long (ish) lens question

I looked through the archives and got more confused.

 

I have a horseman 45 FA and use it to shoot 6 x 9 roll film and am

looking for a long lens. I'm guessing something in the 210 mm to 240

mm range. It would be used for landscape and maybe some portrait. My

favorite long lens in 35 mm work is 105 mm and this "look" is what I'm

looking for, for the 45FA / 6x9 work.

 

According to some info I've found, this is around 19 degrees angle of

view, which translates to a large format lens for 6 x 9 of around

250mm.

 

I am limited by a bellows ext of around 249 mm, So the question is

can I use a 210mm lens (a little wider than I think I want), and if

so, how

close can I focus? How much bellows ext is needed to focus for a head

and shoulder shot? OR, If I go the route of a 240 tele How much ext

will I need at inf focus, and how close can I expect to be able to

focus?

 

And then there is the question of shutter size. The 45FA has small

lensboards and the front standard is small with a hole a hair bigger

than 60mm. There is not much finger room with a copal 0. I can only

guess that I'll need tweezers to operate a copal 1. And do I need a

protruding lens board?

 

I'm leaning towards a 240 tele. There are no stores around here to

look at this stuff first hand, and I'll most likely be buying used.

So I'm grateful to you for any help and info you can offer.

Look at the 10" Tele-Raptar.

Dee,

 

I think you will need a telephoto lens. Consider that Horseman 45A has a quite small lens board, you have the following selections:

240/5.5 Schneider Tele-Xenar, 240/5.5 Schneider Tele-Arton (second version with small rear lens cell), 250 Zeiss Sonnar (may not fit your lens board), 270/5.5 Schneider Tele-Arton (second version with small rear lens cell), and Nikkor 270/6.3(?) T (this lens is multicoated). Cheers,

Dee, you have enough bellows to use the Fujinon f9 240A. Apochromatic, small, light weight Copal 0 shutter, very sharp, 336mm image circle. The lens will fit the flat lensboard on the Horseman 45FA, and should be ideal for 6X9, doing the type of work you describe. I use mine on a Toyo 45AII. A Tiffen Soft FX, or similar type filter, makes it into a great 3/4 length portrait lens. A tele lens is not the best choice for portrait work. A 240 tele will need less bellows extension, but it has a shallower depth of field. Look at Midwest Photo Supply (mpex.com.). They list the Fuji 240A under 8X10 lenses. They usually have new and used ones in stock at very reasonable prices. Call Jim for the best deal.

Dee, your bellows extension of 249 mm will not allow you to use a Fuji A 240 mm lens for portrait work, I'm afraid. You could focus a 210 mm plasmat such as the Apo-Sironar on your camera, but these lenses are quite big and heavy, in Copal 1 shutters. Have you considered the 200 mm Nikkor M lens? This small lens is mounted in a no 0 shutter, and I should think it could perform admirably for portraits. Robert White has it listed so it may still be available new. I currently use a 180 mm plasmat for 6x9 portraits, and though your needs may be different I would think that 250 mm is getting a bit long. For example, depth of field will be quite limited, and head positioning more critical, than with a 200 mm lens.

Dee, while you are looking at the Midwest website, check out the Fuji 300T. It's a fairly light weight telephoto lens, mounted in a Copal 0 shutter. It uses approx. 195mm bellows extension to focus at infinity. I still believe that your camera has enough bellows extension for the Fuji 240A. The tele is not the best choice for portraits, but it is a great lens for outdoor work.

This is the easiest one I have had to answer in ages. I had my Horseman 4x5

FA sitting here trying to see if an unidentified screw that was in the bottom of

my bag when I unpacked the other day belonged to the camera. So, I

mounted my 240mm Fuji A and checked it out.

 

I focused on a lamp made from a fire hydrant with a white globe "head" that is

7.5 inches across. From 13.5 feet away (I counted off the tiles on the

workroom floor) I got a nice sharp image .. .could have gone a hair closer.

The resulting image on the ground glass was a "loose" head and shoulders

shot if you are thinking portraits; keep in mond that it would be a bit tighter on

6x9, I was not paying close attention to the 6x9 marks on the GG, sorry. Not

scientific but works <smile>.

 

As for 210 v. 240 my recommendation is go for the 240 by all means. My FA

is my light travel kit and if you look in the archives here you will see lots of

comments about same. Basically when I am traveling ultralight it is the FA

and 2 lenses. One of those lenses is ALWAYS the Fuji 240 A. The other is

either an Apo Sironar 135mm (most usual) or a 110 Super Symmar XL. BTW I

have tried larger lenses on the Horseman boards and they just don;t make it

.... for example I tried mounting two different 240mm lenses in #3 shutters and

it is ONLY possible if you have a special board (I have one but it is still too

much of a pain and too front heavy to make it sensible). I'd be happy to post

pictures of both the board and what the lamp picture looked like ..

approximate only on the lamp as it will ahve to be a digital pic ... I have not yet

got my scanner reconfigured for my new computer. Let me know if you want

and I can send the pictures of the lamp and what the special modified board

to mount a large lens looks like.

 

Bottom line go for the Fuji 240 A it is your best bet. You can still get them new,

although they were discontinued a few months ago, from Badger. On all

counts this is one of my favorite lenses.

On more thing. I'd like to add, that when I had my 45FA and shot with a 210 W Nikkor I mounted the camera on the front flap via an Arca Quick release shoe. Otherwise the whole assembly is not too secure. G.

I use a Linhof 6x9 Technika IV which also has a small lens board and because of the posts holding the lens standard, allows little room for a large shutter. Even a Copal 0 is a very tight fit. I have found that the older Synchro-compur shutters fit just fine. I have a 240 Tele-arton and a 270 Tele-arton that I can use on this camera, the former having been original equipment. If the Copal shutters are a problem, look for and older Technika lens that has a synchro-compur shutter.

 

Ron Gratz

Ted �

 

What are your experiences with the Fuji 240 A on the FA? I would have thought that a 240 lens was a little long for the FA's rather short bellows extension. Obviously, you are happy with the combination, but could you speak a little more about your experiences with movements with this combination?

 

Thanx!

 

� Bill

Thanks for all the advice and info. I still don't know what to do! I can only afford a used lens and it would be the last one I get for a while. So I won't do anything until I'm sure of what I want. Again, My main use for the lens in question is landscape, But I had hoped to do some portrait work.

 

So, after reading your responses I have some more questions. Does a tele lens, by design, have more compression, (shorter depth of focus), than a lens of the same focal legnth thats not a tele?

 

In measuring with a ruler from the film plane to the front of the focus rails on my camera, I have around 180 mm of ext with the rails all the way back. This leaves about 69 mm of focus. (If I use a 180 mm lens.) If I use a nikkor 200 mm M lens, then I'm left with 49 mm for focusing. How close will I be able to focus and stay inside the 249mm ext allowed? How fast is it? I don't shoot wide open, but for focusing purposes I like a fast lens.

 

George you've peeked my interest with the 180 mm for portrait as this is the size lens I orginally considered to be the next one I buy. How do you like it for landscape work? If you use it as such.

 

Thanks again for all your opinions. I'm still several weeks away from a purchase and will ponder some more and surf the sites mentioned. Any more ideas are welcome. I'll let the list know what I decide on.

Dee, I'm waiting for Jim, from Midwest Photo, to return from Japan next week. He is going to bring back a Fuji 180A for me. If he can't find a pristine used one, he will bring a new one. They are rarely available on the used market. I will be using it for 4X5 on my Toyo 45AII. I'll let you know how it compares to the 240A as soon as I've had the opportunity to try it out. I think it's too short for portraiture on 4X5. May be usable for portrature with 6X9, however. A tele lens does compress and has a smaller depth of field than a non-tele design.

In reply to your question about the Nikkor M 200 mm lens, using the formula 1/f=1/u+1/v, I calculate that you should be able to focus down to 3ft 4in with 249 mm bellows draw. Actually a bit closer, because the flange focal distance of this lens is given as 194 mm. At f/8 max aperture you will be able to focus just fine. I understand that this lens is corrected for distance work unlike the Fuji A lenses which are optimized for 1:1 to 1:5 magnification. When they are used at f/22 this doesn't seem to matter, and the 4x5 fraternity speak very highly of them for landscape work. But for 6x9 work I rarely use f/22 because diffraction takes the edge off sharpness at apertures smaller than f/11, and although I have not used these lenses I suspect that they may not be quite as good for 6x9 work at say f/11-16 compared with a lens that is optimized for infinity. I cannot understand why for a given focal length, depth of field should be any different for a telephoto compared with a non-tele design. I find the 180 lens excellent for landscape - it is roughly equivalent to a 80 mm in small format. Happy choosing!

Dee, I did once have a 45FA and was able to use a Fujinon 300T without problem. For landscape work, this lens served my purpose well. In answer to your question about DOF (and by this I mean depth of field and not depth of focus, which is something entirely different), a 300 tele lens will have pretty much the same depth of field as a 300mm lens of conventional design. A tele lens for view cameras permits infinity focus to be attained while the physical center of the lens is roughly a distance of 60% of its focal length from the film. This is because the optical center of the lens is virtual and actually is in front of the lens. What this means is that a Fujinon 300T will only require a bellows draw of 180mm to focus at infinity. You do require a little more for movements, but remember, you have at least another inch of bellows behind the camera body. There are some other issues you need to consider though. Tele lenses typically have less coverage. When used at close range, they sometimes require exposure compensation (exit pupil factor). Rule of thumb: If the the size of the image on the gg is more than 1/10th of the actual size of the subject, you need to start adding exposure.

Little late for commenting. I own the Horseman FA. You have 249mm of front bellows and can add a 25mm Horseman lensboard to give you 274mm of bellows(you still have 23mm of rear bellows also if needed). I use a Horseman 25mm lensboard for my Nikkor 360T lens (requires 261mm of bellows to focus at infinity) and I can focus with this lens with the tele lensboard down to 12-13 ft(can't remember which). It is just enough to do head and shoulder portraits if you use the rear bellows. However, check out this site, and never worry about bellows issues again (you will have more then any other field camera). You can see the camera mounted with approximately a 100mm tele lensboard, and also if you want to spend the money a additional bellows can be added to the back (cost same as a extra lens). Bellows length is a false belief by many, you can mount all the lenses you likely would ever consider.

 

It takes a 75mm,90,150,Fujinon A240, G-Claron 210 or 240, Fujinon300T, Nikkor 360T. If you buy a longer 100mm tele lensboard you should be able to even handle the Nikkor 500T that requires 349.9mm of bellows, although useful only for distant landscapes (not for closer focusing because after all the extensions your left with about 23mm to spare).However, if you buy the bellows extension, look out! The 65mm is listed by Horseman to also fit, but I feel it would be very tight.

 

Adding the Fujinon A240/9 to your list of lenses as Ted says is a piece of cake.