Fidelity Elite Cut Film Holder 4x5

Hello,

I have just bought a great format camera 4x5�, and a Fidelity Elite

Cut Film Holder 4x5�. I usually take photos at night in the streets,

what implies a time exposure between 20 minutes and one hour. When I

developed the film, I could see that the photo was moved, and I

concluded that the film moved inside the Cut Film Holder, once the

exposure had started, then I had two different images superposed. The

next time I used the Cut Film Holder, I tapped on it, in order to

avoid that the film moved after the beginning of the exposition.

I measured the film and the Cut Film Holder, and I obtained the next

results:

Film�s size: 12,5 x 9,53 cm

Image�s size: 12,13 x 9,53 cm

Inner size of the Cut Film Holder: 12,70 x 10,05 cm

Is my chassis normal or has it any defect?

Do you know any other chassis that keeps better the film on its place?

The film is not the size that appeared in the box, is it normal?

Thank you

For precision film placement use Sinar film holders...unfortunately they are extremely expensive.

I use your method of tapping the holder to make the film settle,

for long or multiple exposures. It solved the problem of film

movement for me.

I think that there are no Sinar film holders for 4x5"

Thank you

Also, make sure your tripod is locked down and your camera has no wiggle between the parts as this will be affected when you use the shutter.

Carlos: If there are two distinct images then I don't think camera vibration or play would explain it. Though it has never happened to me, some have reported that the film can pop or shift half way through an exposure due to the change in humidity at the scene. (When you pull the slide the film finds itself in different humidity and responds to it.) The suggestions in the past (make sense) are to open the slide for a few minutes with the shutter closed so the film can do what it is going to do before the light strikes it. Also, some have suggested very weak adhesive (like on a post-it) in the middle of the holder. Good luck.

They are super expensive, but the only holders with complete film flatness and stability.

 

Here's the info from Sinar:

 

4x5 Precision Sheetfilm Holder

 

This heavy-duty all-metal holder is for situations where you need absolute film flatness and stability.

 

* Sinar engineering eliminates the �weak link� in 4x5 view camera precision.

* Film is held in place by a two-stage pressure plate instead of just floating around in the holder.

* Tolerance of the film plane is just ±0.03mm no matter what emulsion you use.

* Three cutouts along the edges of the film holder allow the imprinting of copyright notices with a litho film insert.

* Adjustable dials can imprint two digits along the edge of the frame.

* Indicators show whether or not the holder is loaded and whether the film has been exposed.

 

 

5x7 and 8x10 Adhesive Film Holders

 

Lightly adhesive septum provides vastly improved film flatness for larger formats.

 

* Patented design achieves a level of precision never before possible in 8x10 and 5x7 photography.

* Film is held perfectly flat against the holder, which results in noticeably sharper images.

* Film is prevented from shifting within the holder, making it indispensable for multiple image work.

Carlos: In practically all holders made today the film is held within a grove made by a lip above and the septum below. That grove must be slightly greater than the thickness of the film.

The ANSI spec gives dimensions for the grove's opening but in some holders those dimensions are larger than the spec calls for, including the Toyo holders I have tested. A larger grove makes film insertion easier, but allows the film to wander. Additionally, the grove must be larger than the thickest films, i.e. colour films. (Colour films are 0.001" thicker than negative films). Accordingly negative film is more likely to wander within the groove. Another problem arising from too large grooves is mis-registration. Even if the septum meets the requirements for depth accurately, a too generous groove will allow the film to move towards the lens and cause a registration error. If you insert a spare sheet of film into the holder�s grove and find it too loose try attaching to the lip that forms the grove two tiny slivers of thin adhesive tape (two on each side ) and see if the film is still easy to load. DO NOT put the tape onto the septum for that will change registration. My testing of a batch of 10 Fidelity elite holders indicated excellent compliance with the standard for septum depth (5.00mm), but do not recall the results for the groove openings. I use colour films also and perhaps because of that I have not had the problems you mention since there is always a very slight curvature to the film which may be enough to keep it in place.

 

Another type of holder has spring-loaded septums (no groove) such as the old Precision Linhof holders. With them, the film is held under pressure by the septum and the film can�t wander also ensuring best registration. The Linhof precision film holders are no longer made, are expensive and hard to find. The Sinar 4X5 holder is built to a high precision, +/- 0.0015" septum depth. Sinar 4X5 holders cost about $600 each. Sinar's 8X10 film holders have an adhesive backing that keeps the film tight to the septum. There is little you can do to correct a film holder and unfortunately, some are far from precise including quite a popular brand. Finally, Schneider makes (or used to make?) a vacuum back out of desire to have their lenses deliver the best sharpness of which they are capable.

Carlos,

 

Are you shure you did not load 9x12cm film into 4x5inch holders???

 

Be aware of the fact that we here in europe often have the choice between 9x12cm and 4x5inch (10.16x12.7cm) dimensions of sheetfilm.

 

Also the film size you measured: 9.53x12.5cm is strange, too big to be 9x12 and too small to be 4x5inch.

 

Tapping the holder (just before exposing the film) to get the film seated is always a good thing to do.

 

Huib

I have seen a number of the Sinar precision holders go for quite

reasonable prices on eBay.de, the German eBay site. Someone

seems to be selling off a batch.

 

You can make your own by using Post-it note glue or a similar

low-tack glue to hold the film into the holder. The easiest way to

do this with your current setup would be to use a 9x12 sheet of

film and stick it inside the opening of your 4x5 holders.

 

You can get a double image from a vibration, particularly if it is

constant over a long shutter speed like an hour. In a harmonic

vibration the vibrating object spends most of its time turning

round at the two endpoints of it's travel, so an exposure will build

up most there.

Carlos, You could possibly convert a double cut film holder into a vaccum back by drilling some small holes through the septum, hot glueing or cementing one of the dark slides in place after fitting a small brass tube through the darkslide handle end and fitting it to plastic tubing and a bulb or maybe a veterinary syringe. The sealed side goes on the gg side of course, remove the darkslide on the film side and apply the vaccume before tripping the shutter---in theory it should keep the film in situ. Good luck!

http://www.sciencecenter.net/hutech/pentax/vacback.htm

6x9/45(horseman-special vacum-back)

p67-vaccumback

i dont know if the 4x5-vaccumback is integrated in the astrocam.

schneider once has made one. max. 2000 chf. no response from the silly photographers...