And again lens question

"There is an old saying, "You get what you pay for."

 

Can we have an AMEN? Often you are lucky to get what you pay for, sometimes you

get even less, but it's RARE to get MORE than you pay for. While $300.00 is a nice

sum, it isn't going to help that N80, that Alex already has, if he buys manual lenses.

He could get an AF lens, which will allow his current system to grow.

 

austin calhoon writes:

"My reccomendation would be to pick up a user 80-200 2.8 and shoot away. I've

found anywhere from $275-$400 is user condition."

 

Wow, if you seen the Nikon AF 80-200 f/2.8D ED tripod mount version, for those

prices, then you've seen them a lot cheaper than I have. And that includes KEH and

B&H. You could have made some good money buying and reselling them.

<em>"While $300.00 is a nice sum, it isn't going to help

that N80, that Alex already has, if he buys manual lenses."

--Carl Stone<br>

</em><br>

This makes no logical sense whatsoever. I own a Hasselblad 500CM

and three Linhof(s) on which I can use a manual focus Nikkor, a

vintage 1965 Micro-Nikkor Auto 55/3.5. Now if I can do that why

the hell cant Alex use an AI Nikkor on his N80. The simple

answer is he can. Whether he wants to is another story.<br>

<br>

Worse yet I can use a 135/5.6 Nikkor-W designed for 4x5 inch

cameras on my F5 as well as a 100/5.6 Componon-S designed for a 6x9

enlarger. The Nikkor-W even uses convenient 52mm filters.<br>

<br>

<em>"He could get an AF lens, which will allow his current

system to grow." --Carl Stone<br>

</em><br>

True, but he can also get an MF lens, which will allow his

current system to grow.<br>

<br>

Where do folks get the idea that a camera has to have Auto-Focus,

Program, Matrix Metering, etc. or its crippled? Why state

as fact what is not fact?

The only medium fast AF Nikkor in the 85~135 range that is modestly priced is the AF 85/1.8D. I didn�t recommend it for two reasons. Several already had and it�s very close to 50mm in focal length, also I�ve never owned one.

 

Since there are no modestly priced 100, 105 and 135mm AF Nikkors here are a few more MF Nikkors to consider. The 100/2.8 Series E (AIS) and 135/3.5 AI or AIS, both of these can be had for less than one hundred dollars. Another lens that can be had for just over two hundred is the 135/2.8 AI or AIS. The 105/2.5 is still my top choice.

""He could get an AF lens, which will allow his current system to grow." --Carl Stone

 

True, but he can also get an MF lens, which will allow his current system to grow."

 

 

If he's willing to forego metering, then go for it. He specifically asked if there was

anythig else to

consider, and IMO, metering is a consideration. Of course, he can ignore his N80, and

buy a camera with less control than it has. Somehow, that seems like a move in the

wrong direction to me. I have nothing against manual lenses, but he doesn't have to

buy an EM to achive his goals. He could do exactly what he wants to do with an AF

lens, and not give up all of the modern technology, part of which he already owns.

 

Personally, I don't care what he does, I just offered what he asked for, an opinion.

There seems to be a contingent that thinks anything newer is to be avoided, and the

old manual equipment is some sort of magic. It isn't that I care one way or the other,

but he asked for a recommendation, and IMO using his N80 makes more sense to me

than going backwards, and having to buy a camera, lens, or maybe a light meter,

just to do what an AF lens will do on his N80. The more older technology that he

buys, the less likely it is to be compatible with newer equipment as it comes to the

market. That is not what I would term growing a system. What it does do is force him

to give up some of the technology that he already has, and buy equipment that is not

fully compatible with his current equipment. For a guy on a budget like his, that just

seems silly. However, he will do as he pleases in any event, so this is just an exercise

in futility.

<em>"He specifically asked if there was anythig else to

consider, and IMO, metering is a consideration." --CS<br>

</em><br>

I thought I pointed out the need for a hand held meter pretty

well, maybe I didnt.<br>

<br>

<em>"...but he doesn't have to buy an EM to achive his goals."

--CS<br>

</em><br>

I would not suggest an EM. I had no interest in one when they

were on the market. I think thats the model where one had

to buy an accessory manual exposure control which stuck out on

right front. I thought it was really tacky.<br>

<br>

<em>"There seems to be a contingent that thinks anything

newer is to be avoided, and the old manual equipment is some sort

of magic." --CS<br>

</em><br>

Not at all. I dont see the AF 85/1.8D as a good choice

because its so close to the AF 50/1.4D in focal length. The

AF 105/2.0D DC is a cool $919.95 while the AF 135/2.0D DC is just

1,069.95. The AF 80~200/2.8D ED is a bazooka, a rather nice bazooka,

but its 919.95. The AF 28~105/3.5~4.5D is too slow for

portraits at least for me. Im guessing Alex likes fast and

medium fast primes not medium slow zooms. I also dont care

for macro lenses used as portrait lenses especially those that

lose focal length as they focus closer. Macro lenses often have a

rather harsh background rendition.<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

I feel the optics take precedent over other features so I

recommended the 105/2.5 AI or AIS. Id rather use a preset

lens with the right optics than a more compatible and featured

lens with undesirable optics. My top recommendation is the AF 105/2.0D

DC but I gather that, that is well outside his budget, it's outside mine. This brings me back to the 105/2.5 AI or AIS. There are 105/2.5(s), AI and AIS, ranging from $115.00 to $286.00 at KEH.com today.<br>

<br>

Cheers!

" I thought I pointed out the need for a hand held meter pretty well, maybe I didn�t."

 

Before we too far afield, yes you did a good job of saying that he would need a hand

held meter. But he already has one built into the N80. Does he understand how to use

a hand held meter?

 

Yeah, the 85 and the 50 are close, but still different. It's his budget, and whether or

not all of the purchases are justified, when he can get some good portraits with the

85. As for me, I'd very much enjoy a 105 f/2.5, but I have a camera that it will meter

with. I would not buy a camera just to use it if I was on Alex's budget. A light meter is

not something that I

argue against either, if one really intends to use it. I'm with you in stressing optical

quality, but Alex has not shown that he is on the same page by comparing a Sigma

4.28 x zoom with that 85 f/1.8 for any sort of portrait work. I'm betting that he takes

the $150.00, but I've been wrong before.

 

Meanwhile, I'm waiting to find those tripod collar version 80-200 zooms for the

prices quoted earlier in this thread. :o)

Thank you everybody. You all make a very valid and interestin points.

<br>

Carl Stone,you are epecially, but I am on the the same page, and I am not comparing consumer grade Sigma to Nikkor 85mm prime. The reason I have them both in mix is because of my current budget and desire to to fit too many things at once in it.

<br>

As far as light meter, well, I do know how to use it. If I had it, I would just use it with my Kiev 19(I broke meter on that one) and AIS lenses.<br>

But again, it adds to the cost. The cheapest one from B&H photo is $65, but makes not much sense for protrait shooting since I can use built in meter with AF lens of my camera to get the exposure for AIS lens (can I?-just mount AF lens, get readings, mount AIS, make adjustments etc.). The cheapest meter that would make sense to buy in this case would be Gossen DigiFlash - Digital Incident, Reflected and Flash Light Meter for $160.

<br>

And Carl, I am not going $150 lens in any case. The Sigma that I was concidering is about $200 :)

"And Carl, I am not going $150 lens in any case."

 

Sorry Alex, I left a word out, it seeems that I've been doing that a lot lately.

 

Anyway what I meant was that I was betting that you'd take that $150.00 deal (the

word I left out) on the EM, since you said that you had decided to go with MF lenses.

Good luck. :o)

I guess not. Few people here adviesed me against going with EM camera. I am willing to listen. Besides, in this kind of set up I would prefer something either fully mechanical or at least full mechanical shutter back up, not just at 1/90 speed.

For a second body I�d recommend a Nikon FM2n. It�s quite different from an N80 but I think different bodies complement each other. If this contradicts what I wrote above, well then I guess I look like the fool I am. One might want two camera bodies more than a second focal length lens. This is valid for whoever has this need or desire. I think I�ve always added a second body after owning three of four lenses.

 

I agree with Carl Stone that an 85mm focal length is different enough from a 50mm to warrant owning both. I�d most likely build a new system in this order, 60/2.8, 105/2.5, 24/2.8, 180/2.8, 35/2.0 and 85/1.4 or 1.8. I�d pick up a good deal on a clean used 50/1.8 or 1.4 as I found it. 55, 105 and 24 is the way I�ve done it twice.

 

I have a habit of defending the underdog. If primes are being dumped on as lacking versatility I�ll point out where they are versatile. If zooms are being dumped on I�ll point out a few choice zooms. These days manual focus lenses get dumped on a lot so I�m often defending them but I like my AF 35~70/2.8D for use with flash and near IR focus assist. With AF and near IR you can focus in all but total darkness. I disable AF at the shutter release on the F5 with custom setting 4:1, lock the center AF censor and set single servo focus to release priority with 2:1. The same thing can be done with an F100 or N80 but without the focus assist as release priority is not available in SS focus with these bodies.

 

I often throw out a lot of possibilities and sometimes they conflict. There are usually a lot of options. Here I think Nikon should add a new one. I�d love to see a 105/2.5 P. I also think Nikon should offer AIS to P upgrades like it did from Auto Nikkor to AI Nikkor.

 

---

 

Years ago I replaced the 190 cu. in. six in my �63 Nova station wagon with a 230 cu. in. Pontiac OHC six. Next the 3 speed manual got replaced with a Series 400 Turbo Hydro from a �67 GTO. If I hadn�t finally gotten the four wheel drive I really wanted a 389 cu. in. Pontiac V8 with three deuces and certain death would have followed. I�ve been mixing and matching for too many years to stop now.

Those are fine choices for primes, David. Of course some of us are budget

constrained, so we may be forced to go about it a bit different, but good advice about

building a system is always welcome. I'd love to have a full compliment of primes and

zooms, but that isn't likely, and I suspect that I'm not alone. I wish that I would have

started earlier in my life, but then we all wish for something that we could re-do. Low

to no light focusing is something that my Minolta was good at, with it's built in IR

assist, but the slow lenses amounted to a direct conflict with that ability, if you

wanted good resuts, LOL.

 

I see that you were a regular Micky Thompson in your youth. Those dreams of that

GTO were also playing in my head, and it probably would have resulted in disaster.

Just yesterday, I was looking online trying to find out where I could get an old 33 rpm

album put out by Riverside records back in the 60's. It was called the Sounds of

Speed, recorded at Bonneville, and had Micky's 4 engine Challenger on the cover.

Ahh, those were the days for a California guy.