I Think Schneider Deserves The LF Community's Loyalty

I'm still not going to buy Japanese Lenses.

 

I still don't trust salesmen. 9 out of 10 of them in every field of commerce have lied to me and tried to sell me what they wanted to move off their shelves .... not what I needed.

 

A small clarification: I didn't say I was going to buy Schneider because they have a slick website and it's not fair to twist my statements to sound like I did.

 

Sorry for having offended so many. I hereby humble myself before the assembled forum and beg forgiveness.

 

Scott Fleming

River Run Ranch

Texas

Whether it's the website or the other support you receive from Schneider Optics USA, you are paying a big mark-up for it. If that's what you want, fine. I don't understand what salesmen have to do with this discussion.

 

It�s sounds to me like you have a hidden agenda, since you said you would not buy �Japanese Lenses� rather than say you will only buy from companies that provide the extra support you want, and are willing to pay for.

Loyalty? What do you mean by that?

why should i be loyal to a Company? I wonder how many loyal

employees they have fired this years for downsizing.

"Schneider Optics USA and HP Marketing are the US distributors for

Schneider and Rodenstock products respectively"

 

Schneider USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of the factory. HP Marketing

Corp. is not a subsidiary of Rodenstock or Linos (the owner of Rodenstock

Precision Optical).

Scott;

 

I, too, have not yet purchased any *new* LF lenses, but am in the looking stage. My suggestion, based on the years of experience described in the many responses, is one of two approaches:

 

1)Continue to increase your knowledge of the various products being offered by manufacturer's information, and the experience of users of such products on this forum, prior to making a costly and long term investment, or:

 

2)Make a blind decision based on nothing more than illogical brand loyalty or some other intangible; then continue to make further expensive purchases over the years, in a "brute-force" method of trying to figure out what lens fits your needs, without ever attempting to learn from those who have gone before you.

 

Perhaps those who have been harshest to you in their responses are envious that you *have* such a wealth of information at your disposal to make an informed decision. Maybe they didn't have this resource at their disposal when they were new to LF, and are sore about it. In any event, its good that we have their experience to go on in making such decisions.

 

I also think there's an infinite number of images out there to create. Its not a "closed game". No one should feel protective of the truth and knowledge. However, as newbees, we should be very humbled and envious of the wealth of experience that these more experience folks have. Perhaps their message to us newbees is that there's no easy road to the path of learning. That said, however, you should still make as intelligent a decision as possible.

 

Its either that, or this forum is for naught.

OK you didn't use the words "slick website". But you said you were giving your loyalty based on the statement "Schneider Optic's website is a veritible encyclopedia of info ". And that with Nikon "One has to be a regular net Sherlock to find anything meaningful about these lenses" There were no other reasons given. But you are entitled to purchase whatever products you choose and if truth be told I and I'm sure most everyone else here has bought products based on less than logical reasons.

Take care and have fun with your Schneiders

Scott, you sure walked into a hornets nest with this one! I commend your studious approach to making wise purchases. There is never any harm in asking many questions... of course, sometimes experience is mandatory in making the right decisions. Don't get discouraged by this thread, it appears more people are responding to your tone vs. your issues. Your not the first one to get blasted in this forum!

 

You wrote.... I and any other sensible consumer will be far better off indeed not doing business with any provider who resents questions, analysis and discrimination.

 

I can totally relate to your position on this issue. In a perfect world this would be a great way to do business. However, as you know, the LF world is far from perfect. And it will only get worse...with digital sneaking up on us, you can expect LF lens makers to focus less and less on LF lenses in the future.

 

So the bottom line is..... when you need a lens of a specific focal lenght, you research the market and find which maker has the product that best fits your needs, i.e. performance and price. Unfortunately, you can't always find the same lenses from all the makers in the same fl. So your main focus should be on meeting your needs first, then making your purchase dollars count as a vote in the LF lens industry.

 

As for your comments on hard to find information... Well compared to other industries, I totaly agree with you, but I think you don't realize just how tiny the LF lens market really is. This makes it even harder as companies are not looking to invest dollars into a division that is dealing with such a small and limited market. I may be wrong, but I don't think Nikor or Fuji has introduced a new LF lens in at least 7 - 10 years.... this shows their committment to the market. It's almost impossible to speak to a knowledgeable LF lens rep in USA for Nikor or Fuji. Yes it's hard to beleive these two companies can not at least maintain current brochures and make them readily available or copy them and post them on a web site. Seems like a simple fix, huh. But both Nikor and Fuji are in my lens arsenal, why? They make lenses that Schneider and Rodenstock do not make...and I needed those lenses...it's that simple.

 

As for your comments on Schneider, I agree....they clearly have the best web site on LF lenses. Quite impressive indeed. I commend them, and as you can see they continue to produce new LF lenses every year, so they seem to be here for the long haul and you can not go wrong with thier lenses.

 

Rodenstock, in my opinion, is a bit behind Schneider in web site access. Still not sure why HP does not maintain a Rodenstock web site in USA that is easily accessable in English and contains all the revelevant data. But maybe they will in the future. HP is very responsive in sending out marketing literature, even if you are one of the many who have engaged in war in these forums with Bob S. (trust me, I know) Their brochures are very thorough.

 

Anyway, good luck in your venture and be careful not to loose sight of what is most important - you get lenses that best fit your needs, i.e. price and performance. I doubt the designation of your dollars will have any impact on the LF lens makers. IF your unsure after reading the brochures, then post some questions about those specific lenses. Experience in the field is invaluable....and that is the beauty of forums like this, you can call upon many experienced users that you ordinarily would have no access to in your community, so take advantage of it. Hope this helps...

geez...you know I didn't have a hard time ordering two brand new Nikkors (300 & 120) at work a couple of years ago...I didn't need any fancy marketing info for the decision--we went on it based one the reputation of the lenses and actually got them on our contract for Nikon Professional equipment. As an in-house studio with a fairly large Nikon system to begin with, my experience has always been positive with Nikon customer service--even this past week, they've been very helpful to us. We've been using their lenses for almost 20 yrs here, either in small format, back in the lab, and now on our 4x5s. I've been working on a project for the past year or so, and we've shot over 2 cases of Fuji 4x5 chrome film alone using that 300mm lens mostly, although we own 2 each of Schneiders and Caltars (which I suspect are Rodenstocks). Those Nikkors are top notch and a joy to use with the big image circles.

 

This guy is a gear fanatic, sorry no offense here, but when you dismiss people who tell you all you need is an old Ektar or whatever--you fail to see the point. It's large format--you don't need spiffy new optics if you're not doing commercial work, or working in color--just my opinion here, of course--hell, I've worked in studios that shot chrome film everyday and used Wollensaks and Ektars....my advice would be to learn how to use the camera and spend your money on buying truckloads of sheet film if you want to SUPPORT the large format community! The only way to SUPPORT it is to insure that sheet film is going to continue to have a market, and I don't mean by buying a 25 sheet box once a year....end of my rant, here's my disclaimer:Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the policy of my agency

Texas! Ohhh.....that explains it.

<i>Texas! Ohhh.....that explains it</i><p>

 

hey, hey,hey....easy boy! or we will send a stampede down your way. Probably when you are taking pictures of one of those houses of ill repute....:-)).

oh boy...

 

scott, do you even own a schneider lens? how 'bout a fuji? how 'bout a lf cam?

 

mmm hmm, thought so...

 

me

 

p.s. damn that new 6.8 looks ginchy... anyone know the price?

 

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/neuheiten/an_su_68_90_e.htm

ginchy?

I'm closing the deal this very afternoon on three domestic Schnieders: A Super Symmar XL 110, a SS XL 210mm and a Super Angulon 72mm XL. Thanks for asking.

Hey Fleming, remember I asked first to borrow the SS210 XL....

like most texans i know...

 

more money than brains...

 

but not you ellis,

 

me

Waaait a minute, weren't you the one who complained about being robbed on a Linhof tech V because it went for something over $3000 with lenses? and now you are telling me you have ordered about $4000 to $5000 worth of glass and you do not even have a camera yet?....

hmmmm......I gotta check that Schneider site if it is that good to make someone do this!

I just could not bring myself to drop 3700 for and old camera and O L D lenses. It still bugs me as I am in communication with the guy who snaked me and the camera is MINT. He still has O L D lenses.

 

AND ... who said I was buying new lenses? AND ..... who said I did not have a camera yet?

If they are not new lenses, then what happend to all that Schnieder loyalty you mention? Maybe fuji and nikon are smarter, why should they give you the benefit and spend their money building a web site with all the info so that you can turn around and buy the lenses used?

 

I dont wish to make this a flame war, but dont you think your stance is a little hypocritical? You started talking about how we all should buy Schnieder lenses and support them because of their wonderful web site which provided all that information for you, and now you turn around and buy the lenses aftermarket with no benefit to Schnieder?

Jorge,

 

... Heaven forbid if the reason the person is selling them is because the seller is going to buy new lenses from one of the other big 4!

lol....I dont know Michael, I would kill for one of those Super Symmars 210 XL.....hmmmmmm....where in Spring Branch you live Scott?

I thought you were looking at 4 x 5. That SS XL 210 has HUGE coverage at 500mm and has a copal 3 shutter and a weight of 4 1/2 lbs. Not a lens one would think of for 4 x 5 unless *maybe* you were using a big monorail in the studio and even then it would be total overkill. Not to mention you could buy 2 normal 210s less than the price of 1 SS XL. Oh well...

I would not do that. I made sure the seller was a true disciple. He's gonna take my money and put it in a Rollei. %^0

 

x-Act-2: http://www.rollei.de/en/produkte/index.html

 

Why buy new when you can get 40 or 50 off on the latest stuff?

 

Now come on guys. I apologised earlier. Give me a break. I won't publicly trash your NikonFujiHorseman glass a n y m o r e. Really.

 

Oh, and your a trunk line or two off on the ISP trace. Any of you want to come on out ..... if you promise to be nice ...... we can shoot wild flowers come April. I'll take ya around.

scott...

 

this is yer ass... and this is a hole in the ground.

 

got it?

 

me

You callin me out or are you just being silly?