35 Summicron V1 vs 4th Cron vs ASPH Dilemma

<p>Which should I keep or buy? 35 Summicron V1, V4, and ASPH chrome.<br>

In the past, the best 35mm lens I have used was a 35mm Summilux ASPH. It went up double the value so I've traded with other stuff. Too much value to keep.<br>

I have used 35 Lux asph on M8 and M9 and it has the best resolution and bokeh. So it's a bench mark here.<br>

For my purpose, I don't mind low contrast because on digital I can easily push up the contrast and on film, I only shoot B&W films.<br>

So I tested on Nex 7 (Cropped Sensor) on these lenses. So, I don't know the extreme edge resolution.<br>

35 Cron V1 Goggled and 35 Cron 4th (no longer have) and 35 Cron ASPH Chrome (being CLA'd)</p>

<p><strong>RESOLUTION TEST:</strong><br>

<strong><em>-35 V1 8 elements vs 4th Cron:</em></strong><br>

35 Cron V1 blows 4th Cron out of the water from f2 to all the way despite a glowy and less contrast at f2 but still sharper. Both centre or edge area. 4th Cron became somewhat on par at f8.<br>

<em>Cron V1 with 8 elements WINS.</em><br>

<strong>-35 V1 vs 35 ASPH:</strong><br>

V1 matches resolution on par or sometimes sharper than ASPH all the way from f2. Only at f2 it's glowy and low contrast. Great character though.<br>

<em>Cron V1 and ASPH tied</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

<strong>BOKEH TEST:</strong><br>

No direct comparison. I've only tested bokeh on Cron V1 and Summaron 2.8 both goggled side by side. Both tied in res.<br>

<strong>Cron V1</strong> Bokeh is beautiful. It's so creamy and from sharp to blurry is smooth. At f8 the background is much sharper than Summaron. The tree leaves look very clean and soft when out of focused. Great for Landscape. <br>

<strong>Summaron 2.8</strong> is harsh and gives double rings or repeats same shape around the main shapes. The tree leaves look very busy.<br>

<strong>Cron 4th</strong>, from my memory it looked busy and gives double rings or repeats same shape around the main shape. Same as Summaron 2.8. The tree leaves looked very busy.</p>

<p><strong>DILEMMA:</strong><br>

What I want is 35 Lux asph or better. Too expensive now! and too heavy and bulky.<br>

What I want is 35 Summicron V1 8 element without GOGGLE. Too expensive. Very compact and very light.<br>

What I have is 35 Summicron V1 8 element GOGGLED. Funny looking goggle and look bulky but very light. Just a tiny bit more heavy than 4th cron.<br>

What I have is 35 Summicron ASPH Silver Chrome. The best so far and expensive. Very heavy. Twice as heavy as 4th cron.</p>

<p><strong>CHOICES:</strong></p>

<ol>

<li>Should I sell both V1 and Chrome ASPH and get <strong>4th cron</strong> and be happy? <strong><em>Pros:</em></strong> The most compact lens. and <strong><em>cons:</em></strong> Least resolution.</li>

<li>Should I sell both V1 and Chrome ASPH and get BLACK ASPH? <strong><em>Pros:</em></strong> The most resolution lens. <strong><em>Cons:</em></strong> Not so compact but medium weight.</li>

</ol>

<p>I just bought ASPH silver chrome and didn't realize it is much heavier than black ASPH. <strong>Trade anyone?</strong><br>

The ASPH silver chrome looks amazing on Chrome camera and also great on black body as well. Just put a black lens hood on it.<br>

4th Cron is hyped up way too much than what it's worth. It cost almost as much as ASPH.</p>

<strong>What would you do if you were in my shoe?</strong>

<p>Thanks!</p>

 

<p>I no longer have 4th crons.</p>

<p>Photos</p><div></div>

<p>I use Luigi half case on M body and I can not take off or put in V1 cron lens with the Luigi case because of the goggle hitting the grip. I really want to keep it.<br>

Oh, by the way, I use these Leica lenses on Nex 7 as well. It's kind of look funny the goggled lens on. I love Nex 7 for letting me use 50mm DR Cron.</p>

<p>I have all the lenses you have mentioned, except the Summicron ASPH. I have not noticed any background harshness with the Summaron or the Version IV Summicron. A test published several years ago in the <em>Viewfinder </em>showed the Summaron to have very high resolution. Relatively reecent lenses such as the Version IV are designed for good contrast, with resolution a secondary priority. This is because contrast contributes more to the impression of sharpness than does resolving power. The latter is more important for aerial photo mapping and scientific purposes; less important in pictorial photography. However, it sounds like you are not happy with Summaron or the version IV. And it sounds like you are partial to the version I, but want one without goggles. So I think selling one or two lenses you don't want in order to fund a version I is an option for you.</p>

<p>My 2 cents - Keep what you will use and get rid of the rest. Buy if you think you will achieve a dramatic difference. Personally, over the years I've typically kept a Leica lens at least 4 years before making the type of decision you're dealing with. Sometimes I've switched for the wrong reasons and regretted the move. Often, however, the new purchase didn't dramatically enhance my results, and I would have been better served keeping what I had. I still regret selling my 35mm Summaron, which I had for almost 25 years, for the newer Summicron ASPH; the latter was razor sharp, but I personally liked the rendering of many subjects by the Summaron.</p>

<p>I should've use the description term as "not soft" instead of "harsh".<br /> 4th cron and Summaron are fine lenses but I've always found the 4th cron has busy bokeh on tree background but V1 is creamy soft. I'm just knit picking here in comparison with v1.<br /> All of these lenses are a great performers.<br /> A clean V1 8 elements sometimes go for $3500 to 4500. Crazy!<br /> A clean 4th cron go around $1800 to 2000.<br /> A clean ASPH go around $2500 to 2700</p>

<p>Maybe I should just trade Silver Chroms ASPH to a Black ASPH and done with it.</p>

What about a Zeiss Biogon? I love my C Biogon 2.8 and prefer it to the v4 Summicron I have.

<p>Jun you already have a 35 1.4 asph??. Why not just keep it, isn't that a great lens? </p>

<p>I had a Summicron v1 (8-element) with goggles, just like yours. It was fully serviced. However, the goggles lower the viewing contrast through the camera finder, and to me the images were not superior to a Summaron 35 2.8 that I acquired. So, I sold the v1. In my mind, it seems to be over-rated. If collectors want them, then great!</p>

<p>I do also have the chrome 35mm Summicron ASPH. It is a dense little lens, but when I had a black one to compare with, I find that the black lenses tend to chip or wear on the high points of the knurling. If you prefer black, that's fine. But, as Leica keeps cutting back on what lenses they make in chrome, you'll find one day that you can't get your chrome lens back if you sell it.</p>

<p>If I want a lighter lens, I just use the Summaron instead of the ASPH.</p>

<p><strong>My quest for holy grail of 35mm lens. Here are my brief assessment.</strong><br>

<strong>35/1.4 asph</strong> (306.7g)- <em>Sold it!</em> The image it produced was superb. Albeit big and heavy for a Leica.<br>

<strong>35/2 4th</strong> - <em>Sold it!</em> It was my most compact but not the best. I've had two over the years and it's way over hyped now. Known as "King of Bokeh" but I never liked it's bokeh.<br>

<strong>35/2 ASPH</strong> Chrome(340g)- <em>I just bought</em>. The best compromise between size, speed and quality.<br>

Black (253g)<br>

<strong>35/2 V1 8 elements</strong> (goggled)- <em>Was going to sell after purchase of ASPH.</em> The best classic rendering and extremely high resolution lens. On par or better than ASPH. I love it's bokeh. This lens should have the crown for having best bokeh.<br>

<strong>35/2.8 Summaron</strong> (goggled) - Sold it! The image quality is on par with V1. At f2.8 V1 cron beats it.<br>

Thanks Robert! I agree with you that the goggle lowers contrast a bit but still have enough contrast. Just make sure your rangefinder is contrasty. Maybe I should just use chrome ASPH for a while and get used to it's weight and see.<br>

35/2 ASPH chrome is <strong>340g</strong> and 35/1.4 ASPH black is <strong>306.7g</strong>. 35/2 4th is <strong>156g</strong><br>

So, no wonder the small ASPH chrome felt heavy. It's heavier than 35 Lux ASPH.</p>

<p>Yes, the Summaron (Non-goggled) is a good candidate too.</p>

<p><strong>35/2 V4</strong> is only 156g</p>

I just purchased Summaron f2.8 non-goggled version with clean glass for less than half the cost of 4th cron.

Looking through all the photos I took, there are hardly much photos shot at f2, so Summaron should do just fine. It' much sharper than 4th

cron. You can get cut with Summaron. Anybody who uses Summaron 2.8 would know how sharp it is.

As sharp as ASPH and more. It's as compact as 4th cron and twice sharper especially the edge (on Nex 7) and it seems that bokeh is

somewhat similar to 4th cron. I just sold Summaron with goggle a few weeks ago, so I know it's optical quality.

 

This Summaron would look fine on Sony Nex 7. I really like Nex 7 for letting me use 50Cron DR even for close up attachment. This 50

cron DR won't work on M8 and M9 I used to have. I have the latest DR and it's sharper than current 4th or 5th but just a little soft on

edge. I found M8 and M9 handling a bit clunky especially the shutter. I like Nex sound better. Saved a bunch.

 

I like vintage Leica lenses for black and white films.

 

Thanks for the advice on Summaron and I finally got the winner and save a ton of money.

 

Thanks all for your input!

<p>Hello Jun,<br>

I'm glad you went with the Summaron 35 2.8. I have the non-goggled LTM version. It is nice and light.</p>

<p>The f/3.5 version of the Summaron is even smaller and lighter, but has a vintage imaging characteristic.</p>

<p>Currently, I have the two Summarons in LTM (3.5, 2.8), and the Summicron ASPH - also in LTM.</p>

<p>Thanks Robert!<br /> I really like Summaron 2.8 for it's super high resolution.<br /> I saw today Mintish 4th Cron with box listed for $2700 locally. Wow! That's crazy.<br /> I bought my first 4th Cron for $800 about 10 years ago. Sold it for $1200 three years ago to upgrade to Lux ASPH ($2400). I sold Lux ASPH for $4000 last year to afford M9. Then I got mintish 4th Cron again.<br /> The Leica lenses have doubled up in about a couple of years. But this is insane.<br /> The Summaron is under valued and 4th cron is way over valued. Compared to Summaron, 4th cron is blurry and fuzzy as if you added a Gaussian blur all over. I'm serious. I've gone through two 4th crons and tested on M8 and M9 and Nex 7.</p>

<p>Robert, you should get Lux ASPH and you will be surprized. At f 1.4 whatever you have focused is nice sharp and then goes into creamy blurry. I think it has the best bokeh. Crons and Summarons can not touch it cause they don't offer but Summaron compares pretty well in resolutions from f2.8.<br /> Lux ASPH pre-fle goes upward of $4000</p>

<p>The 1979+ version IV and many former Leitz optics of the same focal length are limited in the sense that at widest apertures they do not give high resolution and contrast towards the outer limits of the frame, parameters which are much bettered by the ASPH models (and possibly the 8 element version I, which I confess I do not know); however, for a small, light and compact lens (the raison d'être in my mind for the RF-VF 35mm size cameras) the highly compact version IV black model (156 grammes!) is a superb user lens, making the film M and it compact and almost pocketable. I have always found the rendition and bo-ke of the version IV (alas, sold, but now replaced in my kit by the larger f2 ASPH) at a sufficiently high level for the print sizes (well under 16 x 20) that I would normally attempt with a 35mm camera. In normal usage (8 x 12 inch prints) the higher Q/P ratio of the Voigtlander classic 35mm f2.5 lens maintains this compacity and allows a very good rendition, especially in B&W. All for about 2 or 3 hundred dollars! The main "albatross" of all the optics mentioned and the small format is the high loss of tonal differences of an image when we speak of prints above 8 or 10X magnification. Until the sensors of digital cameras are vastly improved, if ever, what is the point of $4000 plus optics on a small body? </p>

<p>Yeah, I agree. What's point of $4000 plus lens? What's why people buy it then regret it and sell. Just could not justify the price. I've tried New 50 Lux asph and it's nice and sharp but not for me at that $4000 plus lens. My DR 50 matches the resolution in the centre and I much prefer a bit soft in the corner. I would've add the softning and darkening in the PS anyway.<br>

So I'm keeping my lenses around $1000 and still matches or surface the quality of the much newest and expensive lenses.<br>

50 DR and Summaron 2.8 should do it and no more burden of worrying about scuffs or stolen. People would think it's very old anyway.<br>

Here is the one I just bought and it's on it's way.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p> Summaron</p><div></div>

<p>I have had and used all those lenses you mention. I kept and use the black summicron asph. For me it is the best of all the tradeoffs, a beautiful lens at a decent size and weight. Good luck! </p>

<p>I agree with you on ASPH being overall best in sharpness and mid-size and all but Summaron is half the price. <br>

I'll live with Summaron a while and see what happens.<br>

Thanks!</p>

<p>Ken Rockwell nailed it as below.<br>

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f28.htm<br>

"<strong >At f/2.8</strong></p>

<p align="left">Sharp center; sharp but lower-contrast corners.</p>

<p align="left">Corners have high-definition cores surrounded by contrast-reducing veiling, unlike poorer lenses that simply get soft and smeary in the corners.</p>

<p align="left">This LEICA lens has lower contrast in the corners, but almost as much resolving power as it does in the center.</p>

<p align="left">If you want to shoot at f/2.8 all the time, the current <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f2-asph.htm">35mm f/2 ASPH</a> and <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f14-asph.htm">35mm f/1.4 ASPH</a> lenses are better.</p>

<p align="left"> </p>

<p align="left"><strong>At f/4</strong></p>

<p align="left">It's really sharp all over, although the corners are slightly softer.</p>

<p align="left">In the corners, the <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f2-asph.htm">35mm f/2 ASPH</a> and <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f14-asph.htm">35mm f/1.4 ASPH</a> lenses are better.</p>

<p align="left"> </p>

<p align="left"><strong>At f/5.6</strong></p>

<p align="left">Sharp all over, only a tiny bit less in corners.</p>

<p align="left">It's really, really sharp, which is why you buy LEICA.</p>

<p align="left">It seems to be the same or better throughout most of the image than the <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f2-asph.htm">35mm f/2 ASPH</a> and <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/35mm-f14-asph.htm">35mm f/1.4 ASPH</a>."</p>

I had the same result with Ken Rockwell's.

<strong>At f5.6 in centre it's touch sharper than Cron ASPH and Lux ASPH.</strong>

<p>4th cron is (5.5oz) 156g<br>

Summaron is (6 oz) 170g</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>I've got the Summaron and I put in on the black paint Leica M2. It's very sexy.</p><div></div>

<p>Dressed up with a leather jacket and a hat.</p><div></div>

<p>Man, am I simple. All I ever did was swapping my well-worn 35/4th for a (un-)used 2/35A (black) way back in 2003 (well-informed as I was).<br>

No film wasted on "test shots" that would all come out the same because of a crappy scanner that makes 35v1 pics look like those from a 35A.<br>

No time wasted on buying and selling and then rebuying male jewellery or Italian jewellery cases.<br>

Or being fearful about my back breaking because of a heavy 35cron on my Leica - hell!<br>

Is that a purely invective post?<br>

Probably.<br>

But sorely needed!</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>What would you do if you were in my shoe?</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Are you one-legged, Jun?!?<br>

If I were in your shoeS (luckily I am still two-legged) I'd sell all my Leica stuff and invest into an extended therapy.<br>

(The most important step is to admit being a narcistic Leica-holic; from then on it's all downhill, ask your therapist.)</p>