lenses and flash

Hello! We are looking for advice from experienced photographers about

the buying of a camera and lenses to begin with. We are total

beginners, but we plan to learn a lot in the coming year, while

making photos on a long trip. After some research, we think we will

buy the Nikon F80 with in any case a 50 mm f/1.8 lens and a 70-300 mm

zoom lens. We have enough money for one more lens, and we have

trouble to decide. Our two options:

1. a 28-80 zoom lens

2. a 'static lens' of 24, 28 or 35 mm (something like f/2 or f/2.4)

 

The 28-80 seems to give more flexibility, but since the specs are 3.3-

5.6, it will not be very usefull at low light. On the other hand, we

already will have the 50 mm lens with f/1.8, so maybe this is not

really a problem. On yet another hand, the 70-80 mm range is covered

by the 70-300 zoom lens, the 50 mm point is covered by the 50 mm

static lens. It seems like it is not really important to be able to

cover the 51-69 region, and likewise the 28-49 region, provided we

have another (wide angle) lens of 28 or 35 mm.

 

What do you think? We will be using the camera mainly for travel

photography, we like photographing buildings (that's why we consider

a wide angle lens), people and animals, etc. Any recommendations are

welcome!

 

Another small question: the F80 camera has a built-in flash. We don't

know much about photography. Do we need an additional flash or is it

good enough? Also considering the extra weight and space... is it

worthwile? In what situations do you use it?

 

A last one: what exactly is the difference between a 70-300 mm ED

lens and a 'normal' 70-300 mm G lens? In what situations is it

essential?

 

Thanks a lot in advance for any information!

 

Arjen and Edith

It sort of depends on the type of trip you're taking and how light you need to travel. For my kind of travel I fly, have a rental car, and heavily depend on a relatively light Bogen 3001 tripod with a 3262QR (Quick Release) ballhead. I mainly use three Nikon lenses, an 18-35, a 60 micro, and a 70-300D ED. The 18-35 is the most used by far, followed by the 70-300.

 

The best thing you can do is handle the camera and a couple of lenses to see the differences in focal lengths first hand. 28mm isn't really that wide for many things. If you're in tight confines it will be hard to get all of the building in the frame. A 24mm fixed focal length will be a little better in both distortion and lens speed, and will offer a wider angle of view. However, the most important thing when photographing building is to keep the camera level, square, and parallel.

 

For animals even 300mm can be too short unless you're in a zoo or a National Park. The differences between a 70-300 D & G lens, besides a couple hundred dollars, is the G doesn't have an aperture ring, metal lens mount, that one ED glass element, and build quality. Picture quality isn't bad at all but in the one side by side comparison I saw it wasn't quite as good as the D ED version.

 

The Nikon 28-80 kit lens is probably the best performing kit lens from any manufacturer. I have one from the previous series but don't really use it any more because of my other lenses. I did use it exclusively for several months and it worked very well.

 

I suggest you also consider the Nikon 28-105. The range at the long end is better for people and it's a better lens in all respects than the 28-80.

 

The little pop-up flash is better than no flash, maybe. I got along real well without a proper flash until I bought all the lenses I needed.

 

Don�t forget the other things, like a tripod and head, remote shutter release, circular polarizing filter, lens cleaning stuff, and a bag. A decent tripod is the single most important piece of equipment to enhance both picture sharpness and composition.

 

If you have the time before you leave I�d say get an N80 with only a 28-105 lens as this will be your most used focal length range. After getting familiar with it you�ll know if you�ll use 70-300 enough to spring for the D ED version over the G, if you really need something wider, something faster, or you can�t live without a flash.

Dear Arjen and Edith.

I too travel very much with my cameras and I can tell you that I often just

leave a 35mm prime lens "glued" to the body.

35mm is an extremely versatile focal length for travel photograhy and you

can get a fast lens in a relatively small package, that you will be very glad of

in low light conditions.

When you have plenty of light during the days and wish to have just a little

more versatility, you'll be able to slip on a zoom.

 

Hope this helps, Duncan

www.aviationmission.com

Your 50mm and 70-300 lenses are good choices (go ahead, pop for the ED zoom instead of the G).

 

Consider three wide angle choices that are not terribly expensive.

 

The 35mm f/2 AF-D Nikkor (I would not be inclined to buy this one used, because of a design problem that leads to a stuck aperture, but a new purchase should be okay). This lens takes beautiful pictures and with its f/2 maximum aperture it is great for available light shots.

 

The 28mm f/2.8 AF-D Nikkor, the latest evolution of a 20-year-old Series E wide angle design, is a great value.

 

The 24mm f/2.8 AF-D is another very cost-effective, high-quality lens.

 

The 24mm is probably the most logical addition to your kit if you follow the rule of thumb that says buy lenses whose focal lengths vary by roughly a factor of two. Its focal length will give you delightful wide angle landscape and scenery shots, and it is wide enough to capture interesting perspectives in interior shots as well. When shooting with such a wide angle lens, you do need to be careful about the potential for distorting straight lines (hence the advice from another poster about keeping it level, parallel, square to your subjects). If you point it up at a stained glass window, oops, all the walls start to converge at the top of the frame. Point it down at a canyon and the same sort of world-bending takes place. That can be fun, of course, but it may not be the look you want, so take care to keep it oriented properly to its surroundings to minimize the "bends."

 

The 28mm and 35mm lenses are easier to use because they exhibit less of this tendency to turn straight lines into curves.

 

On this forum lots of folks tend to shrug off the 28mm focal length as neither fish nor fowl, not enough of a wide angle to thrill. I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment. Time was, a classic three-lens kit for general purpose use was a 28mm, a 50mm and a 105mm. The 28mm is dead simple to use, doesn't want to turn your trees and skyscrapers into silly putty like a 20m or 24mm lens, and it certainly offers a wider view of the world than your 50mm lens will.

 

The 35mm lens is perhaps too close to your 50mm lens in perspective, and you already have a fast-aperture lens in the kit for low light. Besides, I'm miffed at that lens design... I have an older one with the unfortunate oil-leaking-on-aperture-blades problem. So skip that one.

 

If your long trip will include time for relaxed, contemplative picture taking, go ahead and add a Bogen (aka Manfrotto) tripod and some sort of tripod head to your kit. Tripods allow you to take advantage of the really interesting light early and late in the day. Handheld shots in midday light are fine but lack the depth and drama of morning and evening light. Just before sunrise on the beach when the world turns crimson, you'll need 1/2 second or 1/4 second shutter speeds to capture the moment and (speaking for myself) handheld shots at that speed don't work.

 

Extra flash? Well, for pictures of people, any camera's pop-up flash is just too close to the lens axis to avoid redeye. You'll get better results with the SB-50DX or SB-80DX, if only because the light source is a few more centimeters above the lens so redeye isn't a factor in people at the typical 2-3 meter distance from your camera.

 

Have fun,

F80 is full featured for the price, but if you're "total beginners", you could spend about $175 less on an N65. You'll be missing a few features, but probably nothing that a beginner would need. You can use the savings on lenses, which is where the real quality of your photos come from. www.photozone.de and the B&H site both have comparison chart so you can pick out the differences between the F80 and the N65.

 

Both the N65 and the F80 take advantage of the AFS lenses. Consider the 24-85mm AFS zoom. Very fast focusing. The 28-105mm (not AFS) is little longer, but not as wide, and only saves you a little vs. the 24-85mm AFS.

 

I agree that the 70-300 ED (non-G) is worth the extra money. The "G" lenses do not have an aperature ring. I don't believe the aperature ring is used either on the N65 or the F80, so it's presence or absence has no effect. I think the 70-300 is essential for travel photography. That and a standard-range zoom like I mentioned above.

 

I'm also a big fan of the 50mm 1.8 or the 50mm 1.4 (AF). Sometime you need the extra speed (like church interiors without a flash or night scenes).

 

As a warning, my experience is that 28mm is just not wide enough for buildings in cities. I used a lot of foul language in New York before I got my 18-35mm ED AF. If you can squeeze 24mm out of your zoom lens selection, your frustration in architecture photography will be significantly less than if you were limited to 28mm. (I love the 28mm for landscapes and more wide-open spaces....)

 

"Is the built-in flash good enough?" It depends. (Don't you love that answer?) My suggestion is to try the pop-up flash. If you like it, great. If you wish you had more power or other options for reducing red-eye or whatever... then begin your search for an optional flash that meets your needs. I have found that the pop-up flash (on my N70) is just what I need for travel. (and I do own other flashes that I will leave at home or in the hotel room).

 

My personal preference for general travel photography lenses, in order of importance are:

 

1. My 24-85mm AFS (or 28-105 AF)

2. My 70-300mm ED

3. My 50mm 1.4 AF

4. My 18-35mm ED AF (great for buildings in tight spaces, like NY)

 

Primes are great, and I have 12 of them. However, if I've got to limit my bag to a few lenses, I typically go for flexibility. A $300+ Nikon zoom gives nice results and saves you the hassle of changing lenses a lot when you're on the move.

I think the issue of lens choice has been well discussed, but there is a problem with the built in flash which hasn't even been mentioned yet. The little pop-up flash won't work well with long lenses because the barrel of a long lens will block the light from the flash. So if you want to do flash photography with a 70-300mm lens, or even the 28-105mm lens, you will end up buying the additional flash so it can "see over" the lens. This may affect your budgeting.

Opinions are usually worth about what you pay for them, but here's mine anyway (free).

 

I'd say, for your intended use (travel) to forget the 50mm. Although a good lens I think you'll find it will be left in the camera bag much more than it will be used. I like the idea of the 70-300, I think either will work for you with the N80 since it works well with the G lens and you expressed nothing to suggest you'd want to revert to an older style Nikon body in the future.

 

Instead of the 50mm I'd go with the 28-105 Nikkor...it is a very fine lens and will be one you can leave on the camera for the entire trip changing it out with the longer telephoto only occasionally. I would NOT worry about the range overlap. There are a lot of subjects that fall into the 70-105 range in travel photography and it is much easier to be able to use the lens on the camera than to be changing it out every time you need a slightly wider or slightly longer lens. To try to be more clear, if you are shooting a scenic, maybe castles in the distance you'll have your 70-300 mm lens on, you may want to include a little wider view of the surrounding mountains, valley, whatever, but it is unlikely you'd need anything wider than 70mm for most of those types of shots. Likewise, if you're inside the castle taking pictures of the features and cannons and such you're going to have the 28-105 on, you might want to zoom in on some feature up on a wall or something but since you're inside you probably won't need a lens longer than 105. If you just have a 28-80 lens on, however, you may not be able to zoom in as tight. You'd be suprised, esp. when you're on a tour that's trying to move along, how reluctant you'll become to change out the lens and therefore would miss the shot. Now you're down to 2 lenses for the trip--less cumbersome.

 

You asked about a flash. I think it is imperative if you're going to be shooting indoors at all. The pop-up is "OK" for outdoor fill-in but terrible for indoor as a main light--also, with the 28-105 lens and it's lens hood you get vignetting(?right word) from the lens hood...which you should use.

 

Finally, you didn't mention a tripod... although a pain to travel with I think it is imperative you have some sort of tripod. I backpacked for 6 weeks in S. America and just could not justify a big tripod..I took a $10 plastic thing that I tried to use without extending the legs and held it firm with my hands and did everything I could to stabilize it.

 

Practice a lot before you go with the film you plan to shoot so you know what to expect from your equipment.

--evan

Dear all,

 

Thank you all very much for your reply. After reading all your replies and the ones to our similar message on the Camera Equipment forum, and much contemplation, we decided what to buy. Because we always like to hear if people listen to us when we give advise, we tell you our decision, in case you are interested:

 

We will stick to the 50 mm f/1.8 lens and will go for the 70-300 mm D-version. Further, on this forum many people suggested the 24-85 AF-S lens and we will go for this one, after reading many positive reviews and considering that the 24 mm range can be very useful. We agree that the 17-35 mm range would be fantastic, but these lenses are so expensive! Maybe later...

 

We decided to wait a bit before buying a flash, because while we don't know much about photography, we don't really know what we need. We will start with the built-in flash and if it's not sufficient we will buy an additional flash later on.

 

We will however try to bring a tripod, as almost everyone insisted we need one, and also a head (though we must admit we don't really know yet what this is... something to connect your camera to your tripod?).

 

The battery pack seems to be good to save on battery expenses, but because several people suggested that it is heavy and bulky (for some people this is even the mere reason to buy the thing, for stabilising the camera!), we have decided not to buy it, at least not yet, because we travel very light and therefore don't have room to spare (a camera, three lenses, a tripod and maybe a flash will take up 25% of our luggage space, which is two 25 litre bags).

 

Thanks again for answering our questions. This forum has been very helpful!

 

Best wishes,

 

Arjen and Edith