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1st real gig, getting a reality check


ed_lemko

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<p>I must have read a thousand threads in the past years, and have learned a lot here from many about both the technical and business side. As the philosopher would say " and I still know nothing"</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I've been asked to photograph a large party of probably 100-150 people at a very large house. I'll continue to work on my skills, but I need to get a reality check on my gear. I know many say that in the right hands, great pictures can be taken with a point and shoot. But we know, the chances are much better if you show up with proper equipment...</p>

<p>Money is not a concern as this person is wealthy and wants to have someone that will "go around and take pictures". I soon will be talking budget, expectations, etc. with them, but for now, I need to make sure I have enough to do the job. Still have to think about how to price this, so I have some pricing strategy and technique issues to think through, but for now I'm ensuring I have the tools. I'm treating as a summer outdoor wedding. Lots of people, a couple of speeches, lots of fun, dancing, lots of photo journalistic casual shots, someone from the host to help me with staging small groups, and organizing one large group shot that I need to do at the end...</p>

<p>I have a:<br>

Nikon D40x (I will be buying a new camera and using this as a backup, that's one of my questions- the new body purchase)</p>

 

<h1>with 4 lenses:</h1>

<p>Sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS<a href="http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/18-200mm-f35-63-dc-os-sigma"><br />http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/18-200mm-f35-63-dc-os-sigma</a><br>

<br />Sigma 50-150mm F2.8 EX DC APO HSM II<br /><a href="http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/50-150mm-f28-ex-dc-apo-hsm-ii-sigma">http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/50-150mm-f28-ex-dc-apo-hsm-ii-sigma</a><br>

<br />Nikkor AF-S DX 35mm f/1.8G<br /><a href="http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Camera-Lenses/2183/AF-S-DX-NIKKOR-35mm-f%252F1.8G.html">http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Camera-Lenses/2183/AF-S-DX-NIKKOR-35mm-f%252F1.8G.html</a></p>

<p>Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO-M DG Macro<br /><a href="http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/70-300mm-f4-56-apo-m-dg-macromotorized-nikon">http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/70-300mm-f4-56-apo-m-dg-macromotorized-nikon</a></p>

<br />SB600, SB400,

<p>3 batteries good for about 550 shots each.<br>

3 8GB and 1 16GB class 6 SD cards. </p>

<p>I'm thinking I need a constant 2.8 wide zoom to put on my other (yet unpurchased) camera like maybe this</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/1002/10022014sigma17mm50mm.asp">http://www.dpreview.com/news/1002/10022014sigma17mm50mm.asp</a></p>

<p>Much of this will be outdoors, and I'll want to take a large group shot with a tripod from the upstairs window or deck, and mostly roam around taking shots of people laughing and backslapping.</p>

<p>I assume my payment will be around 1000-2000+ dollars, but that will be for other stuff too (make a slideshow with old pictures, so on, unrelated to the photography. This will be nailed down of course, but the general comp will be in this range, not 200 bucks, not 5000 bucks.</p>

<p>So my thinking is that I need an 17-50 2.8 lens to complete my lens collection, and a backup body, or rather I've been thinking of upgrading my d40x for 2 yrs now, so it's a good time to relegate that to backup duty.</p>

<p>I'm looking at the d90, which would blow a huge part of my budget, and is now an older body, or a d5000 which has the same sensor and focus points as the d90, and with the savings (250/350 bucks) I can buy most of a new wide f28 zoom lens. The D5000 has a quiet mode shutter, and a nice flip screen I can use for easier shoe-top shots or overhead shots. The D90 and D5000 have a very close continuous rate of 4.5 and 4 respectively, so that's a tie.</p>

<p>Or I scrap it all, go for broke, and go for a d300s with no funds left for a new lens.</p>

<p>Lastly, there are Nikon rumors that the d90 will soon get a refresh, like a "D7000" with a 19 point AF sensor, but that's just vaporware at this point, and this gig will be in late summer, so I could try to wait it out. There's a Nikon "press morning" planned for March 9-ish, but I think that will be for a new coolpix.</p>

<p>Thanks for any ideas!</p>

<p> </p>

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<blockquote>

<p>Much of this will be outdoors, and I'll want to take a large group shot with a tripod from the upstairs window or deck, and mostly roam around taking shots of people laughing and backslapping.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>You're agonizing over this far too much. (Analysis paralysis)</p>

<p>Outdoor shoot? Plenty of light?</p>

<p>A couple options.</p>

<p>Nothing wrong with your D40 for this type of event.</p>

<p>Lenses? You don't really want to be changing and carrying (4) lenses; do you?</p>

<p>The 18-200 could shoot the entire thing. Granted, not a pro lens, but this doesn't feel like a pro event.</p>

<p>Just from what I read here, I'd shoot the entire thing with two lenses.</p>

<p>50mm 1.8 or 1.4<br>

70-200 or 80-200</p>

<p>Lugging around heavy equip all day is not my idea of fun unless I have a sherpa with me.</p>

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<p>I'm with Kevin on this. I think the one lens should do. But you should have a flash. If it's daylight, you still should use one for fill, and you should practice ahead of time to learn how to use it as such. The one on the camera would do, but it will eat more power, so you might want to bring your charger with you.</p>
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<blockquote>

<p>Granted, not a pro lens, but this doesn't feel like a pro event.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p><em>excuse me? </em> any event when you are getting paid to shoot is a 'pro' event. biggest mistake you can make is not take yourself seriously enough.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The 18-200 could shoot the entire thing. Just from what I read here, I'd shoot the entire thing with two lenses.<br>

50mm 1.8 or 1.4<br /> 70-200 or 80-200</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>besides being a contradictory statement, this is very. bad. advice. first off, you're advising the OP to shoot with two lenses he doesn't even own when he has a perfectly fine fast tele zoom covering most of this range already. secondly, you first suggest a superzoom could shoot the whole thing, then you say a medium tele and a long tele could get it done. which is it? third, for a daytime event, a 50mm lens will be pretty much useless and/or redundant.</p>

<p>usually, group photos necessitate something much wider than 50mm on a DSLR, unless you are so far away the people will look like ants. i dont know about you, but when i'm paid to shoot events--parties qualify here--i always take a 2.8 wide zoom and a 2.8 tele zoom for full coverage.</p>

<p>i agree 18-200 is a wide and long enough range to cover most situations, but i seriously doubt the 18-200 has as good IQ as the 50-150. for one thing, you can't really get subject isolation with a max aperture of 6.3, which could also lead to AF issues (nikon says 5.6 or better is optimal). and if the person who's hiring the photographer just wanted casual snapshots without a 'pro' look, why wouldn't he just do it himself with a P&S?</p>

<p>bottom line: use two bodies and two lenses-- the 50-150 and a fast wide zoom. get at least an sb-600 so you can dial in fill without going into menus.</p>

<p>if all goes well, you will likely get referrals. down the line, if you find yourself shooting more paid events, you will need the 2.8 wide zoom and the flash, so might as well get them now.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>I shoot events like this fairly often, receptions after shooting a philharmonic concert here in Los Angeles. I always use two cameras (D70s), one with a short zoom (Nikon 24-85 f/2.8-4, soon to be a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 VC) and SB 600 flash (turned on and off as needed) with a diffuser attached, the other with a Sigma 50-150 f/2.8. I also have a Tokina 12-24 and Nikon 70-300VR if needed. Without a doubt get the D90 and a short 2.8 zoom like the Tamron, Tokina, Sigma or Nikon (I prefer the Tamron for the price and vibration control, but may lean to the Tokina because they built like a tank).<br /> <br /> As an aside here, just last Sunday at a daytime concert, I started using a chest harness system, the Cotton Carrier, because I just got tired of dangling cameras from neck straps or holster carriers that bang around each other or people as I roam around the event. It holds two cameras with any length lenses and allows my hands to be free, but quick to release the cameras. I have neck and shoulder nerve damage so the Cotton Carrier is a real help (by-the-way, I don't get anything for mentioning this.)</p>
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<blockquote>

<p>you first suggest a superzoom could shoot the whole thing, then you say a medium tele and a long tele could get it done.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Read a little more carefully.<br>

I said the 18-200 (could) shoot the entire event. I did not recommend that, nor would it be the way I would do it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>excuse me? any event when you are getting paid to shoot is a 'pro' event.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<blockquote>

<p>roam around taking shots of people laughing and backslapping.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Getting paid does not a pro shoot make...unless that is your own definition of a pro shoot.<br>

This seems to be a very informal affair, NOT in need of top lenses, top bodies, extreme color accuracy..no posed shots except the balcony thing, no backdrops, no light modification.<br>

I suppose we all would shoot various venues differently.</p>

<p>..and yes; I would shoot this with a 50mm via a DX body AND a 70-200 if for no other reason than having tack sharp images.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>but kevin, the OP doesnt own a 70-200 (!) and a 50mm is too long for group shots.</p>

<p>to me the issue with the 18-200 isnt necessarily the IQ, although that wouldnt be my first choice, but the slow aperture. not saying it couldnt be done, but a 17-50/50-150 combo and two bodies would do it better.</p>

<p>as far as getting paid to shoot a casual affair, i dont think that means one must have a casual or cavalier approach to documenting the event. if i was paying that kind of money to hire a photographer, i'd want someone to do the best job they possibly could.</p>

<p>also, you say this gig is "<em>NOT in need of top lenses</em> , top bodies, extreme color accuracy..no posed shots except the balcony thing, no backdrops, no light modification" and then you say "I would shoot this with a 50mm via a DX body AND a 70-200 <em>if for no other reason than having tack sharp images.</em> "</p>

<p>again, this is a basic contradiction. maybe you should read into the implications of what you are saying more carefully, to avoid making such confusing statements.</p>

 

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<p>Thanks guys, from Eric down to Ramon,<br>

<strong>Lens: </strong><br>

So I'm getting some reinforcement on the need for a fast wide zoom. I'm looking at this<br>

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tamron-17-50mm-Vibration-Compensation-Digital/dp/B002LVUIXU">http://www.amazon.com/Tamron-17-50mm-Vibration-Compensation-Digital/dp/B002LVUIXU</a></p>

<p>and I'm wondering what this will cost, as the tamron was mentioned to have a bit loud of a motor, while the following has a HSM</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/1002/10022014sigma17mm50mm.asp">http://www.dpreview.com/news/1002/10022014sigma17mm50mm.asp</a></p>

<p>Should be available somewhere soon, or maybe I can just get the tamron if the sigma is up at 700-800 bucks (which it shouldnt be I hope)</p>

<p><strong>Flash question</strong>: For daytime fill flash and walking around the grounds, (and lacking an assistant) would you walk around with mostly the 17-50mm or the 50-150? And would you walk around with an SB600 flash in an outstretched hand, with a Fong on it? Taking shots like that (as opposed to on-camera sb600) doesn't make me a camera nerd, just a good photographer?</p>

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<p>I wouldn't bother with the Fong outside. You have nothing for the light to bounce from, which means you'll be throwing a great deal of that energy away - robbing you of light, and of battery life and recycle time. If you're just filling, in daylight, you can probably get away with it right on the hot shoe. If you're in darker shade, you may indeed want to get it off of the lens axis a bit, but that can be hard if you're holding a camera with a 50-150 in one hand, and trying to zoom/compose at the same time. That's what brackets are for.</p>
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<p>A Nikon 17-35mm f2.8 zoom should be all you'll need, combined with perhaps a 50mm for portraits. Can't imagine where you would use a 50-150 unless there is a huge yard and you want to shoot an out of focus headshot of someone.</p>

<p>Seriously, keep it simple. Flash on camera, bounce off the ceiling, use the SB-900 (or 800) if you have it. And have fun!</p>

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<p>ed, i have the 17-50 non-VC and the 50-150. that's my standard 'event kit' (along with d300+d80) though for fairs and festivals where group shots are plentiful and there's interesting scenery i sometimes add an ultra-wide to the mix (tokina 12-24/4) for those times when more wideness is needed. overall, i'd say the 17-50 range is more useful for DX but an UWA can work in those situations too, as long as you watch out for distorting people's faces.</p>

<p>the 50-150 as you know has HSM; the 17-50 VC has a micromotor (BiM)--much slower and louder. i find i dont miss VC with a lens that short, plus the screw-drive is faster than the BiM. you can probably still pick up an original model 17-50 for $400-$450 or thereabouts, which is a terrific deal for that level of optic performance.</p>

<p>at $800 for the new sigma, if it ends up being that much, you're approaching the cost of a (used) 17-55, which doesnt have OS, but still... yet another option is the tokina 16-50/2.8. havent tried it, but every mm on the wide end counts.</p>

<p>+1 on the bracket. i'd also maybe think about getting a grip for the camera you stick the 50-150 on (most likely the d90, if you end up with that). i can definitely tell the difference between a gripped-up d300+50-150 and without, balance-wise, when i shoot that lens.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>you have a pretty good combo of lenses with the sigma 50-150 f2.8 and the 35 mm f1.8. both are fairly fast and cover a good range of focal lengths. anything else you can rent. make sure you are familiar and comfortable with the equipment. it's probably ok to change lense and work with just one body.<br>

if you want to look totally pro, rent another body (one you are familar with) and maybe a wide zoom. either the 12-24 zoom (use 35mm separately) if you like ultra-wide or a 17-35 if you are more conventional. you definitely need a wide angle for people/architecure/place shots, both inside and outside. it will be nice to mix up the perspectives so the shots do not all have the same look.<br>

do you have a separate flash? being able to bounce flash will be important. you can buy an SB-600 for only $250 or so.</p>

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<p>Ed how many events have you ever shot. You seem to be taking a job, geting paid between 1000-2000 but have you ever shot an event before as a paid photographer. How are your photography skills are you just a bit unsure about the equipment or are you really going to shoot a paid job without really knowing what you are doing. As you have no photos uploaded here and have no links to any of your work and have not mentioned any previous event work experience I have no way of knowing so I am sorry but I just have to ask.</p>

<p>As for your equipment questions you need a second body without a doubt. You may like the one 17-50 2.8 zooms if that range works for you. I never really liked that length for event work. A number of years I purchased a 28-70 2.8 and an 80-200 2.8 for use on film cameras but I never liked that combo for shoot events where I would be walking around taking photos and I would often swich to my slower 35-135 as I found the range seemed to work better for me. Now I like 28-75 2.8 and would not care for a 17-50 zoom on my DX digital bodies but many don't and favour the 17-50 focal lenth.</p>

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<p>Hello Ed, you've already gotten some sound advice, I'm just going to say keep things simple. The more stuff, the more variables, the more trouble lurking. Like Stuart, I think you need another decent body, along with two batteries, that gives you two for one and three for the D40. Next you need some type of "work lens" that is your go-to lens. Interestingly mine is an old 1980s Tamron 28-80 SP on my D200. I set everything manual, using a film speed of 160, just like I did for years with my Hasselblads and use a non-matching SB 25 that I use in "auto" because the TTL doesn't match my body. It has an old Lumiquest bouncer on it. I set the K to 5500 just like my old film and shoot whatever I need. When needed I will switch to tripod and second D200 set at 400 ISO and maximum noise reduction with either 50 1.4 or 85 1.8 or 180 2.8 or 300 4.5 For candid work my second D200 has an SB600 and I leave an old flat 50 1.8 Ais on there, it is very sharp and has almost zero distortion or flare. I also have and use a 28mm AF-D with a stuck aperture, I really only use that lens for available light so I don't care, I shoot wide open. Some people don't like the D200 because of the compromised low light capabilty and CCD sensor, and of course it's not the latest thing. It is well made and durable, has PC flash connector for studio and for me they fit my style and work perfectly, they also work with all the older lenses, so you could probably pick one of these up at a decent price and an older lens and could shoot just fine. You don't need the latest wiz bang thing just gear to cover your job. Later when you are making good money shooting, buy what you want to add like full frame D700 and top 17-50 or whatever.</p>
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<p>Money is not a concern as this person is wealthy<br>

this business plan/thought process could lead to trouble down the road. just saying. a client is a client, time/hr spent/ product given. their net worth has no relation to the value put on the product you give them, some of my best clients don't have a large net worh, just saying.</p>

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<p>First of all, congrats. Your first paid gig is exciting. Pat yourself on the back.</p>

<p>As far as advice, I'll take a different tact. You could shoot the entire event with the 35/1.8 on your D40 (AND get good to great results). If it's not wide enough for the outdoor group shots, use your 18-200. Keep things simple. When indoors, keep your sb-600 pointed straight up and/or bounce off anything and everything. Your rapport with the subjects will probably have a stronger influence on how "pleasing" your images are than how much f/2.8 pro glass you're pointing at them.</p>

<p>Certainly a backup body will give you and your client peace of mind, but I wouldn't go overboard. I think you'll deliver better results by spending some quality time practicing indoor people shots (tweak your flash and exposure ratios, experiment with a little shutter drag; shooting indoor in mixed dim light can mean constantly juggling aperture, shutter, iso, and flash exp. comp.) than by buying a bunch of equipment. Volunteer your family/friends as models and try to replicate the conditions.</p>

<p>That said, if you find you are over-matched, you need to be honest with your client. Make sure you are meeting his/her expectations. You want to start things off on the right foot.</p>

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<p>Just to reiterate, I think you're overcomplicating this a bit. Since its a party and not a wedding, there won't be any real organized posing other than the one at the end. And since you'll be circulating amongst an amorphous group of guests, there's almost no need for a long lens - you're more likely to get people in the way, so you should really plan to be closer to people, and hence a wider lens makes a lot of sense. <br>

The flash is going to be extremely important. Even though its outside, if for some reason the light isn't great, then you run the risk of the pics looking a bit dead, so the flash not only allows you to fill, but the power and outdoor-adjusted color temp tend to bring out color more than you might see on a cloudy day. But definitely bring the backup body and batteries.<br>

I've shot parties for friends, etc., and its much less orthodox than a wedding, and certainly less focused on particular people. Your client likely just wants somebody who circulates and gets pictures of assorted couples/small groups enjoying themselves with a drink in their hands. And once again, that requires more of a wide angle/normal lens range and some management of light, but not a ton of equipment.</p>

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<p>Stuart,<br>

I've shot one small wedding for free, and was an "Uncle Bob" twice, where I took about 4-5 hundred shots for good friends to make sure their wedding was covered. It was one of those times where you like the people, and if you don't do it, noone else will... <br>

A few times, I positioned myself in places, like by the church entrance, where the bride was just arriving with her father in a white limo, where the hired photographer was somewhere else, and not covering it. So I provided photos which would have been lost (in that location and others), even though a pro was on duty with a camera 10x more expensive than mine. You don't get the day back, and I knew I was doing something helpful.<br>

<br />So, I don't come with a portfolio, but I've been asked by a family friend who's seen lots of my monthly shots of parties, family, and the occasional wedding to help commemorate the day. So the obvious danger is the over representation of my abilities, but they do know I'm not a pro, and are OK with that. Also, much of the money is going towards building a ken burns type slideshow of the family tree, restoring old photographs, assembling a historical photo timeline that will be shown at the event. So it's not all photography money. To satisfy your question, I've quickly uploaded a rough montage of shots just as a glance, not a real portfolio. It's just a 10 minute cull, so no time for "flow" and all that should be in a real gallery.</p>

<p>I'm continuing to read the rest of the responses after Stuart, and again, thank you for pitching in to my situation.</p>

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<p>Use flash, and use fast lenses too. Wide angle zoom, short tele prime. 2.8 for the zoom, at least 1.8 for the prime. It's not really that complicated(until you get there and realize you've brought the wrong stuff, oh well).</p>
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<p>Ed,<br>

What does "Money is not a concern as this person is wealthy and wants to have someone that will "go around and take pictures". " You appear to assume( a very dangerous word or action) that this person's wealth means he will throw money to the wind and accept and pay for your work beit good or bad.<br>

No where have I seen where the size of a print rquired is stated. That alone can be a desiding fact on what camera to buy The group shot is the #1 shot they want. What experiance have you at posing a group of 150 people? You can have $250,000.oo worth of equipment available to use but if you can't pose the people properly, the picture is not what he/she was after--same goes for light balancing and metering. The front row may turn out perfect but light fall off ratio related to DOF and lens setting will cause the rest of the rows to become darker and under exposed as the distance between subject and camera flash increase. One other item to consider is "Do you have proper insurance to cover a reshoot by a professional photogrher of his choice if your work is not up to his expectations or what another photographer would be capable of if he/she decides to go to court. Congratulations but KYAC.<br>

Gary</p>

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<p>Garry,</p>

<p>I have no experience posing groups, or a wedding party even, very true. And I agree with your comment about assuming-- in my op I tried to carry the sentiment that it's been communicated that money is not a concern, which leaves out the set of problems of people paying and lying to have problems with you but they simply don't have the funds, which happens. But it does not remove the necessity to do a good job, no matter how poor or rich the client</p>

<p>My next phase will be to continue to practice with my possible new body/lens, and existing body/lens. Your description of the difficulties of a group shot is right on-- reading your scenario, I can't jump right in and give the correct technical answer. All I can say is I don't have a set of 6 flash stands and guns to remotely fire at a large group, and I'm not planning on running around with that much equipment at all. Half because I don't want to, half because it would be my 1st time using "6 stands and 6 guns", quote unquote. I have a set of 3 chinese yongnuo radio triggers at 2.4GHZ with one transmitter, but I've only used them indoors (2 of the receivers) for portraits with an umbrella main and one rim.</p>

<p>For the group shot, I'm hoping to use a tripod from up high-- it's been described to me that there's a large deck, then there's an even larger one far below, and so I'm hoping to gain a good vantage point. The home is 3 hours away, and so it would be an all day thing to visit to check out the group shot logistics, if I do that. </p>

<p>re: the light falloff on the group shot, I'm going to need to do the shot at a time where the ambient light is even on all the faces, and there are no large trees near the group, and there's no huge uneven sun problem. Other than that, I have to do my homework on some of the group shot threads here. </p>

<p>No, I have no insurance.</p>

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