35mm Framelines on M2

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by yammerman, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. I recently aquired an M2 and have been mostly shooting with a 50mm which has
    been great. Today I took out the 35mm Summaron f3.5 (with goggles) to see if
    the 35mm view my suit me better as the framelines appeared to fill the
    viewfinder I had assumed that as the frame lines moved to the edge what I saw
    in the viewfinder was 100% coverage. Having composed accordingly I now find the
    negs appear cropped from the view I saw through the finder.

    Is that what I should expect and should I allow for it when shooting?

    Thanks in advance

  2. Not exactly sure. I know that the goggles are designed to magnify 50mm framelines, not 35mm framelines. But maybe you already factored that in.
  3. I would try a lens without the goggles.

    My M2 was fairly accurate - not perfect.

    Good luck.
  4. I think this lens should activate the 50mm framelines on M cameras and goggles should
    then "compress" 35mm view into them. You can tell by the position of frame-preview lever
    what frame is activated.
  5. My understanding is that a 35mm lens with goggles gives the same view/framelines as a 50mm lens, e.g. on an M3, where the 50mm framelines are almost full frame, a 35mm lens with goggles uses the same framelines (as the 50). So on an M2, I would expect that a 35mm lens with goggles should bring up the same framelines as a 50mm lens, i.e. considerably less than full frame. If this didn't happen, I would suspect that the lens didn't engage the frame selection correctly. If it did, and you ignored it, and just used the whole frame to compose, that was your mistake. If you use a non-goggled 35mm lens on an M2, then it should select the normal 35mm framelines, which are closer to the full frame. I don't think that you can take the goggles off a 35mm goggled lens and have the rangefinder focus correctly.
  6. the google are made for an M3 VF with 0.92 magnification and has nothing to do with frame
    line, so if you put it on your M2 VF 0.72 you just not gonna get anything good and maybe a
    28mm frame line or whatever combination it will create....
  7. ...but for sure not what you getting on the negs,,,
  8. Hi

    Thanks to everyone for the quick responses.

    Roby's reply makes some sense as when I take off the goggles the framelines do come in slightly. I had thought the goggles were needed as the focus is locked without them. If i manually push the button on the lens I have found I can move the focus. This doesn't seem a very usable solution. I think I will have to go and purchase the 35mm f2 I have been hankering after as I did prefer the wide angle and I'm assuming it will operate the framelines correctly.

    Thanks again all very helful
  9. You'll find that at normal working distances (8' to infinity), the goggles will produce virtually 100% coverage of your 35mm lens on the negative.
  10. An M2 has a viewfinder that is wider than an M3. The M2 has framelines for 35, 50 and 90mm. The M3 has a narrower field and has framelines for 50, 90 and 135mm lenses.
    When you fit the 35 mm, don't fit the goggles, just use the largest set of framelines that fit in the viewfinder. If it doesn't bring up the correct lines, the whole view through the finder is just wider than 35mm.

    If you fit the goggles, you are widening the correct view to more like a 28mm equivalent. When you fit the goggles to an M3 (with the narrower field), you are widening a 50mm view to a 35mm one, which then gives you the correct view for your lens.
  11. Check that the lens is engaging the correct set of framelines. With the goggled lens on the camera, check the position of the frameline selector lever. It should be straight up and down, not canted left or right. If it is, then the 50mm frameline has been selected, and the goggles will cause the 35mm field of view to appear within that space. But if the selector lever is angled over toward the rewind end of the camera, then the 35mm framelines are being selected. In combination with the goggles that would lead to an excessively wide field of view, which might account for your problem.
  12. The goggled Summaron will only rangefinder focus accurately with the goggles on.
  13. Roby has it right!

    The frame lines in an M2 are for 35mm, 50mm and 90mm lenses. You do NOT use goggles with a 35mm lens and the M2 - the goggles are for use with an M3, which otherwise has 50/90/135mm frames.
  14. Hi

    Thanks again for the answers. The 35mm Summaron came with the M2 so maybe the previous owner just made a mistake when he bought it. It does seem to be the goggles that force the framelines out further I guess I'll sell to an M3 user.

    Maybe Santa's got an 35mm f2 ASPH in his sack for me.


  15. There is no reason to sell this lens as it will work perfectly well on your M2.

    Your lens can be used with goggles on any Leica M body, from the M1/M2/M3 right up to the M6, M7 and even the M8. The camera's viewfinder magnification is not relevant, but you must use the correct framelines in the viewfinder.

    The Summaron with goggles brings up the 50mm frame lines in the viewfinder. The goggles then give the field of view of the 35mm focal length, but within the 50mm frame lines in the viewfinder. The goggles also ensure that the rangefinder works correctly.

    Confusing? Not when you get used to it. Just remember that when using the Summaron with goggles on any Leica body, you must frame the image using the 50mm frame lines in the viewfinder.
  16. Tony - that just doesn't happen for me unless there is a way to manually set the framelines. When I put the 35mm on the framelines automatically come up correctly (but focus is locked) and when I attached the goggles the framelines move to the very edge of the viewfinder. I will probably just guestimate the frame when I use that lens until I can replace it.
  17. I own a Leica M2 and a goggled version of the Summaron 35 mm f/ 2,8 that i mount also on the MP and M5. The 35 mm goggled versions (Summaron and Summicron) are dedicated to the Leica M3, lacking in 35 mm frameline. When the 35 mm goggled versions are mountend on the Leica M3, they engage the 50 mm frameline, enlarged to 35 mm frameline by goggles. The same situation happen with all Leica M, except the CL.
  18. I also use the googled Summarons (2.8 and 3.5) with both, M3 and M4. These lenses bring up the 50mm frame-lines on both cameras, and what is inside the 50mm frame-lines corresponds to the FOV of the 35mm lens. In case of the M4 the 50mm frame-line is narrower compared to the M3 (0.72x vs 0.91x) which makes it easier to see the 35mm FOV wearing eye-glasses.
  19. It sounds like the bayonet lug on the lens has been filed to bring up the 35mm framelines. This, of course, should not have been done. Maybe a previous owner thought they could use the lens, sans goggles, on an M2 or other M with 35mm framelines. And so filed the lug to bring up the 35mm framelines. But you can't use this lens without the goggles, because it won't focus right. While anyone can file metal off, never the man's been born who can file it back on again. But perhaps (if and only if this is really the problem) someone could braze 2mm onto that lug. It would have to be done without distorting the mount from the heat involved.

    To see if it is what is going on, look at the leading edge of the bayonet lug that moves the frameline cam in the camera. Does it look filed upon? It is not the end of the lug that matters, it's the "leading edge" that actuates the cam as it rotates into position when fitting the lens to the camera. If it looks filed--brass showing through--then that is the problem.
  20. Hi Rob

    You might have something with that as I found brassing on one of the lens bayonet lugs. Is this what you mean? See link below.


  21. Phew.... i've read some other threads on this subject this evening and now have better understanding of whats going on. I now realise the end of Robs first reply is where I'm at. With the goggles on the frame lever is over towards the rewind knob and thus giving me the erroneous view.

    The good news is I have printed out some of the negs that wheren't affected by the cropping issue and they have a great look to them. I reckon I can learn to allow for the excessive framing if it keeps produceing results as pleasing.

    I think I'm begining to realise how arcane the world of Leica can be...in a good way naturally.

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