Nikkor 500 f/4 + TCs w/o MLU, what sort of sharpness?

I currently do not have a body capable of mirror lock-up (S2 Pro) and

I've read all the photo.net articles on mirror lock-up etc. I'm

seeking to upgrade my lens for the purpose of getting better bird

photographs (longer focal length and hopefully less shake due to

tripod collar). I'm currently using the 300 f/4 AF-S (the nightmarish

flexible tripod collar)+TCs

My question - a 500 f/4 AFS-II + 1.4xTC or 2x TC:

Without mirror lockup can I still achieve sharpness at 1/60 shutter

speed ? Based on the lighting conditions i photograph birds in, i

encounter shutter speeds regularly as low as 1/60.

With the 300 f/4 AF-S+ TCs (the bouncing/flexible tripod collar),

1/60 is visibly blurrer than 1/125 [tripod/cable release at brick

wall test. 1/30 is awful.

I am aware that tripod/head combination also pays a part so that is

something i may have to upgrade in the future (currently

acratech/manfrotto)

thanks for reading, any help appreciated.

If you like birds, here are some recent kingfisher pics (wild) with

300+2x: http://members.tripod.com/~tsc/photos/kingfishers5.htm

Well, I'm Canon guy, with limited-having some though, experience with long lenses. I'd like to point you to <a href="http://www.naturfotograf.com/AFS300_test_images.html">http://www.naturfotograf.com/AFS300_test_images.html</a> and to show you where your problem with 300/4 AFS comes from.<br><br>

You should not expect anything good with 1000mm lens on less than rock stable tripod PLUS head combination. Arca B1-B2, Wimberly, <a href="http://www.naturfotograf.com/burzynski.html">Burzynski</a> also looks great.. Camera support will help but slow down a lot your work also.<br><br>

BTW: Great pics Erwin!

I used a 500/4 AFS + TC14E + TC20E at shutter speeds as low as 1/60 and

found the results to range widely in quality. I have many slides which are quite

sharp when using the 1.4 tele but very few good shots with the 2x tele. My

feelings are that the 1.4 tele can be used without shutter lockup very nicely,

but on windy days or if poor long lens technique is not followed, you will

experience some disappointing results. The relatively light weight of the 500/4

lenses doesn't contribute to sharp pictures very easily unless the rules are

followed. The 2x tele is always with me, but is not used very often and kind of

held in reserve for when 'Bigfoot' walks out of the underbrush one day.

For birds, I've never seen the need for MLU on a long lens, shutter release yes. 1/60th isn't fast enough to freeze birds without flash unless they are frozen staring at you (not the compositions I like).

Know what you mean about the tripod collar on the 300 AFS f/4 (not unlike the one on the 80-400VR), but if you tighten down the collar and leave it that way for a day, then tighten down again and leave it for a week to crush the felt, a significant amount of play is eliminated.

I use the longer Wimberley C-30 clamps on my Kirk BH-1 and full Wimberley gimbal heads and balance the lens+TC+camera on the heads and the effects of wobble are significantly reduced if you use long lens techniques. Try crushing the felt and balancing your 300+2x on your existing pod/head and use some long lens damping techniques and see if you can get 1/60th to be useable on a brick wall test. If you can't make that work, your pod/head won't be much better with a 500+1.4x.

A TTL fill flash with a flash extender is another way to freeze the motion if you aren't ready to upgrade your tripod/head.

I use the 500/4P plus 1.4x and 2x converters. The technique problems you will wrestle with are not because of mirror lockup. The whole assembly itself is quite long and heavy. It will overwhelm any tripod head, including the Arca. I now use the Kirk King Cobra head, which works nicely, but still with the whole thing balancing by the lens tripod foot, there is some vibration. You have to use good long lens technique, which in this case means keeping your hand holding steady weight on the top of the lens, to damp out vibrations.

MLU is simply not the biggest problem you will need to worry about.

I have tried a 500mm f/4 with a 2x convertor on an ArcaSWiss balllhead. At 1/250 second it is pretty sharp using good technique. Also, good at 1/125, but technique must be near perfect, not just good!

I also had a chance to try this combo with the Sidekick attached to the ArcaSWiss bh. It seemed somewhat more stable, but I was not able to try and test it for long enough to say for sure.

Yes, MLU is a problem to worry about. There is a great article about this problem and long tele lenses and converters on Poelkings web site (www.poelking.com, "sharp photographs" or something like that), a detailed test with a Canon 500 IS with/without converters (and with/without stabilisation, so it´s good for us Nikon guys as well). The essence was that MLU is a much better and sometimes the only means to reduce vibrations than the IS; and that Poelking wonders about the Asian mind why you can´t use both at the same time in your brand new 1V. - just found the article:

500/4 with 2x extender, camera horizonally (makes a difference!): tack sharp pictures even with 1/4 s. Camera vertically: sharp (but not tack sharp) pictures down to 1/4. So Poelking claims.

If you are photographing living birds I can't imagine why you would want

mirror lock up.<P>Get a Wimberley head and a good (gitzo 13xx?) legset.<P>

I also strongly suggest you get a really right Stuff or Kirk Arca-Swiss compible

QR foot for that lens and converter combination.<P>If you put a piece of

padding between the foot of the tripod collar and the barrel of the 300mm f/4

AF-S you'll cure the stability problems.

thanks to everyone for your replies

As for the 300 f/4, with a 2xTC, knob tightened and padding placed between lens/mount, i photographed a brick wall at 1/30, 1/60, and 1/125. I could see a discernible increase in quality as the speed increased. There was no wind. I would therefore assume that this is due to mirror slap.

For photographing birds, i often encounter low light conditions requiring 1/60 shutter speeds. I also photograph many birds that are so still that pre-focusing and gaining additional sharpness through mirror lockup are feasible - eg: Kingfishers. Sure I can blast them with flash as main light to increase sharpness, but i would like to increase the variety of types of bird photos i can take.

Heres a photo of a male olivebacked sunbird (wild), on a heliconia using the flash as main light. 300 f/4 + 2xTC :<div></div>