lith printing: contrast & dilution/exposure

Hello All-

 

I'm new to lith printing, and have been trying it with the following

setup:

* Maco developer at rec'd dilution (1 A + 1 B + 12 water), trying to

keep it around 68-70 F.

* Forte Polywarmtone FB paper. (tried the Cachet paper, but found

them to be terrible as regards the problems described below - anyone

else find these papers to be less exciting for lith than advertised?)

 

With these materials, I'm getting decent results sometimes. The

prints definitely look "lithy". The image comes up in 3-5 minutes.

My problem has been in getting a low enough contrast so that the

highlights aren't completely white when the blacks start to explode.

So far, my experiments have shown this to require very long exposure

times, as in 3-6 minutes and up at f5.6 for an 8x10. Much longer,

in any case, than articles I've read have lead me to expect. (The

guideline I've seen of 1-3 stops past what's required for a normal

print has proven to be insufficient.) One print required something

like 8 minutes at f4 to rein in the contrast!

 

With this amount of time the prints still look very contrasty, but I

start to get some tone (and color) in the lighter areas. Anything

less and they look like a grainy grade 5.

 

My question: other than longer and longer exposure times (which lead

to lack of sharpness and make me very bored), is there any other way

to bring up the highlights faster? Will diluting the developer

further help this? If so, can someone suggest a dilution for the

Maco that they like?

 

Can temperature have a big effect here? I've tried using warmer

dev., but the stuff gives off unpleasant fumes at a lower temp than

the packaging suggests (they say 25 C, I've found myself feeling

gassed-out at 22 C).

 

Are other papers faster with lith? (The Cachets were much worse.)

 

Any other suggestions? Or should I just resign myself to the very

long exposures?

 

Also: anyone know if the fumes from lith developer are really

harmful, or just unpleasant?

 

Thanks much, sorry for the long post,

Matthew

 

PS I know about THE book, but haven't been able to acquire a copy

yet. But yes, I already know I should read it!

Matthew, I've been trying similar things, but with Fotospeed Lith paper and LT20 developer. I also had the same results as you. I have "the book", and it has a helpful troubleshooting diagnosis chart that I think confirms your line of thought on the exposures. You basically expose for the highlights, develop for the shadows.

When I decided to leave one to develop to completion, it came out as completely posterised, just black and white. I tried some more with extremely long exposures, and they came out much better. I'm talking about 10 or more minutes under the enlarger. Not an ideal solution, but I'm getting better results now. You may have to live with longer exposures or get a brighter enlarger.

 

I've been developing at ambient temp, about 18 C in my darkroom at present, and images have been forming in about 5 minutes.

 

HTH

I've been lucky with Arista A/B Liquidlith developer, available from <a href="http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_main.php?cat_id=2003">Freestyle</a>, diluted at about 1:9 using Forte Polywarmtone FB paper. My typical exposure times have been between 90-180 sec @ 5.6. The highlights range from a delicate creamy yellow to a light tan, quite controllable by varying the exposure time. Development times are a bit on the long side, anywhere from 10 minutes and up, so I guess there's no escaping the boredom factor with this printing technique.<div></div>

Hi Matthew,

now you know, why liths are so expensive ;-).

I basically had similar experiences with Fomatone MG or Forte Polywarmtone (aka Classic Warmtone) and Moersch developer. The Foma Stuff seems to be the easiest to handle (not quicker indeed).

Using times up to ten minutes exposure (restarting my jobo switch max 90 secs for up to 8 times) and developing up to 15 (dilution 1/20) is not unusual. It rather keeps me looking for underdeveloping the negs, to have more light, wich also keeps contrast low. Dense 35mm negs printed large scale is a day filling job indeed. At least the Moersch developer doesn`t show any gasing effects, no smell no headache (tested up to 22 degrees).

One hint might be the classic polycoldtone paper (should be some forte stuff too) for it`s about 2 stops faster then the warmtonestuff, but works in lith developer. Comes quite hard, so you loose again.

Remember it`s got to hurt to be good.

Martin

Thanks to all of you for the input. At least I know I'm not crazy.

 

I am still curious about how different dilutions may affect apparent contrast. I'll be doing some experiments, but if any of you have any more info about this for the Maco or any other lith devs, I'd still love to hear it.

 

Also: is the Moersch dev available in the U.S.?

In the same line of thought... ois it better to use contrasty or soft negatives....

or it doesn;t really matter?