# 35mm film, 135mm film confused !

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by atkinson_mr, Dec 1, 2005.

1. ### atkinson_mr

I only know that 2 film formats have the same size 24x36mm and they
are most popular in still film camera. The 24 and 36 are the heigh
and length of one film frame. So some one can explain me where are
from the dimension 35mm and 135mm. Thank in advance.

2. ### jordan_w.

There is no "135 mm". It's either "35 mm" or "135" (no mm). The "135" is just a serial number, really, in a series of film formats -- I think Kodak came up with the system -- among others there is 120, 116, 127, 110, 126, etc.

The image itself is 24x36mm, as you say. The width of the actual film from edge to edge is (I believe) 35mm.

3. ### basscheffers

35mm comes from the width of the strip of film - not the image.

And it's "135", not "135mm". It is actually centimeter; a roll of 36 exposures is, give or take,
135cm long. (36mm x 36, with some extra for leader and space between images)

4. ### basscheffers

Hmmm, Jordan could be right and 135cm is just a coincidence as "120" medium format film
certainly isn't 120cm when exposing 15 4.5cm frames on it!

5. ### gary evans

Jordan is right, 35mm is 35mm wide from edge to edge...

6. ### dennisprice

Check out this site on the history of Kodak roll film numbers:

http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/FilmHist.html

7. ### atkinson_mr

Ohoho, many thanks for your explication. It was realy as I ignored the different writing between 35mm film and 135 film.

And now I find another question. As you said 35mm is exactely the width of the film frame from edge to edge, then the image size can not exceed 35mm. So the film size 24x36mm is only a symblic of the format ratio 2:3 ? And the real size of a film frame is 24x35mm ?

8. ### richard_cochran

No, the actual frame size is 24mm x 36mm. Look at a negative and measure it. The film is 35mm across from one side to another, and the image uses 24mm out of those 35mm (the other 11mm are for the sprocket holes and surrounding area). The 36mm dimension of the frame is along the length of the film, not the width. The film is around 6 feet long, so there's plenty of room for multiple 36mm images.

9. ### dennisprice

Mr Atkinson, the image size is approximately 24 x 36 mm. If you don't happen to have a piece of processed 35mm film handy, the following site may help your understanding of the relationship between the image size and the film size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/135_film

10. ### charles_stobbs|3

And to confuse things further the standard movie projectors of the 30'w, 40's, 50', 60's etc ran the flm vertically so you were looking at Marilyn Monroe, Donald Duck etc. on an image blown up from 18 x 24mm farme size which is called half frame when used in a still camera.

11. ### oceanphysics

Nothing has changed: 35mm motion picture cameras/projectors still use the same film, still run it vertically. The size of the frame has not changed, though it's actually more like 21mm x 15mm (24x18 is the size of a silent frame). In fact that's usually cropped down even more, to 21x13 or 21x11, either in the camera or the projector, for a wider aspect ratio.

12. ### terence_spross|1

135 film is not 35mm exactly: measure it- it is 1 and 3/8 inch wide or 34.8mm wide!

The 135 size specification speciifes not only "35mm" wide film, but also the sproket size, the cassette and spool size including all the mechanical details.

35mm film W.K.L. Dickson (working for Edison on the motion picture project) worked closely with George Eastman and arrived at width of 1 and 3/8 inches in the year 1889. The sproket holes then were slightly smaller than they are now and facilitated feeding the film rapidly thru the camera with four holes per movie frame to accurately position it. The Eastman Company also worked to make the film more flexible. The film ran vertically in the motion picture cameras and later in still cameras that used the same film. the frame size was 18mmx24mm with 24mm across between the sprocket holes. This matched the frame size used in movies: four sprockets holes to a frame. When still cameras started using the film horizontally they exposed a wider image and were first called "double frame," 8 sproket holes to a frame, and then later "full frame." As the term "full frame" was accepted the term "half-frame" became used for the original still frame size.
There have been many other frame sizes including 18mm x 23mm, 17mm x 24mm but most are 18mm x 24mm used in "half-frame" camera. Examples include: the "Olympus Pen" in 1959, "Fujica Half" and "Canon Demi" in 1963, Soviet made "Agat 18". There have been camera back adapters for medium format cameras that allow 135 film to be used and examples can be found with various frame sizes including square 24mmx24mm.. The Nimslo stereo cameras four frames per photo were each 17.50 x 21.90mm, but most stereo cameras like the Kodak stereo of the 50s that used 135 film shot a pair of 22.65mm x 25mm on each photo. (In a pinch I've used my Stereo camera for single frames on negative film by moving a lens cap from on side to the other and pulling the double exposure release lever.)

As montioned by the oterh responders, by far the most popular still camera frame size is the standard 24mmx36mm, 8 sproket holes to a frame. This is the only size presently known by most photofinishers.

13. ### roger_hicks|1

Split 2-3/4 inch wide film (original 19th century Kodak size) in two and you get 1-3/8 inches, the original movie width.

Cheers

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)