hwyblues Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 After a recent out of town trip with my new 20D, I noticed that most of my pictures appear to lean to the left -- that is the horizon is such that the left of the frame is lower the right. The shots were all taken with the camera being hand held with a 17-40 lens. I realize that misplacing the horizon is human error and that it is simple to fix. I wonder, however, whether anybody else who has made the switch to the 20D has experienced something similar? I have never so consistently misplaced the horizontal level with my older film cameras and am wondering if it has anything to do with the new camera or the new lens (or perhaps my older eyes are to blame). I have attached an example. I ended up with a bunch of similar shots. Monte<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyDigs Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The 20D viewfinder is tiny compared to a typical film SLR and thus keeping horizons true can be challenging to say the least. When I first got my 10D I had the same problem. I actually improved alignment with practice but it's a lot more difficult than composing with my EOS 3 or FM3A. I've resigned to the fact I always need a .5 to 1 degree rotation in Photoshop when long vertical or horizontal lines are involved. Too bad a grid screen isn't built in... Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see. - Robert Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_lee2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Woah. that is weird. maybe due to the 20D's smaller size , you just dont have enough to grab. try the battery grip. maybe that would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemcvay Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 With my Olympus digicam, all my shots seem to lean slightly. I don't have this problem with any of my film cameras. I try and compensate in the field, but regularly have to rotate 0.5 to 2 degrees CCW in Photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick tom Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 hello quick question...how do you rotate in ps...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilb Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Image > Rotate Canvas > Arbitrary explore your software a bit... you won't hurt anything, i promise! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 That means your camera is actually tilted down on the right side. That's easy: The film canister was on the left side on your film camera therefore, you were holding more weight on that side. Now you have a digital camera and the weight is equal but, your hand is still used to holding more weight on one side so...it is now overcompensating causing the camera to tilt up to the left and therefore, the horizon to tilt down on the left... Alright, the smaller viewfinder is probably the real reason :) The film theory was pretty good though ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyDigs Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The CF card is on the right side so maybe he's over compensating. He should avoid large capacity cards--1GB or more--as increased heft may result in increased tilt. Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see. - Robert Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_minsky1 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Too bad the rotation sensor just gives you two bits of resolution. If it could record the angle the camera was at, the software could correct it. The main reason I would wish go from a 20D to a full frame camera would be to get a real viewfinder back. Oh, and to make the 28-135 IS into a useful wide angle lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark u Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 All the posters seem to be accusing you of user error. It may not be, and might be due to a misaligned finder instead. Try levelling the camera on a tripod with a shoemount spirit level and see if the rotation still persists. If so, it's reasonable to ask Canon to adjust it under warranty. The problem is more common with 300Ds, but there is no reason it won't happen with a 20D as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsawa Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 > It may not be, and might be due to a misaligned finder instead. I suppose it could be a misaligned sensor, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_laidler Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Monte, Sounds a strange problem I know, but I have exactly the same problem, horizons tilted down to the left! Have been an EOS film user for a long time and never suffered from such problems. Also previously had an EOS Digital Rebel and also didn't have the problem. Also, the problem is not consistent, some shots are okay others not. I also noticed that as well as tilted down to the left, if I take close ups they are also shifted towards the left. Sounds like my error I know, but I'm starting to suspect a faulty camera? David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 "The film theory was pretty good though ;P" It was a huuuuuuge stretch of the imagination but it sure sounded good:) Why does the earth tilt on it's axis? Cause there's more ice on one pole then the other. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_larson1 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 <i>The 20D viewfinder is tiny compared to a typical film SLR </i> <p> Compared to an EOS 3, sure. But compared to a typical $200 film slr? <p> I would take a few shots with a level as suggested -> just to rule out mechanical problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Have you tried mounting the camera on a tripod with built-in level? That should answer the question about tilted sensor/finder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyblues Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Thank you all for your advice. I will try testing the camera with my tripod. Any tips on what to shoot after the camera is level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awindsor Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Leaning tower of Pisa ? If it is straight then the finder is misaligned. I would shoot any large building. There will be plently of vertical lines to examine. Both building and camera will be perfectly vertical and so vertical lines in the building should be vertical in the picture. Horizontal lines may converge if the side of the building and the sensor plane are not perfectly parallel. This will eliminate sensor misalignment though not finder misalignment. To eliminate find misalignment you need to use the finder and a line in the building. Run the line vertically through the AF points (your visual reference). If the image comes out tilted then something in the viewfinder is skewed (possibly the screen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyblues Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 I put the camera on a tripod and leveled it using the levels on the tripod. I shot the carpenter's level perpendicular to the camera. Seems to me it still leans to the left? Could this really be a camera issue? Monte<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 mm...that looks titled as much as the 1st picture you posted, and it the same direction too. At this point I can't think of any other possible culprits (other than the already mentioned sensor). When you looked thru the finder, did the edge of the carpenter's level look parallel to the edge of the finder's top? If it did, then, ti is the sensor. Repeat the test and frame the picture so that the edge of the level is close to the upper frame of the finder; see if they look parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajweiss Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I had a 300D, and now I own a 20D. I also have a P&S SD300. I notice more crooked pictures with all of my digital cameras than I did with film, and I think I know why: Prints and aren't inherently mounted in a square, level box all of the time, but digital shots are. When we view them on monitors, we are providing a fixed, level (or close) reference frame that doesn't exist for prints. I don't think I take more crooked shots than I used to, but I know I NOTICE more of them now. I think that one or two degrees wouldn't be as noticeable if it was in a print on a table... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo_trindade Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It's funny to read this, as I noticed the same phenomenon after coming back from a trip a few weeks ago: many of my landscapes were tilted.... to the RIGHT! ;) It was pretty consistent, and I typically needed about 1 degree rotation to fix it. I just chalked it up to bad technique on my part, and I remember thinking I was pretty consistent. Now, I wonder: A) Bad technique - maybe due to the adjustment to the new camera B) Bad technique - it's always been there, but I didn't notice with film C) Faulty camera... what is the tolerance on these things? 1 degree is a very small number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_swanson Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Have you lost a heel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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