25% failure rate with 5DMk2's in Antarctica

<p>I was about to order a new 5DMk2 when I came across this recent editors essay on his recent group trip to Antarctica:<br>

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/antarctica-2009-worked.shtml<br>

The numbers of Canon to Nikon was 2:1. There were no failures with any Nikon gear. Now I am getting cold feet. Has anyone found poor weather sealing causing failures with their Mk2's, like these guys did?</p>

 

<p>The 5D series doesn't have real weather sealing. It's marketed as a studio cam and gentleman amateur plaything, and not a bulletproof 1D series. Why would you wanna shoot with in in salt spray, rain and wave action? That's like swimming nekid in Arctic waters. You're gonna freeze your nads off and fast.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the D700 is actually seriously weather resistant and you pay a lot extra for it. However 70% of the 77 shooters were using Canon, 26 of which were 5DII, and the Nikons only accounted for 30%. Not a very statistically fair accounting. Unless you're planning on shooting in salt spray, rain and wave action, I'd say you're safe using the 5DII for studio and typical gentleman amateur activities.</p>

<p>I just returned from shooting in Africa for a couple weeks. No problems at all with my 5DII. I was in the bush the entire time. Hot climate, more dust than you could shake a stick at... No problemo. I didn't even get any dust on the sensor with multiple lens changes daily! Get it. You'll love it</p>

<p>I read that report and it had me a bit concerned at first, too. I have had a 5DMkII since just after they came out, and have so far traveled with it twice, once to Taiwan and once to Spain. I have not had one lick of trouble with it, and have already shot more than 4000 frames on it. I am planning to take it to South Africa with me in May and was concerned that the harsher environment there might trigger the troubles that those units in Antarctica suffered from, though the comment made by another poster about his success with the camera there gives me some comfort. <br>

Incidentally I was very surprised at how many 5DMkIIs I saw in Spain; seems like every other Canon shooter had one. </p>

<p>I am a Canon shooter. I must say that no matter how you look at this report, it is a complete disaster for Canon. Yes, the 5DII is not weather sealed, but even some of the 1D series cameras used, failed. None of the Nikons had any issues. This is the worst marketing message for Canon. If the Nikons can take it, why not the Canons?</p>

<p>Thanks so far.<br>

I was considering the Canon because of two things: The L series lens line up seems to offer a bit more choice, and the images seem nicer. I don't really care about brand. But I do expect that as the 5DMk2 is the second to top body in the Canon range, it would be as well made and sealed as the D700.<br>

Lets see who else writes in.</p>

<p>I don't agree, Juergen.</p>

<p>The Canons are being directly compared to the D700, which is another kind of camera entirely: the 1D failures might well have happened anywhere (I've never seen any low temperature/bad weather specific 1D ERR 99 reports, for example).</p>

<p>The clear message of the article is that the <strong>weather-sealed</strong> D700 is more robust in (<em>very!</em> ) bad weather than the <strong>non weather-sealed </strong> 5D Mk II - that can't be a surprise to anyone, surely.</p>

<p>Frankly it hardly merits a mention, IMHO - how could it possibly be otherwise?<strong><br /> </strong></p>

<p>I find this report a bit puzzling. It says of the Antarctic weather <em><strong>'Temperatures were moderate, ranging from about +2C to -3C during our two weeks at the Peninsula. Since it was -30C in Toronto for a few days during that time, Antarctica was positively balmy by comparison.'</strong></em><br>

So why don't 25% of all 5DII s used outdoors in really cold places like Toronto pack up? What is magic about the -3deg in Antartica that kills cameras as opposed to -3 and below worldwide? I have not heard of reports of a 25% failure rate in cold, wet salty, hot, humid etc so this is a bit of a puzzle.</p>

<p>Here is my 5D experience,. I have used my 5D in all sorts of environments that were colder (record -14 C in a blizzard , wetter (a day in the spray of a large waterfall) , saltier (a day on a wind blown beach with sand everywhere) than the environment reported here for quite long periods. It has never given me any problems.</p>

<p>Can any 5D or 5DII users who live in cold / wet / sandy / salty / hunid climates comment?</p>

<p>I will be sure to take Nikon on my next trip to Antartica! I recommend everyone planning a trip there do the same.</p>

 

<p>Don't put much merit into that article. First off out of 77 photographers 50% were Canon and almost half of them 5DII. So just by law of averages more Canon's would fail then anything else. Also three of six came back to life, meaning three failed completely. He also stated how his Song A900 worked flawlessly, well he was only one with that camera. So think about this, what if he was only one with a Canon 5DII and there was 26 other people with Sony A900's. Since out of the 26 with 5DII, 20 people had no problems at all, if he had a 5II that performed flawlessly like other 20 photographers did and then 5-6 of the 26 Sony users had problems, what would observation he then. 5DII is not full weather sealed body like 1D series and shouldn't be expected to hold up in any kind of weather. I been shooting with Canon cameras now for about 10 years and never owned a pro series body and never had one problem with weather and I have shot is some pretty cold, drizzly days in Oregon and Utah. When taking care about camera, when shooting outdoors in real cold weather, never bring it directly back into warm humid type climate. Which maybe those 6 did with 5DII bodies.</p>

<p>"But I do expect that as the 5DMk2 is the second to top body in the Canon range, it would be as well made and sealed as the D700."</p>

<p>Point of pedantry, it's actually the third to top, unless canon have dropped the 1D mkIII, which is the same position occupied by the D700.<br>

I will have a look at the article. I wonder what lenses were used on the 5d mk2s and if they were rated as weather sealed.<br>

In the meantime I will continue to use my kata camera cover with my apparantly porous 400d/XTi on occasions when theres crap flying around.<br>

If it's minus 30 I'll either sit in, or use my srt-303. Probably sit in though.<br>

Maybe its a problem canon have to look at, maybe the author has a brand loyalty themselves.<br>

Maybe the early adopters should learn to be a bit more patient....</p>

<p>The moisture could come in from the creaking CF doors :-).</p>

<p>For what its worth, I have used my 5D (Mark I) on 5 trips to Africa, shooting for extended periods by the ocean, near waterfalls, on the frigid summit of Kilimanjaro (-18 celsius) , in light rain, in humid rainforests (over 90% humidity), dusty safari tracks and in the Sahara etc.<br>

I have had it with in Greenland on the Ice Cap, in snow and freezing conditions. Also on 3 trips to the Himalaya to altitudes over 6000 meters in adverse weather as well as countless trips through European and North American forests in all kinds of weather. Of course I try to keep the camera as shielded as possible from the elements but my main priority is to get the shots and the 5D, without weather sealing, has yet to let me down.<br>

The camera may well be designed for the studio and "gentlemen amateurs" but I have been (much!) less than gentle with the camera and I am happy to say that it has taken the lickin' and keeps on tickin'!<br>

Based on my experience with the mark I , the lack of weather sealing on the Mark II would not deter me from buying it. However, if I didn't already have 5 digits worth of Canon lenses I would be seriously considering the Nikon D700, mainly for the AF and to use that sweeeeeet 14-24mm 2.8 lens.</p>

<p>I used my 40D about 10 times at -25/-30C this winter, flawlessly. I also used it under light rain so many times i couldn't remember. I used it in dusty south Utah, in humid Yellowstone, all flawlessly. Why would 5D II would be different?<br>

Does it means 100% of 40D can withstand everything, no. It just mean that i won't stay inside, reading internet report and asking myself: Will it fail? I go out take pictures, and that's it. If it fail, i'll go get another one. :)<br>

Pascal</p>

<p>ps. I am guessing that some of these problems came about with people making images out on the deck and then returning back to the warm ship without taking simple precautions against condensation. Antarctica in the summer is no worse than Europe or parts of North America in the winter. The 5D II is now almost through its first winter season and this is the only report of camera failure that I have heard about. It seems that if there were a serious problem with the camera there would be countless reports of failures from Canada to Scandanavia to Northern Japan. </p>

<p>Matthew, I wouldn't let "owning 5 digits worth of Canon lenses" stop you from adding D700 and 14-24mm 2.8 to your bag of tools. After much thought and impending Nikon price increases I did just that 3 weeks ago. Turns out my 5D & D700 get along just fine. And that 14-24mm 2.8 is INCREDIBLE. Its really good to know that D700 had zero failures. I'd say Nikon raised the bar with their consumer full frame making it so weather sealed. They certainly raised the bar making the "sharp as primes" 14-24mm 2.8 zoom lens and then selling it for $600 less than 14mm 2.8 II Eos.</p>

<p>One thing I noticed in the article is failure due to water accumulation between the grip and 5D2. I'd say thats 5D2 weakest point and may be reason for multiple failures. I wonder how many 5D Mark II without an attached grip failed?</p>

 

<p>Didn't luminous-landscape run a similar article a year or two back on 5Ds that was similarly statistically and logically flawed....<br>

On the other hand it was claimed temperatures were +2 to -3C, fairly routine.</p>

 

<p>There were only 5 nikon cameras used on their 2007 trip & coincidentally NONE failed on that trip too:</p>

<p> Two trips & No Nikon failures, but theres more canon in use, when they are functioning ;^)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/aa-07-worked.shtml">http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/aa-07-worked.shtml</a></p>

<p>I think its time canon offers consumer grade full frame thats weathersealed like Nikon does and for less money than 5DII costs. I'd rather have better seals than HD video. And call me crazy, but I like the pop-up flash on D700 and more than adequate 12mp. Oh and a last point, my D700 grip adds more frames per second, from 6fps to 8fps. Theres alot to like about both systems and I think its worthwhile owning both brands.</p>

<p>....oh no, I dropped 20 Canon DSLR's and 20 Nikon DSLR's from the top of a 5 story block of aparments and only 3 Canon's survived, but 4 Nikon's survived....I'd better buy a Nikon then...... :)</p>

I'm unfazed, I'll still get my 5D2 ;) I have shot with my humble 400D and humbler Rebel G film camera in pouring rain as well as billowing dust with no failures on either account. Haven't tried shooting in my fridge yet :) Snow in my part of the world is only found about 5,000m above sea level...

<p>FWIW: before becoming an ornament on the bottom of a reef, my 5D1 - camera with no weather sealing whatsoever - had taken a lot of shooting in all kinds of climates, from hot and humid (very hot and very humid, as in 100F and 100% humidity) to thirty below with frequent transitions between AC vehicles into the rain forest humidity and from the cold into warm interiors, without as much as skipping a beat. Yeah, shit happens but I'd wait for some analysis and independent confirmation before casting a judgment on 5D2: after some less-then-trustworthy reviews on LL (Leica M8 comes to mind...) I tend to take everything they publish with a truckload of salt.</p>

<p>Hopefully 5D Mkll prices will drop due to this article, and I'll be able to buy one sooner :-)</p>

<p>Colin pondered: "So why don't 25% of all 5DII s used outdoors in really cold places like Toronto pack up? What is magic about the -3deg in Antartica that kills cameras as opposed to -3 and below worldwide? I have not heard of reports of a 25% failure rate in cold, wet salty, hot, humid etc so this is a bit of a puzzle."</p>

<p>I think it was the milder shooting conditions of the Antarctic -- salt spray, combined with occasional rain to wash the salt into the unsealed 5DII cameras. To me this is a no-brainer. The cracked LCD and loose screw are noteworthy. So is Nikon's fall-apart lens.</p>

<p>No mention was made of which lenses were mounted on the two Canon 1-series cameras. For instance were non-L (and therefore un-gasketed) lenses used on these cameras? If so, the camera wasn't really sealed, and wet, salty contacts would predictably create error 99 and other intermittent problems.</p>

<p>Hasselblad also had problems. (Sweedish junk... ech!)</p>

<p>There's really too little info in this review to make judgements about what really happened, but I strongly suspect salt spray dripping into the circuitry (carried by light rain and condensation). Anyone who shoots with an unsealed camera in those circumstances is asking for trouble, IMO.</p>

<p>Damn! Better cancel my trip to Antartca....</p>

<blockquote>

<p>FWIW: before becoming an ornament on the bottom of a reef, my 5D1 - camera with no weather sealing whatsoever - had taken a lot of shooting in all kinds of climates, from hot and humid (very hot and very humid, as in 100F and 100% humidity) to thirty below with frequent transitions between AC vehicles into the rain forest humidity and from the cold into warm interiors, without as much as skipping a beat. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hmm, maybe the 5D (MKI) is more "weather resistant" than the MKII. My 3 year old 5D lives in humid Honolulu and frequently endured tropical sprinkles and salt air without problems. My only disappointment with the 5D is the LCD. Wish I could transplant one off the 5DII or 50D.</p>