 USD to build. On mine, I used the flat blades from black plastic disposable putty knives instead of rubber sheeting.</p>

 

<p>Sorry, rubber sheeting was used in the original design but that website is down. The above site, the author used abs sheeting. I found the putty knives before I found the sheeting so that is what I used.</p>

<p>Gotta' say ... I still think the best way to do 4x5 is in a tray. I know it takes up more space, but any closet in the house could be easily sealed off with some felt and rubber strips along the door frame, and you only need about a 2'x8" length of low shelving to work on. You still only get one use out of your developer, but you use so much less of it, and your stop and fixer last forever this way.</p>

<p>I know it's not EPA-approved, but I wouldn't even worry about the fumes unless you were using Morsch or other super-strong chemicals or developing fifteen sheets at a time.</p>

<p>I'd strongly recommend looking around your house/apartment for a good place to work before buying or building a new tank. I haven't done 4x5 much but I used to do 2x3 (worst format ever) in the boiler closet in my apartment.</p>

<p>I tried the tray method, I found I could only do 1 sheet at a time otherwise they all came out all scratched up. That is why I went and searched and found this handy home developing tank. For washing I use an old FR tank or a tank with a hanger to help flatten out the film. It can easily be loaded in a dark bag and can then be developed in the daylight like the paterson tank but without using as much chemistry.</p>

<p>Clay, I guess my use wasn't (and still wouldn't be, if I ever got into 4x5) as difficult as yours. I only use larger negatives for studio shoots, so I'd only be doing a few at a time. Even if it was a long shoot, I would probably run in the back and develop my sheets while the model was changing her clothes and makeup or whatever.</p>

<p>Sometimes I forget that there are still people that use big cameras outside ;)</p>

<p>Rob,<br>

Here is a clever solution that I use for my 4x5 processing. Do a search on the auction site for this item number 130497857419. A number of APUG users (including myself) have given favorable reviews of the product.<br>

Dave</p>

<p>I still prefer the Jobo 2521 tank, now called Multitank 2, catalog number 2520; 2509n reel; and 1509 roller base. <a href="http://www.jobo.com/web/JOBO-System-Tanks.850.0.html">http://www.jobo.com/web/JOBO-System-Tanks.850.0.html</a><br>

Being the ABS pipe used in Clay's example comes in larger sizes it is conceivable to build a larger tank to hold more sheets. A manual roller base can be built from a piece of plywood or similar material and 4 plate casters with 3/4 inch to 1 1/4 wheels.</p>

<p>hi<br>

i use a tank like <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/86587-REG/General_Brand_NP10115_Stainless_Steel_Tank_with.html">this one</a> and load two sheets at a time. It works perfectly, and I prefer it over the tray-method because I can control temperature better and I don't worry about any scratches. I put both sheets vertically upside-down (meaning the slots that identify the film are on the bottom of the tank), emulsions towards the center facing each other (non-emulsion side facing the sides of the tank). The negs never move from where they are (or if they do, you can't know. There are no scratches at the end, and no noticeable change of positions inside the tank).<br>

As of the developer's life, 4 sheets of 4x5 are pretty much the same area as a roll of 35mm (36 exposures) or a 120 roll, so I mark the usage of the developer accordingly on my record sheet. When I develop a roll, I make a check, and when I develop 4x5 sheets, I draw squares. 4 squares equal one check, and you keep track on the usage and know how to compensate accordingly.<br>

When using a liter of D-76 stock (I just like it stock), I make a chart for 12 rolls, and compensate by adding 30 seconds every 3 rolls, so rolls 1-2-3 are normal, 4-5-6 plus 30 secs, 7-8-9 plus 1 minute, and 10-11-12 plus 1,5 minute. Though usually, by the time I reach the 10th roll, I like renewing the developer... but I've used it through 12 without troubles. To me it's just a pet peeve to discard after the 9th roll...</p>