Almost No Words: Decisive Moments..

Hi. The above was done with a rangefinder(ok, m4p, 50 cron). Its not

exactly a decisive moment per se because I planned for it. I waited

for the mother and son(daughter?) to come in and move across and at

the same time caprtured the looks of the ols man and middle gal.

 

I could have gotten more decisive shots in this little time span with

my F80, in addition to the "flap flap flap flap" from its shutter.

 

With the rangefinder's viewfinder being unobtrusive, I find it more

fun to use, and more close to reality. You actually stopped the

action as you saw it.

 

 

I think I did post the above once, but its about the only one I

deemed fit for this topic.

 

 

Btw, what is a decisive moment?<div></div>

<p>If you think "flap, flap, flap" is bad, Travis, you should try doing street photography with the "KERCHUNK" of a Hassy. ;-) </p>

 

<p>As to what a decisive moment is, I'd say it's that one instant that tells the whole story, and then some. It's that few milliseconds after the boxer's glove makes contact, when the hitee's face distorts from the impact, and the sweat is flying. The wince of the Viet Cong prisoner, or the anguished cry of the student at Kent state. Or, the little dog by the woman's legs looking up and saying, "What? You lookin' at me?" Or, when the statue is between blinks. ;-) </p>

 

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<img border=2 src="http://www.rbarkerphoto.com/Leica/RosiMus111502-22-l550bw.jpg">

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Here ya go. Good night all...<div></div>

OK, one more for the road...<div></div>

with detail...

 

and Good night, I really mean it this time.<div></div>

Travis....I agree with you that your image is not "exactly" decisive

but it is close. Don't sell yourself short though....the so called

decisive moment is not, in my experience, a completely random

affair (right time/right place). Your "planning" that you very nearly

apologize for in your post, is part of your instincts for anticipating

or feeling the potential in a closely observed space or scene. My

favorite part of your image is the girl (second in line) glancing

backward in juxtapostion with the man's face in the poster

sharing the same glance. The potential you saw in the printed

faces just needed the added ingredients of some flesh and

blood in a seemingly choreographed way. Your timing, framing,

exposure settings, intuition, life experience, attitude

...etc,etc,....are all equally as much a part of the decisiveness of

an image as what is actually happenning before you.

decisive unplanned. the little devil squinted and made faces, just enough for the planned cuty shot to look weird and not enough for me all busy with the focussing to really notice.

 

patrick<div></div>

Patrick, f**^%^ good shot!

Nara, Japan,1989. Non planned, M 3, Summicron 2/35mm with goggles, flash.

Okay, here's mine:

<I>"Hi. The above was done with a range-finder (ok, m4p, 50 cron). Its not exactly a decisive moment per se because I planned for it. I waited for the mother and son (daughter?) to come in and move across and at the same time captured the looks of the old man and middle gal." </I><P> Guess what Travis, that process of picking an interesting background and then waiting for interesting foreground action to complete the image was a technique often practiced by H. Cartier-Bresson and his imitators-- and also of high end sports photographers whose work you see in magazines like Sports Illustrated or from Olympic Coverage. And then he would take one or two frames. capturing "The decisive moment" doesn't require a 'shotgun' approach (use of a motor-drive) or of stealth. It requires a recognition of just when to release the shutter, of when the elements come together. With a motor-drive the decisive instant might come between the frames.

Roland,

 

that's a couple of decisive moments! And the deer really has absolutely no connection to anything in the picture (like some sign that all is happening in a zoo, e.g.), the pic looks absolutely surrealistic. Nice!

Travis, I defintely agree w/ Martin (?) and the other fellow, that a decisive moment can be planned, meaning that if you're looking at a situation and it is "almost", if you can visualize what in your mind's eye could make it better and unobtrusively wait for it to happen, it in itself becomes a, or the decisive moment for that situation. You afterall had the foresight to see the situation. You just waited for it to be "right"... and you made the photograph.

 

And yes, your being there and click of a camera can in effect change or alter the situation, but it takes practice and also some pure chance of being in the right place at the right time to get the right moment. As my mentor says, "It takes practice when making photographs to appear as if you are 2'4" tall when you are actually 6'4"." This is something I've been trying to overcome, b/c my very presence in a situation often alters it b/c of my height... so the previsualized moment I had as I'm approaching a subject often changes from what I had anticipated. Where the practice comes in is eventually developing an idea of how people will react to you (doesn't always hold however) in similar situations you've been in before.

 

When I travel however, it puts me out of my element. Ex: I very often shoot documentary/street projects in NYC and often have to go into situations where I anticipate (and actually do encounter) some resistance from subjects while they are being photographed, so the results I get are usually what I expect. When I went to South Beach Miami in November, I was walking down Ocean Drive and Collins Ave with a camera around my neck and two on my shoulders and noticed that people actually liked being photographed. I would walk up to a group of people put the camera up to my eye, and the dynamics I was used to: apathy, anger, complete oblivion etc. changed to animation, smiles, subtle dramatization, etc. I would end up smiling more than my subject b/c I was tickled by peoples reactions. Anyway, happy shooting!

I have actually another question in mind and it has been bothering me for quite awhile. That question is in no way related to this topic but I'd thought I share with forumers here.

 

What happens when you encounter an interesting group of subjects in the midst of an activity (work or play), and you wanted to shoot them in action, but were to be rejected. And if they'd only allow you to do so (shoot them) ONLY IF YOU PAY THEM?

 

I have not personally encountered a situation like this, but it bothers me. If I'd to pay to shoot, it'd sure take a lot off those DECISIVE elements whatever there may be.

 

I hope you understand what Im saying. And Im asking if you'd still do it. i.e pay to shoot. Is this morally right? Im not talking about paying studio models for a shoot. Im talking about ordinary street folks minding their own business.

 

This should be a separate thread, but as it would affect the DECISIVE ELEMENTS, I'd thought I just bring it in here.

 

Anyone come across this crazy situation?

 

I'd be morally and photographically devastated if i'd had to PAY to shoot for moments.;(

The decisive moment is when content and composition come together to make the most satisfying image.

 

You showed us yours, so here's mine.<div></div>

Here's another one of those decisive moment.

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/1141866

Nice photo Travis! HCB used to wait for the 'decisive moment' to occur before pressing the shutter.

Travis-- In the course of travel and street photography I've rarely

paid a subject. And never, never, never if my intent was for

editorial usage. The communication and barter negates just

about any context for "decisive moment". "Decisive Moment" for

me, generally translates to "unaware." However, there have been

a few times when I've been highly intrigued by a face or person in

a context, generally outside of the U.S. where the standard of

living is much different, and agreed to pay a mutually agreeable

amount for the opportunity if the person has asked. But for me,

the situation has then become about something else, usually

more along the lines of a portrait, and has little or nothing to do

with a captured, unaware moment. The business transaction

has transformed the context, and a commercial element has

been interjected.

I saw this little girl walking past the flowers, and then realized that her dress matched the pink flowers, her collar the white flowers, and her snack bag the yellow flowers. I swung up my zone focused 35mm lens and shot blind.<div></div>

Someone, it might have been David Vestal or maybe Ted Orland said that the decisive moment was when the picture looks the most like a 19th century battle painting.

Travis, you sure are this weeks' champion of interesting threads.

 

For me "decisive moment" comes down to nano seconds of creative

decision making on a intuitive level. Pictures that taken a split second

before, or after, loose some of their magic. The picture I attached was a

totally unplanned candid taken in Paris. I went up to photograph my

wife, and this stranger walked into the scene. Instead of waiting I

recognized the opportunity , waited 1/2 second longer, and shot. I never

took the shot I originally intended.

 

Now, I could've used a different camera, set this shot up and paid people

to play the roles, but I didn't. That a (Leica) rangefinder was used

contributed to taking the shot right at the decisive moment. With the RF

viewfinder I could see him entering the frame before he was in the actual

film area. And when I shot the camera did so immediately.

 

Finally, I get paid on a regular basis to shoot "decisive moments":

wedding photojournalism. It doesn't currupt your soul at all.<div></div>

Our daughter is listening to my wife talking about Altzheimer's. Decisive moment???<div></div>

Marc,

 

Your picture above talks a story beyond the circumstances that lead you to take it. I quite like it really.

 

Emmanuel

Regarding your question about being asked to pay subjects to photograph them, Travis, there are a couple of aspects to consider.

 

First, as already mentioned, any negotiation and payment obviously alters the dynamics of the shot(s). That may or may not be what you are looking for.

 

The second aspect to consider is the legal element in the particular country. In the U.S., for example, its an interplay between the use of the image and the location. Images taken in a public place and used for editorial purposes do not require a model release. Shots used for commercial purposes (e.g. product ads and such) require a model release (or, in some cases, a property release). Here, there is no "expectation of privacy" in a public place (as defined legally), so street shots used for editorial purposes are fair game, and don't legally require the subject's permission. (Size and burliness of the subject, and how fast you can run, can have a practical effect, however. ;-) ) Once taken, however, you have to be cautious about how those street images are used.

thx Ralph ;)