Paper choices in Alt processing and display considerations.

I am currently using Platinotype Natural as supplied by Bostick

Sullivan for my current Ziatypes, and am wondering what you PT/

PD printers use. Since this is the only paper I have experience

with, I want to ask about other papers that would probably be as

applicable to the Ziatype print as well as to the PT/PD print and

what you think about yours. My paper seems a little flat, but I

guess that's just the look of the Ziatype print. Still I wonder if

other papers have different looks and charcteristics.

 

Second, I find that my paper doesn't dry flat, and now that I am

getting ready to frame I am questioning the way to go. I dry my

prints on a screen and at the point where they seem not moist to

the touch but still requiring additional drying, I move them onto

paper and use my contact glass plate to flatten them over night.

They still seem to retain a wave in the paper and so I wonder if

you have the same problem.

Wayne, add 2 drops of PVA to the solution and you wont get the dull drydown platinotype has. Clay gave me this tip and it works wonderfully. I also ordered socorro and I hate this paper, very hard to get even skies. In another thread Carl Weese recommends Lenox 100. I have not tried it, but if he recommneds it I guess it is worthwhile to check it out.

 

As to the drying, sure mine do not dry flat either, and there is no other solution than a mounting press to get really flat paper. At least is what I do and it works very good.

Wayne,

I flatten all my palladium prints in a mounting press for about a minuteor so and have had no problem. I tried lennox but it worked better as a blotting paper! Couldn't get it to work at all as Socorro. I use a Cranes 90# paper I get from Ryuijji Douglas out in Calif. It is whiter than the nat. but not as bright as the regular white version from B&S. Cot from Bergger work ok too

Good luck

Cranes Kid Finish 32# is about the most versatile paper I've found. I've used it with salted and albumen prints, argyrotypes and ziatypes. Dries flat, stays flat, but has a somewhat annoying watermark.

I use platinotype as well, and dry in a drymount press at 200 for a few minutes. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, Pt prints will look quite flat unless a very contrasty neg is used, may not relate specifically to the paper. I've never used PVA, and don't find flatness in my prints (you can see them at www.platinumportrait.com if you have any interest. They are developed out and not zias) I like the consistency of Platinotype, only prob has been the occ black speck. As is usually the recc for silver printing, I would choose one paper/developer combo and stick with it until you're pretty confident, and then try experimenting.

 

Finally, if you don't have it, you might consider getting Dick Arentz's wonderful book. It gives a very learned and specific discussion of many of the papers out there, all based on personal testing.

 

Best regards,

Nathan

Hi Wayne,

I've been using Soccorro paper from B&S with excellent results. It air dries nice and flat with little or no curl. It has an ivory base I prefer to the white of the Cranes. Try it. You might find it to your liking.

Peter

Cranes is a very easy paper to print on but does not yeild very good prints unless double coated. But due to poor wet strength, it is easy to abrade the paper on the second coat and have white flecks showing through. The brighter white version is called Distaff White. A much better paper is Fabriano Uno. It is brighter white, responds well to NA2 contrasting agent and is very smooth with good wet strength. You must first treat it in a 1% solution of oxalic acid to neutralize the alkaline buffers incorporated in the paper. I have been using it for palladium/platinum, gum-over platinum and mutli-layer gum. It has replaced my old favorite, Arches Platine/Cot320 as my standard paper. You can buy it at a great price from Daniel Smith in Seattle.

Thanks guys; Can someone give me an idea of waht they paid

for their mounting press? And the other stupid question; What is

PVA?

I have been using the Platinotype white paper (can't find the book right now & can't remember the exact name) and getting good results. Did get some of the natural and use it for some prints that seem to look better to me that way. In learning the Ziatype process from Richard Sullivan I saw how he did with it and that has helped. I found the larger prints work better for me using the puddle pusher instead of the brushing as the brush abrades the paper. I also found that having my darkroom at 60% humidity a couple hours before printing & holding it here made a big difference in the final result. A lot better having the paper stabilized at this humidity. (distilled water in a humidifier does it here)

I have experimented with a few papers but like the platinotype as it works. For flattening I put them in the dry mount press for a couple minutes & that helps a bit.

Hi Wayne,

 

I have no problem with flattening Crane's paper. Just keep it flat with my others prints before matting.

 

For the choice of paper I think you should consider Arche 's platine or Cot 320 (about the same ) and Buxton. They both have a different look and work great with PoP and DOP. I also use BFK rives, and a lot of japanese paper.

Socorro isn't y prefered paper as I find it a little bit too cotrasty.

Wayne I have seen the mounting presses go for a couple of hundred on E bay. As to PVA it is poly vinyl alcohol, B&S sells the 10% solution and 50 ml will last you a life time. It's effect is the opposite of tween 20, it makes the paper less abosobent and the emulsion stays on the surface as opposed to being abosorbed more as it happens with tween 20. Since I started adding PVA I get very nice crisp shadows, which I felt they were rather dull without it.

Jorge,

 

What paper are you using with the PVA? My tests on Platine show that it actually reduces dmax, and otherwise the curves plot out almost the same. The biggest difference is in the shoulder area, where the PVA coated paper goes to mush.

 

The straight coated Platine has much better shadow seperation than the PVA coated Platine. Of course, each paper will produce different results, so you really have to try it out.

 

My current paper is Platine for large prints, and COT320 for 8x10 prints. I find it a much better paper than Platinotype for the image and results I want to get. Plus, I like the heft and wet strength of the paper.

 

I also like the color of the paper. I find the natural Platinotype too tan, and the white too bright. The Platine is a nice cream color, and is 'juuust right'.

 

I started on Platinotype, as it is a good, cheap paper to start with. Some people (like Dick Arentz) are using almost exclusively the Platinotype paper, so it is definately a viable paper for high quality prints.

 

I've tried some Bristol Rising, Lenox, and a few others, but haven't worked with them too much. The Fabriano Uno needs the precoat with Oxalic acid, and I think is also sensitive to RH, so it requires a bit more care. I've seen some great prints on it, though, so it may be worth the effort.

 

 

---Michael

Hey Michael, I am using cranes platinotype, but you have already graduated to the good papers. A friend sent me a 5x7 printed on COT 320 and I was amazed at the beauty of the print and the quality of the paper. The same friend recommended I start using arches platine, but he said there is some QC issues with the paper. Seems sometimes the production has some flaws in the paper and you get some black dots, I would be very pissed if I print a 12x20 and get them dots. I would love to try COT but at 20x24 size I would have to use 1 sheet for each 12x20, that would break my piggy bank in a hurry.

 

So anyways, I found 2 drops of PVA per 72 drops of emulsion ( FO+PD) give me much better D max than without the PVA. When I was using platinotype without PVA after the drydown the shadows still showed detail but looked flat. With PVA the same print the shadows look very nice and deep.

 

Although as you say Arentz uses platinotype, I agree with you, there are much better papers than platinotype.

I spoke to David over at B&S and received a few different papers

to try. Right now I'm experimenting and will post a followup

based on what I find. Thanks all for the help.

Wayne, did you do the testing on the other papers and if so what were your results? Would be interested in what you think of some of them.

Dan after trying B&S's variety pack, I found that I like the Cot 320. email me at waynecrider@hotmail.com. I can't seem to get your email address from Photonet.