35mm Lens and Leica M3

Yes, I know this has been asked before. I read the archives, and

wanted to sum a bit all the options I have seen in various posts, and

see if I can get something clear out of it.

 

The thing is that I recently got a summilux 35mm, user grade, for a

real nice price, problem: M3 does not have any 35mm frames.

 

As with any Leica lens I expect very high quality, even so not as

much as the highly praised Asph version. I think it�s really tiny

half the size of the DR Cron. And has a lot to offer.

 

Solutions I have found in archives:

 

 

1.35mm separate viewfinder � Clumsy solution, 2 step focus / framing

action and a step out of compactness given by the lens. Yet more

troublesome if using the 15mm CV lens.

 

2.Tape off frame illuminator window so the viewfinder is clear from

all frames and have roughly the same coverage as a 35mm lens � nice

option, but can be a hassle if you change 35-50 lenses frequently,

taping in and out the window.

 

3.Use the outer 50mm frame area as is with no tape � till now it�s

what I have done, but I find it confusing and sometimes forget and

just frame as if it was the 50mm lens.

 

4.Changing all the VF/RF system for a 0.85 or 0.72 system � Nice but

expensive, and loosing the 0.91 mag so nice for the 50mm lens. Added

to getting the RF flare problem.

 

 

Solutions I have not seen but wonder if they�re possible:

 

1.Including a 35mm frame in the existing 0.91 finder. I know it would

be on the limits, but maybe usable.

 

2.Changing the mask to an M2 mask with only 35-50-90, once again the

35 frame would be on its limits.

 

3.Putting a 50 mask that would turn off when a 35 lens is on, so the

finder would be clear with no need to mask it, in opposition to the

always in finder 50mm frame of the M3.

 

4.Changing the entire RF/VF for an M2/4 system would be expensive but

the quality would be maintained.

 

 

 

I have no knowledge about VF/RF mechanics therefore my question if

these last 4 ideas are even likely to work out.

Cheers.

5. Trade the 35 'lux for a 35 'cron with eyes. Maybe the 'lux was made with eyes too, I'm not sure.

 

6. There are people who are looking for the M3 finder, since it is no longer available from Leica. Find one and trade a .85 finder for it, since they are available new from Leica as a replacement part. I would check with Sherry Krauter or DAG.

 

7. The M3 finder is the best one Leica ever made. I would carefully consider whether you really want to get rid of it.

Keep framing with the outer edges of the vf. If you happen to err and frame with the 50

framelines, you can always crop later. The other way around would be a problem. I should

know, I did it with a V/C 50 Nokton on a CLE, using the 40 framelines. Result: headless people.

;-)

I went through most everything you are mentioning now. I had a couple of nice M3s, but wanted to use 35mm lenses easily. My most used work-arounds were to use the frame out to the metal, and to use 35mm lenses with eyes. This was before Cosina was in the rangefinder game so finding inexpensive 35mm shoe-mounted finders was not as easy. I never gave any thought to exchanging the finder's internal guts.

 

Using the normal finder out to the metal was OK at distance, but you do lose the floating frame-lines, which compensate for parallax up close.

 

Using the 35mm lenses with eyes was functional. Yes, it gave a good 35mm frame in the M3, and it kept the floating frame-lines, but it was not without additional bulk. In my opinion it took the previously petite M body to a larger size than I wished to use. Another thing is that I had two of these and neither was hazy, but it still degraded the clean view of my M3's clear, bright finder. The image on-film was fine, but the camera was not as fun to use with the eyes.

 

For these reasons, I went to the M2 and M4 bodies for my 35mm lenses. The M3 is great for what it offers, especially if you like 50mm lenses, but there is a "best" tool for every job, and the M3 is not best if you like the 35mm focal length. I think that if you are serious about having a technician take apart and re-build the internal finder of your M3, you are talking about the kind of money that could put you in the ball-park for a proper Leica camera that al ready supports the 35mm lens.

 

The only thing that bothered me after getting my first M2 was that I waited so long to do it. It was a joy to use with a 35mm lens.

Diego: The only problem with trading for a 35 Lux with eyes would be that you would once again be losing some compactness, since the lens would now require a larger compartment in the camera bag when being stored off-camera.

 

I think the only solution for you is to aquire a second Leica. You now need an M2 or an M4 or M4-P (assuming you don't need a built-in meter) to use the Summilux on. This, of course, will do nothing for compactness, either, since you will also need a larger bag that can hold two cameras ;<). Well, you could carry just one camera at a time.

 

This advice is coming from a Leicaholic, and should therefore be evaluated in that light.

Just use the whole finder and if the subject is visible in there, it will be on the negative. You'll get used to seeing past the 50 box. Leica rangefinders always give you more on the film than you see in the finder box anyway. Don't even think about ripping into the finder--very expensive because you have to change out the whole finder. I've heard it would cost $500 or more to do this. You could pick up a user M2 for not much more.

I shoot mostly with M2's and the 35 is my normal lens, but I have an M3 body for longer lenses and I usually keep a 35mm finder on it. Once in awhile I'll get to the end of a roll on the M2 and do a quick lens switch, putting the 35 on the M3. Once you get used to shooting with the external finder it becomes something you don't much think about. In most situations it really isn't important to keep chasing focus with a 35, depth of field will cover you in all but the dimmest light.

1) It is not possible to put a 35mm frameline into a M3 finder

 

2) The M2 mask is of a different design and the different magnification of the M3 finder would not give framelines that correspond to any particular lens.

 

3) The M3 finder displays the 50 framelines all the time. It is not possible to have the lens turn it off.

 

4) The M3 is a much sought after camera so it makes more economic sense to either trade for an M2 or buy another M2/4 body for your 35 lens needs.

 

What should you do? Beats me, you will have to decide for yourself what is the best route to go.

Thank you all for your opinions, I see finder modifications are quite out of the question, thats one thing I wanted to know.

 

Regarding the M2, yes it would be an option, but really am not sure I want 2 bodies. I think I`ll keep up as for now, and if I really really find myself liking the 35mm I`ll consider the switch.

 

Till now 35 lenses were kind of love - hate thing, use them for a while, then put them away. I just wanted to see if I could do a little modification while in CLA. any goggles or finder make the camera to big. I`ll try the tape trick.

 

thanks again

I used an M3 for >10yrs with an 35mm 'lux. That was my 1st Leica and I had a

great deal of affection for it; I was loathe to part with it, but finally did for the

35mm VF reasons, as it is the lens I use most often. If you dont wear glasses,

you can approximate the 35mm fld by extending your borders to the edge of

the viewfinder. I've traded a bunch of cameras over the years, and my M4 is

more suitable to the task, but that M3 is the only camera I've had seller's

remorse over.

The M3 was made for the 50mm lens. The M2 for the 35mm lens.

It's time for you to buy an M2 or trade your M3 for one.

You really like the camera and the lens--right?

Why don't you buy a 35mm Leitz external finder? Try it for a while. It's really a

nice way of seeing. They're very clean -- no rangefinder just the 'picture'

so-to-speak.

 

I have no idea how hard they are to locate (SBLOO) but I'm sure you'd have

no trouble selling it if it didn't work. I used an external finder for my 28mm

when I was using it on my M2 & M4. I had a friend with an M4-2 who still used

the external finder for his 35 Summicron cause he like the view. Ofcourse I

use the external finder with my 21. You might try it and like it.

#2 from the archives:

 

Depends on what and how you shoot. In the last year and half I have been trying to whre possible use zone focusing and let the depth of field carry the day. To me this is one of teh joys of RF use.

Buy a CV 35mm brightline finder for under $150. That's what I did.

Now I can use a 35mm lens with all my M3 cameras<div></div>

For many years my only RF camera was an M2 with a first version 35mm 'Cron. In the early 1980s I added a 90mm 'Cron and thought I was set for life. But a few years ago I had the opportunity to buy a lovely late M3 w/ 50mm DR 'Cron at a great price, so I went for it. This turned me into a 50mm addict and the M2 & 35mm fell out of use.

 

To satisfy my wide angle fancy I bought a 28mm (Cosina Voigtländer f/1.9), which I use on the M3 with the appropriate Voigt external finder. I quickly got used to focusing with the internal finder and framing with the external one. I often zone focus with this lens anyway, which cuts down on switching between finders.

 

I suspect you wouldn't have much trouble adapting to an external 35mm finder. And you could always use the entire internal finder as an approximate 35mm frame in a pinch, provided you don't wear glasses (I do so this doesn't work for me).

 

-Dave-

Leica offered two solutions to this problem.

 

1) the 35 mm finder SBLOO (there are other Leica and non-Leica finders that have 35 mm graming also).

 

2) Although the M3 was not made for 35 mm lenses, there were a number of 35 mm lenses made for the M3 with the RF-VF attachment. These include the 35/3.5 (M3 version) Summaron, the 35/2.8 (M3) Summaron, the 35/2.0 (M3) Summicron, and the 35/1.4 (M3) Summilux.

 

Approximate prices:

 

35/3.5 (M3) $ 250-300

 

35/2.8 (M3) $ 450-500

 

35/2.0 (M3) $ 600-1100 (condition dependent, these are valued by collectors)

 

35/1.4 (M3) $ 1200-1500 (this is a rare lens)

 

I think the easiest thing to do is get a 35 mm BL type finder. The best ever made is the SBLOO by Leitz (this is really terrific, but expensive). The CV version is less expensive.