35mm On the View Camera

I now have a question which i do not know the answer to!

 

I am sure this has been asked before, but with all the refrences to

35mm AND view camera I couldn't find it.

 

First of all, is there a graflock/international compaitible 35mm film

holder (panoramic OK but not prefered)?

 

If not, would it be possible to obtain a cheap manual everything

camera with a lens and build either a cambo or graflock compatible

adaptor using the mount from the lens and then focussing through the

viewfinder?

 

Would the viewfinder align with the film plane? i noticed if i remove

my tripod mount and place it outside (not betwene) the standards, I

can move focus the inside element to the point it touches the glass.

 

Another thought i had was to get a body without a lens (less

expensive, since the lens would be useless) and get a T-Mount adaptor

for the camera I used. Then get a T Mount from edmund optics and

attach it to the board. That way if the camera dies, I can get any

variety of new 35mm body to replace it.

 

Is there a nikon, pentax or minolta adaptor existing? I'd like to use

my contax, but because of the grippy thing I'd have to shift to get it

in the middle of the frame, this is OK I guess but i'd have to think

about it, also, I'd be concerned that a ho,e brew would fail, I can

afford a new FM, I'd die along with my RX if it did...

 

Just to avoid the "why use a veiw camera if you don't have LF"

discussion, the only reason I bought this camera is to obtain movements.

One other thing- I DO have wide angle bellows with my 90mm lens, When I tested it with the lens just off the glass I still had about 5cm of lateral movement in all directions before the recessed lensboard collided with the inner flange of the back... 10cm of cummulitive movements at around infinity should be sufficiant for 35mm, esp since I tend away from long shots, wouldn't you think?

There is a Sinar panel that has a standard Nikon mount which enables you to mount a Nikon 35mm camera on the back of a Sinar view camera.

 

I use this quite regularly commercially to take 35mm slides of very small and intricate engravings for the artist for slide show and insurance purposes. The picture shows a Nikon f90X (N90x USA) and my Sinar f2 with 90mm lens and bag bellows (shutter is in the camera!).

 

Calumet are also currently advertising an EOS1Ds digital camera on a view camera platform.<div></div>

i have a similar adapter for my technikardan to my leica. i nearly never use it.....

Talk to skgrimes.com

I think B & J used to make a 35mm Graflok adapter back, but I've never seen one come up used. (Never looked for one, either.)

 

You can kludge one together very easily, in exactly the way you described. I made one out of an old T-mount microscope adapter hacksawed to size and screwed onto a piece of flat black fiberboard. Flare's still a consideration because of the excess coverage.

 

This is a plausible setup for 35mm closeup photography-- the view camera becomes a macro bellows, but with the benefit of movements.

ano -

 

kodak made a adapter like this -

it was called a 35mm kodachrome adapter for a recomar camera.

they don't usually have a back that fits onto a graflock - when i had mine, it was

necessary to have a graflock plate made ( mine was wood and cost about $40-$50 -

don't remember it was about 4 years ago), and the back without the adapter costs

something like 40-60$.

they have a ground glass to view the image, and the film back slides up and down on

a "plane".

 

here is one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2947312930&category=29973

 

as i said, it just needs to be afixed to a board with a hole in it :)

 

good luck!

 

-john

 

ps. this one doesn't have ttl metering like the lecia or nikon :(

I think you'd be way better off to get a 6 x 7 back for it. With a

35mm body you're going to to need a longish lens to be have

enough room, although this is less of a problem if your goal is

macro. The other problem is that your shifts are in most cases

limited not by the coverage of the lens you choose, but by

vignetting from the lensmount--the hole isn't big enough.

 

There are plenty of solid 70's SLRs available dirt cheap these

days. It's not like you need AF or fancy metering. Save the RX for

when you really need those things that make it so great.

 

I know of no 35mm on 4x5 adapter, which is too bad, there are

some kind of amusing pano possibilities--24x120 anyone?

 

The viewfinder should work mostly O.K., although it will almost

certainly NOT naturally end up in the same place as the view

camera's ground glass, although if you went to considerable

extra effort making the adapter I guess you could make this

happen. Not much point in usingthe ground glass when you're

going to attach an SLR anyway. The only problem with the SLR

view finder is that if you use front drop/back rise, the virefinder

will show a little bit of image that will in fact be vignetted out at

the film plane.

Over the years there have been many means of combining movements with 35mm. There has been a 35mm view camera, the K.I. Monobar, made by Kennedy Instruments and marketed briefly by Ilford. Too briefly, it never received the bag bellows it badly needed. Several bellows attachments have incorporated one or more view camera movements. (If you have Stroebel's "View Camera Techniques" 7th edition, looka at page 274.)

 

Regarding 35mm backs to fit the Graflok, there have been several, and also several adapters made to fit entire 35mm cameras behind a Graflok. Most of these have placed the film at the back of the body, a substantial disadvantage. Not only does this increase the minimum extension, it means you can't focus on the view camera groundglass. That's all right in the case of an adapter to an SLR body, but they are particularly thick. This places the film so far from the swing and tilt axes that it must be a nuisance making readjustments after making one of these movements.

 

This may be the time for a re-introduction of the 35mm view camera, this time as an alternative back to fit on a camera designed for digital use.

 

If you examine the Monobar, you can see that it has numerous advantages to offset the loss of a large viewing screen and film. It is able to use any of the great variety of inexpensive films available in 35mm. A mere 12" rail provides an extension of six times "normal" focal length. A 4" X 5" with an equivalent extension would have a 36" long rail. It would, of course, offer monorail advantages to a backpacker. There are other advantages, as well.

 

There have been a few 35mm film holders which place the film at the front of the body. The holder for the Monobar was one of these. Another was made by the Keith Camera Co. of Los Angeles. It uses bulk film, so has to be loaded in a darkroom. It will take a very long length, but you can also load it with short lengths pulled out of the usual cassette, since no feed spool is necessary. It attaches to a 4" X 5" in the usual Graflok manner. I have one of these and will send it to you on a one year loan if you pay the shipping costs and will provide the Forum with your comments on its use. Within the year you should be able to locate another one, or an equivalent, if you decide you like using it.

If you can't find a commercially-made adapter back, another option for the T-adapter/home-brew route is Orion Telescopes (www.telescope.com). The primary issue I'd see is making the adapter back and T-mount sturdy enough for the weight of the camera. Another option would be to rob the camera-mount standard from a 35mm bellows unit, and use that as part of your adapter back on the view camera.

 

The thing to watch is how much clearance is required for the face of the camera extending in front of the lens mount. The telescope T-adapters typically provide a couple of inches of clearance, but the 35mm bellows standard may be too shallow.

Ernest Purdum writes:<P><I>"This may be the time for a re-introduction of the

35mm view camera, this time as an alternative back to fit on a camera designed for

digital use."</I><P>

ernest, it is already here and it is called the Cambo Ultima 35 from <a href = http://

www.calumetphoto.com> Calumet Photographic</a>. Lovely camera. I have been

working with one for the past two weeks in conjunction with a Canon EOS 1Ds body.

My favorite lens with it is the 28mm f/4 Schneider Digitar. A full set of fully geared

movements (axis tilt, vertical & horizontal shift, swings, and fine focusing) on both

front and rear standards. It can worth with either digital backs from a variety of

manufacturers or with the Canon EOS 1Ds, Kodak 14n, Nikon D1x, D100 or Fuji S2

digital 35mm like SLR cameras. The camera can be configured for the different body

sizes or sensor depth so that the tilt & swing movements are truly axis aligned.

" is there a graflock/international compaitible 35mm film holder (panoramic OK but not

prefered)?"

 

Yes. The Linhof Super Rollex 35mm back. It is not a common item, however.

I don't know if this is relevent...these came with a Kardan Bi that I just bought(I know very little to nothing about LF). There is a Linhof lens board with it that has a Nikon F lens mount on it. And there is what I think is a rear plate that fits behind the ground glass that has a mount to accept a Nikon body (this one is home made but the front board looks 'factory' ). Just thought this might be interesting...........and just in case you're wondering why I bought the Kardan, it was part of a large collection of Nikon, Mamiya, and linhofs I bought from an older man. I wanted the 35mm and medium format.

"why use a view camera if you don't have LF". It IS sort of pointless.

 

Ok, here goes.

 

Your two concerns are lens focal length (I hope you like 'em long, that's all you'll get for view cameras) and bellows.

 

Ok, so go out and get the smallest format view camera you can. An older 2x3 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 would be best. It need not be larger than that. Make sure it has a BAG BELLOWS.

 

Get a blank piece of metal to fit where the back should go. A machinist should be able to do this pretty cheap and easily. Now find a front body cap for the camera. Glue it (or epoxy, something sturdy) onto the metal. You want the film centered as closely as possible. Drill out the center, with a hole as large as possible.

 

Ok, now hook the camera on and you're ready to go.

 

If you need access to the front of the camera (like to unmount it) you might need to use a scrapped extension tube instead, so it brings the camera off of the metal sheet.

 

I've thought of doing this with my ETRS, but it'd be pretty pointless on an 8x10.

Oh, yeah, there's something else. If you're using a camera with an internal shutter, (hey, the ETRS might not work) you can just get barrel lenses and not worry about it.

Jason, the problem with hanging a smaller SLR on the back of a view camera, or even a smaller RF camera with non-zero flange to film distance is loss of the ability to use wide angle lenses. There aren't many usefully short retrofocus lenses with much coverage.

 

On another topic, I'd swear I've seen film holders for Graflex Photorecord cameras that attached to 2x3 Graflok backs. If I wasn't mistaken, one of them would be a reasonable way shoot lot of 35mm on a decent small view camera. Effectively convert any of them into an reasonable but very clumsy approximation to a Monobar.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

Over the years there have been many means of combining movements with 35mm. There has been a 35mm view camera, the K.I. Monobar, made by Kennedy Instruments and marketed briefly by Ilford. Too briefly, it never received the bag bellows it badly needed. Several bellows attachments have incorporated one or more view camera movements. (If you have Stroebel's "View Camera Techniques" 7th edition, looka at page 274.)

 

Regarding 35mm backs to fit the Graflok, there have been several, and also several adapters made to fit entire 35mm cameras behind a Graflok. Most of these have placed the film at the back of the body, a substantial disadvantage. Not only does this increase the minimum extension, it means you can't focus on the view camera groundglass. That's all right in the case of an adapter to an SLR body, but they are particularly thick. This places the film so far from the swing and tilt axes that it must be a nuisance making readjustments after making one of these movements.

 

This may be the time for a re-introduction of the 35mm view camera, this time as an alternative back to fit on a camera designed for digital use.

 

If you examine the Monobar, you can see that it has numerous advantages to offset the loss of a large viewing screen and film. It is able to use any of the great variety of inexpensive films available in 35mm. A mere 12" rail provides an extension of six times "normal" focal length. A 4" X 5" with an equivalent extension would have a 36" long rail. It would, of course, offer monorail advantages to a backpacker. There are other advantages, as well.

 

There have been a few 35mm film holders which place the film at the front of the body. The holder for the Monobar was one of these. Another was made by the Keith Camera Co. of Los Angeles. It uses bulk film, so has to be loaded in a darkroom. It will take a very long length, but you can also load it with short lengths pulled out of the usual cassette, since no feed spool is necessary. It attaches to a 4" X 5" in the usual Graflok manner. I have one of these and will send it to you on a one year loan if you pay the shipping costs and will provide the Forum with your comments on its use. Within the year you should be able to locate another one, or an equivalent, if you decide you like using it.

 

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Hi, I have a KI Monobar (with Apo Lanthar) and several rare Advocate cameras for auction:

The camera details, including a Monobar can be found at :

 

http://www.specialauctionservices.com/large/cm090317/page002.html

 

and a Voigtländer APO-Lanthar f/4.5 150mm Lens (From the monobar) at:

 

http://www.specialauctionservices.com/large/cm090317/page004.html

 

I would be grateful if you can forward this Email onto anyone you might think who would be interested in any of the items.

 

My optimism for a ‘good result’ tends to rise and fall so I need all the help I can muster!

Or you could buy a Nikon body and a set of PB4 bellows. The bellows has a tilt/shift front that allows most lens movements to be used with a variety of lenses longer than around 90mm.<p>Here's a t/s shot with a 118mm enlarging lens on the PB4 bellows with Nikon D7200 attached.<p>But using a pathetic 24x36mm piece of film in a view camera capable of taking a much larger sheet of film. Why would you?

Joe, are you joking?

 

I've had a PB-4 since 1970. I'm sorry but its so-called movements are a cruel joke. The front standard will pivot around its vertical axis. That's swing. It will slide from side to side. That's shift. If you want tilt or rise/fall, put the thing on its side. It is no substitute for a view camera.

 

There are bellows for 35 mm cameras that offer full movements. More cruel jokes. Like the PB-4 they're useless with short lenses at reasonable distances.

Or he could buy one of the larger Novoflex bellows with movements and, with the appropriate adapter, put it on any 35 mm, medium format or digital camera with interchangeable lenses and use lenses from any of those cameras plus 39mm Leica thread enlarging lenses. And some of these bellows have both front and rear movements!

Dan, a view camera's standards won't go close enough to use short lenses with a 35mm camera strapped to the back of it either. But you can reverse a small diameter enlarging lens inside the PB-4 bellows to use a shorter focal length.<p><br>Though as I suggested; if you have a view/technical/monorail 5"x4" camera, why not just load it with 5x4 film?

Most, not all. A Technikardan can get some very wide lenses on it and a Techno or an M679 can use a 28mm lens! Although they would all need the wide angle bellows.

FWIW-- The Nikon PB-4 bellows can be used with short lenses as a way of getting tilts and shifts on 35mm film,

 

From Linhof's specification the minimum bellows distance of the Technikardan 45s is 70mm.<p>

Minimum extension of Nikon's PB-4 bellows is 43mm.<p>

In both cases only shift/rise/fall would be possible, since there's no room between standards for tilt. <p>

However the real point is that the depth of a 35mm camera body prevents the use of wide lenses with infinity focus, as well as restricting the amount of lens movement without vignetting. Not to mention the low technical quality obtainable from 35mm film.

You do realize, I hope, that Linhof offered some recessed boards for their cameras including ones that are very deeply recessed. You also have to check the flange focal length distance of various extreme wide angle lenses from, say Rodenstock, if that FFL distance is long enough and a properly deep board is used then the minimum distance between the standards is not important.

Also, when the TK is closed in travel position the standards, even with the normal bellows, are so close together that a 47mm SA can be mounted and focused at infinity. We know this because one of the first owners of the original TK, shortly after we introduced it in the USA, bought it to take hand held wide angle photographs with that lens with the camera in the folded position. Worked fine for him.