Dream 4x5 Camera with Three Lenses: You Vote

Just to prove that I have credibility to be on this thread with you

Advanced Guys with all this incredible photographic gear, please

review my finely-crafted, precision-geared, masterpiece called

The PlungerCam. It's on my site. <P>

 

http://marktucker.com/plungercam/ <P>

 

It is now in the Home Depot Hall of Fame, with endorsements

from Liquid Nails, Vivitar, and Stanley Tool. Many cheap drill bits

valiantly gave their lives in the spirit of Creation. I showed the

lens to the main Hasselblad Tech Designer in NYC at

PhotoEast, and he laughed at me to my face. He politely turned

down my request for Hasselblad to patent my device, (as he

rollled his eyes to the guy standing next to him). <P>

 

Mark Tucker <BR>

Redneck Product Designer

For lenses, the notion of power factor:

- normal based on diagonal length of film

- 1/2 normal for wide

- 2x normal for long

My personal experience is that even when using T-Max, images look better the less they are enlarged. There is a reason why so many product shots and food shots are taken with an 8x10. The difference is there, even when the image is printed in a magazine. It's up to you to decide where to draw the line.

 

You can resolve your scanning/resolution issue without having to buy any more equipment. Just take a photo of a brick building from far away, using both cameras, on an overcast day. Use the films of your choice. Scan them and see what you get. If the difference is negligable to you, then choose accordingly.

 

Keep in mind that when you shoot with most large format cameras, you get view camera movements, which affect the sharpness of images and allow you to shoot many scenes with the lens open much wider. If you often shoot "near/far" images with a medium format camera, then you're probably using either a wide lens, or stopping it down to the point where you're tossing out image quality.

To David Caldwell,

 

How is the AS asymmetrical? The Orbix is a lens axis tilt feature that really only is on axis with no front rise. Yes, if you used rise then the lens tilt would be "asymmetrical" but only if the tilt is in relation to the nodal point of the lens. Asymmetrical tilts and swing work best on the GG since the camera designer can measure exactly where to place the pivot point. Every lens has a different position for it's nodal point; the only camera I know of that could be adjusted for different lenses was that carbon fiber camera from a few years ago that did not stay on the market for very long.

Mark, Michael Reichmann's web site has two essays on the "need" for large format.

 

Pro LF: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/4x5.shtml

 

Con LF: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/LF-Con.htm

 

-Tony

This morning, I made a list of all the lenses that were

recommended on this thread:<P>

 

47XL SA<BR>

80XL<BR>

110XL Super Symmar<BR>

55 APO Grandagon<BR>

58XL<BR>

90 4.5 Nikkorv

90 Grandagon N<BR>

210 APO Symmar<BR>

240 APO Ronar<BR>

210 5.6 Nikkor W<BR>

240 Fuji A<BR>

72 XL<BR>

75 SA<BR>

100 APO Symmar<P>

 

I then sent that list to three trusted friends. Here is one

interesting response. I wonder if anyone else would add to this.

Since I shoot mainly BW, and prefer "funky" to anything too

"clinical', his suggestion made me take note, and also to

research these older Goerz lenses. For example, the whole

reason I bought the 4x5 was so that I could shoot it with my

cherished (and funky) F2.8 Komura 152mm. My fantasy is a view

lens that's about f2 or even 1.4... With absolutely zero depth of

focus.<P>

 

<snip><P>

 

<i><b>

 

Mark, Don't buy any of those new fangled lenses. Look for a

gold or red dot Dagor, Artar or some other ancient glass. That

newer APO stuff can take the magic out of a shot. Unfortunately,

those old Goerz lenses don't come very wide. Widest I've seen at

a glance in Shutterbug is the 3 5/8 inch F 8.0 WA gold rim Dagor

in Rapax synchro shutter at $500 at Brooklyn Camera Exchange.

Ken Mar Camera has a 4 3/8 inch Dagor F8.0 for $400. I don't

know anything about those lenses. <P>

 

Dumb ass me sold the best lens for you; a 135 Protar F2.0. It

didn't have any coverage at 4X5, but the bokeh was worth the

light fall off.</i></b><P>

 

<end snip><P>

 

Does he make a valid point? Can these old lenses be mounted

into modern shutters for convenience of operation?<P>

 

Thanks, Mark Tucker

Mark,

 

I own and use the Ebony 45SU with a 75mm Grandagon WITH a recessed board. If you do not like recessed boards then probably the Ebony folding series of cameras would not make you happy.

 

I CAN use the 75 Grandagon without the recessed board but it is a hell of alot easier with the recessed board.

 

Good Hunting,

To answer the last question, you go no further than www.skgrimes.com. If it can reasonably be put together, Steve's your man. Nearest thing to a modern religion on this forum. Might check with Jim at Midwest - he often has a bunch of old barrels listed on mpex (www.mpex.com) (If I don't refer you there, Eugene will! :). Might see (have) something you like, and Steve might be able to get it in a shutter for you.

To Paul,

 

Yes, i agree about Mr. Grimes. We've been emailing each other

today. He sounds like a magician and a craftsman.

 

I found a bunch of older stuff too at Glenn Evans' site:

 

http://www.glennview.com

 

I really wish I could RENT some of these lenses and actually

shoot them before I bought something. Maybe Lens and Repro

would have enough in rental.

 

It's so hard to really picture in your mind what people are

referring to when they say "that uncoated Dagor" quality. I would

go for old and flared any day, but somewhere in the framed I'd

also like something to be razor sharp.

 

Thanks, Mark Tucker

"Does he make a good point?"

 

Not on the wides. The older designs can't begin to compare to modern wides optics that were available in the 60's, let alone those available today.

 

One case that can be made for older wide-angles is for 8x10. The weight of current wides goes into multiple pounds. You don't need as much enlargement for 8x10, so some of the older wides can produce excellent results, like the W.F. Ektars.

 

As for longer focal lengths, you can find very fine lenses, like the Dagor or Red Dot Arter in older lenses. But, there are obviously very fine lenses available that are made today. In fact, some of the older lenses, like the older gold-dot Dagors, bring higher prices than current used models in the same focal lengths of lenses made today.

 

Also, you left one recommended lens off the list: a 360mm Schneider-Dagor MC. This is a modern lens made in the 80's from a formula that was patented in about 1895.

I previously supplied an answer in which I spoke of the Arca Swiss having an "asymmetrical" lens tilt feature. A reader questioned the accuracy of that description, in which he stated that the option was merely center axis tilt. My understanding is that Arca Swiss offers three options: base tilt, center axis tilt, and the "dynamic" tilt (asymmetrical) option.

 

Mark Tucker also asked about which three lenses would be "best," and later posted a list of the recommendations. No one mentioned the Schneider Apo-Symmar-L lenses that will replace the current Apo-Symmars, beginning January 2003. Accørding to the current issue of View Camera, Nov-Dec 2002, p. 48, the front element for the Apo-Symmar-L 120 mm focal length will have a front filter size 52 mm; the 150 mm focal length a 58 mm front filter size, the 180 mm focal length a 72 mm filter size, the 210 mm focal length a 77 mm filter size, and the 300 mm focal length a 105 mm filter size. The 135 mm focal length has been eliminated. I do not see how anyone can consider these varying front filter sizes convenient for landscape photographers. My personal preference is to choose lenses whose front filter size does not exceed 67 mm. For example, the 75 mm 4.5 Rodenstock, the 110 mm XL Schneider, the 180 mm Rodenstock Apo Sironar or current version of the Schneider 180 Apo-Symmar, the 240 mm Schneider G-Claron, could all be fitted with a 67 mm filter. A step ring could then be used for lenses with 49 mm front filter size.

David, It does look like there's been an increase in filter size for the L series. Also these are larger than the Rodenstock S series, across the board. Plus from what I have read these are going to be replacements to the old series not in addition to as with the Rodenstock N and S series. So this might get to be a concideration to field photographers. I'm not sure I'd agree with 'I do not see how anyone can consider these varying front filter sizes convenient for landscape photographers' That would mean adding weight to the lenes the didn't require larger filters in the interest of unity (as is the case with the newer Fuji CM/W lenes). I prefer to make the choice myself and use step-up rings.

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about the Tech

IV.

 

After having it for a few days, I'm sending it all back.

 

It's an engineering marvel, and it's amazing how it unfolds, but

it's too quirky for serious picture-taking. The knobs are just too

tiny and finnicky for me. I want a big round knob that's easily

findable, without having to hunt for it.

 

I'm sure this camera was perfect as a press camera, but maybe

not so hot for my shooting style.

 

Thanks everyone,

 

Mark Tucker

I had $50 that said you'd do just that.....;-)

I think you and that hassy are life long partners.

I am also an Hasselblad shooter, forget 4x5, go to 8X10 like me, with a 150XL schneider(in a future for me), a 300 apo rodenstock (actually), and a 600 fuji (soon,I hope) .

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

We have a resolution here. Finally. I got an Ebony 45SU from Jeff

Wheeler at Quality Camera in Atlanta. I got the award for the

Customer Who Stayed the Longest and Wouldn't Leave.

 

I was headed to Atlanta anyway to research the gallery situation.

Then when I found out that Jeff was an Ebony dealer, then that

was the clincher.

 

It was funny how it all happened. I didn't really like the camera

when I first played with it; I'm not sure why. Maybe I was scared of

it. I looked at all the other cameras, and almost decided on a

metal Toyo 45 field camera, which was nice and simple.

 

But it was the possibility of shooting with the ultrawide lenses,

plus the overal simplicity of the camera and the knobs that

sealed the deal finally. Jeff put it on a tripod, we went out in the

parking lot, and within five minutes I knew that was the camera.

So simple; just grab that big lever to move the front standard.

The rise and fall were also super easy to deal with, without

having to look around to the front.

 

At first I didn't think I'd do a lot of movements, but once I started

playing with this 75mm lens, and I saw how I could throw the

focus so easily, it became clear that the Ebony was the one.

 

So, again, thanks to everyone who contributed to this search.

 

I must say, in addition, if you guys have never been to Quality

Camera in Atlanta, it's a great experience. It's set up in an older

ranch-style home that's been converted to a business. Very

warm and cozy inside. Beautiful prints on the wall. Cameras

everywhere to touch and hold. Jeff obviously loves photography;

ask see his office where his photo books are stored, you'll see.

You can read and research and ask questions on these boards,

but there's nothing like the luxury of being able to go to one

place, see various cameras in person, throw a lens on them,

and actually work with them. Plus Jeff is super-low-pressure; he

knows these cameras are just tools for making images; the

cameras aren't there to be worshiped or admired; they're just

tools. So his head is in the right place.

 

All in all, I feel excited to start working with this camera. I took the

old road back from Atlanta to Nashville, and stumbled on a

gorgeous old diner in Chattanooga at sunset. I whipped off the

road, threw the camera on my lame tripod, and was shooting in

no time. I love the Hasselblad, but I also look forward to learning

from the different workflow of the 4x5.

 

-MarkTucker

 

http://marktucker.com

So...What glass did you end up with to go with the Ebony?

You don't wanna know about my lenses. I think I was born

upside down or something, because my taste in imagery is

pretty different from a lot of the guys who want to read Lens Test

Charts, etc.

 

My "magic" lens is an old funky 152mm Komura f2.8. I like to

shoot it wide open and tilt it to throw focus.

 

I did buy from Jeff a used Schneider 75, but I'm almost regretting

it already. It's "too good".

 

I'm going to experiment with maybe putting my loupe lens on it

and see if it'll cover. Or else, Jeff told me about some

single-element glass; the more primitive the better. But that

Ebony is so sweet because of all the movements; I can get stuff

where almost NOTHING is in focus, which to me, sometimes

makes a pretty nice picture.

 

If anybody knows of any uncoated glass lenses like that, I'd love

to know about them.

 

MT, http://marktucker.com