Phototrips with children

Since the previous posting about taking children along on phototrips

has been nuked by the forum police, I will ask this question again. :-

)

 

Does anyone have personal experience with bringing children along on

a (foreign) phototrip. I would be specially interested in experiences

from people who have taken little children to Africa. Since most

users of this forum are not fulltime professional, I guess many of

you must know the situation where a (foreign) phototrip must somehow

be combined with the family holiday.

 

How do you do this? Do you have the kids in the car all the time,

when using the car as a mobile hide? Do you leave mammy with the kids

at the campsite's pool when you yourself go photographing?

 

So far I haven't made any trips with our son (he's just only 8 weeks

old :-)). But in the past I have made several trips where I had to

combine a holiday with a phototrip. E.g. last year we went to the

greek island of Lesbos to photograph bird migration. I would get up

very early in the morning and spend several hours photographing

birds. Then I would go back to the hotel to have breakfast with my

wife. We could then spend the afternoon on the beach and early

evening I would again go to the local river to photograph for a few

hours. My wife would sometimes accompany me and even act as a driver

for me so I could concentrate on photography.

 

Curious to hear other people's experiences.

Regards,

Hans

If only there was an easy answer for you, Hans. In case you haven't already noticed, small children require constant care and attention. If you're with your family on vacation, you may have to settle for snatching a little bit of time here and there. Leaving him with your wife will work for short periods as long as you're willing to do the same for her, so she gets some personal time. Kids have their own time cycles for sleeping, feeding, etc. and don't much care when the light is good :-). Your time with them will revolve around these cycles. So say goodbye to Lesbos for awhile (had to work that in somehow).

Hans, you seem to know Africa well (I don't!) but I caution you to make sure you are not too ambitious or optimistic about extended travel with an infant. how will the child handle tropical vaccinations (if needed), extended air travel, and once at a game park, extended ground travel on bumpy roads? They should be in a child seat in aircraft and in land rover, etc. Was your wife planning a child care role for this safari or hoping to be a co-participant?

 

Having urged you to think about those issues, I hope you can work it out in a way that builds a positive experience for everyone. My kids spent a lot of time in backpacks while my wife and I hiked in the US, and we changed many diapers changed on hikes or on the tailgate of a small 4x4. We monitored infant's temperature, adjusting clothing and shade as needed (they can't regulate temperature as well as grown-ups) and watched their fluid intake, too. There are many memories for us of their wonder in new places, and for them as they grew.

 

Kids can be wide-eyed in backpack up until about 2, then must be paced to avoid overtiring or boredom until much older. Recently my 6-year has started pointing out flowers, insects, spiders etc. for me to "take a picture!" so I see the hopeful start to a new phase of shared exploration, however his hiking range must always be considered. I quickly learned to plan travel for the benefit of kid's experiences and pretty much forget about all but serendipitous photo opportunities. Sharing and passing on a love of nature is a better plan for kids than drafting a too-young assistant and burying the growth of a shared interest in what becomes forced tedium for them. Your idea of a morning or evening photo get-away for yourself is better than a too-early car ride or march for the infant, just remember and plan for the family time too. Sometimes you have to scale back your photo expectations to avoid disappointment, or re-think the destinations to match kid's ages and interests.

Good luck! Jay

Last year I spent 23 day in South Africa with my wife an our two daughters (1 and 3 years).

 

I�ve made many nice pictures, but my productivity was obviously much smaller then if was alone, but I already new that from the beginning.

 

For me, my children come always first, so I�ve made an itinerary suitable for small children, avoiding more then 300Km driving in a day, and I also trying to stay at least 2 or 3 days in each place.

If your family is cool and relaxed, they will be much more tolerant with you. Do not push things to the limit just to drive some extra 15 minutes to the next water hole. If your family gets bothered and upset, probably you wont be able to get focused on you photography any way.

 

Don�t count the photos you�ve missed, count the ones you�ve made.

Although I�ve made some photos in early morning or during nap time, when children were asleep, most of my images were made with the rest of the family near by. Some of them from the car (some times with every one but me sleeping) and others during very short walks near the picnic site or the beach ware we were.

 

Good luck.<div></div>

I'll weigh in a little on this issue as both a father of now almost 3 year old twins, photographer (too serious amatuer), and physician.

 

There are advantages to the very young age you mention. It is quite easy to carry an 8 week old in a travel child backpack. They tend to sleep the majority of the time as they like the motion and are comfortable in that environment...for the most part. Disadvantages: some are fairly obvious and outlined above. Others are not so obvious. I'd be extremely careful in planning your trip to avoid any areas where cholera, malairia and other such common diseases are endemic with such a small child. If he/she is still breast feeding there may be some added immunity from the mother, but the majority of prophylactic antibiotics and vaccinations are not available or effective for children that young. Further, should a child that young become ill your access to quality medical care may be extremely limited--do they even have sterile IV catheters in case he gets diarhea becomes dehydrated...what about adequate antibiotics? You'd better check that well before you travel. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do it, but much added care must be taken as regards food and water for both mother and child and for handwashing for all involved.

 

If you're staying in a hotel, and your wife is amenable, then brief forays on your own are going to be your best bet for getting quality photos. My production, since the birth of my twins, has dwindled dramatically. I simply can't work a shot for 1 or two hours, I can't sit around for sunrise and sunset--I'm needed by my boys to assist in feeding, changing, bed-time, baths, etc. I have to work around naps, be much quicker when we're hiking/site-seeing, and accept that my photography must take a backseat.

 

As someone mentioned above, this is not an easy question. Too much depends on your personal shooting style/subjects, your child, your wife, and your specific circumstances. I've traveled with my boys to Hawaii twice, Mexico, Germany, and driven the Al-Can highway with them not to mention numerous other trips within the US. I've managed to take a lot of photos while taking care of them, but probably shoot 1/4th the number of shots. Ironically, traveling long distance and in forign countries seems to be more difficult as they get older and more active requiring both freedom of movement and more attention from me--thus less attention that can be given to my photos.

 

Good luck, enjoy fatherdome.

--evan

Thanks for all the answers so far. Maybe I better give some more information. Our son is just 8 weeks old now and we are not planning any trips really soon. The first option would be in spring next year when he is almost a year old. At that time we seriously consider Lesbos again, since that place is perfect for a combination of family holiday and bird photography. I can do the photography on my own early in the morning (which is the best time anyhow) and still spend the rest of the day with the family. Another option would be the south of Portugal (Algarve) which is comparable, though not such a perfect bird location. Lesbos can be unbelievable.

 

My preference would be Gambia in west-Africa where the best bird photography can be done straight from the hotel garden. But it involves a 7 hour flight, very hot (but dry) weather and malaria precautions.

 

For sep/oct next year (our son will be well over a year old then) we are thinking about South Africa (Kruger). This was my wife's suggestion, since she misses Africa too!!! In the dry season the malaria threat is very limited though still existing. Infrastructure in Kruger is perfect and very well suited for little kids.

 

Many Americans seem to think that anything outside the US is to be regarded of lower standards and Africa is the absolute third world. Well, some places are. But infrastructure in South Africa is great, I guess as good as anywhere in Europe or America. Kruger offers many great restcamps, which are all well fenced. Most have restaurants, supermarkets, gas station etc etc. Some also have a nice pool. All have very clean toilets and showers. Also the water is perfectly safe to drink. You have the choice between camping and very nice clean bungalows. In fact if it weren't for our little one, my wife and I would much rather venture out into the Botswana or Zambia wilderness, away from all civilization and infrastructure.

 

When going to Africa, we always go for a period of about 4 weeks and we tend to stay up to a week at one place. In my opinion the only sensible option for photography anyway. So travel is limited and there is lots of time for leisure. Even without children my wife and I would sometimes just spend an afternoon at a cool pool when temps were too high. One thing that leads me to believe that doing such a thing is very well possible is the fact that we have met so many South Africans travelling with children in all ages. And we met them in places like Kruger but also in the middle Savuti. And the kids really seemed to love it. By the way we also met an american family doing a private luxury tour in Botswana. Their kids were sitting in the open landrover playing with their Nintendo!

 

One reason for us to want to bring our son to Africa is to show him the beauty of true wilderness. To have him see real wild elephants instead of the ones in the zoo. Hoping he'll love it as much as we do. By the way, in fact he has already been to Africa once. My wife was pregnant last october when we travelled through Namibia. :-)

 

One more thing about health. Of course we are carefull but there is no need to panic. Certainly in South Africa, medical care is very good and has very high standards. It's just not available to large parts of the population who can't afford it. But that is not too much different from the situation in the US. Of course we always have a well packed emergency kit with us. Complete with some sterile equipment. And my wife knows how to use it, since she is a specialized children's nurse.

 

So with good planning and common sense that part is not too much of a problem. Still I would love to hear more experiences on how other people plan their photography on such trips.

I think the biggest question is whether this is a family holiday or

a photo trip. How much is your wife prepared to take on the full

burden of looking after your son while you go off taking photos?

Will she, or he, resent the time you spend away from them or the

locations they have to go to so you can get the shot?

 

For me, my wife and our 18 month twins the solution was for me

to take photographs while the kids were asleep in the morning

and again in the evening. Finding a latitude where sunset

happens after bathtime is strongly recommended :-) At other

times I had a camera with me, but it tended to be small format

and I was daddy first, photographer second.

 

Staying in one area and covering it in detail worked a lot better

than trying to travel a lot, moving on each day. I could scout and

eyeball locations when out with the family during the day, and

then choose a spot to photograph depending on the weather

and the light when I was free to head out with a camera. Places

where you can use your local knowledge to predict good

opportunities will be more productive than sites that are new to

you.

 

My impression is that children love animals (ours drew our

attention - loudly - to every sheep in Scotland) but are completely

indifferent to grand landscapes. A bit of sand or gravel, some

running water, and a seagull, and they would be happy at the

municipal dump in Minsk. This makes life easy if you make the

effort to find them the sand, water and gull, and if you allow them

to simply play in their own time without being hurried on to the

next supposed attraction.

 

I agree that the health risks in the so-called third world are often

exagerrated, but at the same time small children are a lot less

robust than, say, teenagers. It sounds as if you are better

informed and equipped than most, so the only advice I would

give would be to learn the sensitivities of your particular child

since having twins has made it very obvious how much they vary.

While never tried this combination myself, I'd guess that one would suffer. It may be you, not taking some shots 'cause you're busy taking care of the baby, or your wife, taking care of the baby all the time.

Why not decide it'll be a family trip - keeping a good relationship with the wife can yield certain benefits :-) - first and a photo trip in a second place ?

I think Southern Portugal is great holiday destination when combining family and photography, but do not stick to Algarve. Consider visiting Alentejo (just North of Algarve) and probably Andaluzia (Spain).

Actually I was in Algarve last week, and I made a one day trip, with the rest of the family, to Doñana�

Although you don�t have endemic bird species, like probably you have in Lesbos, I believe that you probably would see more species in Algarve.

In Algarve there are amazing places, but there are others simply horrible with 20 floor hotels all over, so I suggest you to chose carefully.

(If you need help - e-mail me)

 

I�ve been three times in South Africa. Last year, because I was traveling with small children I decided not to go to malaria areas, so I focused on Western Cape, Garden Rout and Karoo. Although I haven�t seen so many animals like in Kruguer, I managed to see zebras, elephants, ostriches, penguins, many antelopes, including orix, chacal and many, many more�

Besides that I saw amazing landscapes and I was not a bit disappointed.

My daughters were old enough to take malaria prophylactic drugs, but the side effects were so strong that I chose not to take them to a risk area at all.

I loved to travel with them, and I wouldn�t trade the happiness to travel with my daughters for the best photo in the world.

Our nipper is 5 now and its much harder work with her now. She can't walk ten miles and is to heavy for the ruc sack. It used to be easy, my wife carried alix and alix seemed to take it very well. I would say it works till they have their own minds. Alix is very serious about not waiting 4 hours to take a photo. We spent a summer in Estonia when she was two and she seemed fine about getting uo early etc.

 

Harry.

Gee, this thread has attracted responses from a statistically high number of fathers of twins (Me? 8-year old boy/girl). For some reason, I thought I recalled Jay Piper had twins, too (I know we have MF Minoltas in common).

 

Hans, I have greatly admired your knowledge of Africa when reading your comments in prior threads. I also admire your urge to truly expose your child to all that the world has to offer. It reminds me of a cartoon here in the US called the Wild Thornberries, about a wildlife cinematographer, her naturalist/narrator husband and their kids. Each episode is about a different location I would love to go to, like Bhutan, the Serengeti, Sumatra, etc.

 

But in the nicest way I possibly can, I suggest you reread the earlier posts on this question. Each one has said that they put their family above getting the best picture possible. *The bottom line is that life and priorities change after you become a father.* It usually takes about a year for this fact to settle in. Give yourself that time before making plans for any big expeditions to remote areas.

 

My photography rate/focus/whatever has plummeted after the birth of my twins and they still call me 'picture boy'. I draw on my prior experience to the get the best picture I can, considering my constraints, rather than the best picture possible (and I like to think I do OK). But more of my pictures are now taken handheld, and trailing behind or forging ahead of my family on a hike, rather than on an outing separate from them.

 

I just finished my first trip to Europe, with my wife, kids and father-in-law (I know, I'm a %&%^*!@# American who has limited horizons, although I have been to the Galapagos, Amazon rain forest, Costa Rica, etc.) I felt out of place sometimes with my kids in tow, and drew some stern looks when they dared make any noise in restaurants. But I wouldn't have dreamed of not taking them. That's part of the glory of parenthood: Watching them discover new places.

 

But I wouldn't take them *at this time* to the Amazon due to all the medical/safety concerns listed above (and my wife is a children's physician who could also take care of them in an emergency). We just dream/plan on taking them to all of the Earth's wildest places when they are a little older and are mature enough to appreciate the subtleties someone pointed out earlier like the landscapes as well as the pretty animals. I haven't gotten there yet, but my guess is that's about 10-12.

 

All that being said, the truth of the matter is that 99 percent of the time, everything is fine when you take kids to the wilderness. A friend of ours is head of the Center for Disease Control's Southern Africa AIDS program. My daughter's 8-year old friend has had to get a new passport because of all the times she has been to Southern Africa. I admire the parents for their determination in not being detered from taking their daughter with them. (But I don't think the daughter went anywhere until she was about three.)

 

That determination comes from first hand knowledge, which you have of Africa. The question is whether you have that determination, and the ability to live with yourself if your child becomes seriously ill in a remote place against all the odds, all because you wanted to take them on a photosafari. In that respect, I am a coward, and so is my pediatrician wife. My hat is off to you, our friend from the CDC and the Wild Thornberries. But my advice still holds to wait a year before making plans for a big expedition to a remote area. You may feel differently after being a father has sunk in all the way.

Again, thanks for all the responses. Just to make it absolutely clear, as it may not be clear to everybody yet. The wellbeing of Floris (our son) comes first! Period. No picture is worth causing him any harm.

 

As to the health problems. Well, my fellow countrymen went to South Africa some 350 years ago. They were in an alien environment there. Still they have managed to raise children there for so many generations. It is not that what I am concerned about. And again, when you have travelled through the real wilderness in Africa, Kruger seems very much like a huge very well organized zoo. Still it is a wonderfull place.

When I was in Northern Pakistan a while back I met a couple

who lived in Kenya - they had a business tying fishing flies for the

US market - and had travelled by jeep and dhow to the

Karakorum with their eight month old son. They pointed out that

babies are a lot easier to travel with than toddlers. They are

more easily amused, don't wander off anywhere, and while

breastfeeding a sterile, norishing food supply is always at hand.

 

My own experience bears this out. Our two now get very bored

and fidgity if they have to sit down too long. Too much driving, or

too long a lunch and it's best (and fair) to find somewhere they

can just potter about under their own steam for a while. When

they could only crawl or roll, they were much less determined to

do things for themselves.

 

I wouldn't miss having had twins for the world, but I suspect one

reason this thread is full of twin parents is the way they

dramatically affect logistics compared to a singleton. It's much,

much harder for a single parent to look after both kids alone,

especially once they start to walk. Even as a couple you end up

isolated from your surroundings more than the parents of

singletons as there is so much more to keep track of. My wife

and I often wonder what parents of singletons *do* all day, and

joke that had we only one child, we'd cross the Empty Quarter

and the Patagonian ice cap in the same holiday.

 

Anyway, I agree that travel with your kids is a wonderful

experience and opens up new ways of seeing the world. Do a

bit of planning, indulge some common sense and go for it.

PS: if you're into birds, and you do choose southern Iberia,

consider timing your trip to coincide with the northwards raptor

migration through Gibraltar. Stunning.

Larry-

 

As a kid I was dragged all over North and South America by my Dad's expat position. I saw many fantastic things, particularly in South America. Only problem is I don't remember them as I was too young. I think as you say 10 is about the right sort of age for them to start appreciating (and remembering) the experiences they had.

 

Still, when I was young I had (and still do) a habit for exporing all the critters surrounding me and I think experiencing them at a young age made me the person I am today - even if I can't really remember how or why.

 

Oh, and I would agree with Han's assertion that compared to many places in Africa the Kruger Park is like a big zoo you drive around. Particularly when it's busy (school holidays especially). That doesn't necessarily detract from the wildlife, but it can. And if being really isolated is part of the essential experience for you, then skip it. Go somewhere like Etosha.

 

Many of my friends who grew up down here have fond memories of places deep in the bush where they went on holiday with the family, even when they were quite young. It's part of the culture down here, I guess. One of my friends even grew up in national parks in Zimbabwe, and whilst kids in many places might be skateboarding or riding bikes, he was out hunting various animals, helping dad with game capture, culls, walking around in the bush, riding around in Land Cruisers/Rovers and so on - a fantastic experience, I guess.

 

Whilst it is very worthwhile bearing the kid's health in mind, it is also worth bearing in mind the kid's personality. Are they going to get anything out of it, or like someone's earlier post, are they going to sit in the Land Rover and play their game boy?

 

The only way of balancing photography with a family vacation is either to do it when they are all asleep, or compromise your photography for the sake of the family holiday. You can't expect young kids to sit still in the car and not shake your 600mm lens whilst sitting at a waterhole for six hours...

 

James.

Hans,

thanks for asking the same question and good that your question didn't get killed by whomever rules this :-)

We've taken our son to overseas trips since he was only a couple of months; that was the easy part. Most of the time they just eat and sleep wherever they are.

When they get older (or son is now a active 3 year old) you need to keep them busy non stop; also food gets a little trickier; on a scuba diving trip to the Red Sea we took canned food for our son for the total 2 weeks. So even Egypt -notorious for diseases - didn't cause a problem. On our diving trips my wife and I alternate babysitting.

Going back to Africa - which I'd love to do - I guess I'd prefer either to alternate ( and have a swimmingpool in the hotel) or go on an early morning drive whilst everybody still sleeps. You can't expect a child to sit for ages in a bumping uncomfortable car.

The -for me- only real problem in Africa is malaria ; if you know of places or periods with no or lesser risk, pleas let me know.

Herman

Hans, if I was the one who may have offended you, I apologize profusely! I was not suggesting that you would put Floris at risk for a photo. I was merely trying to say that my priorities changed dramatically when I had kids.

 

For instance, less than an hour ago, I looked at a fugitive roll of slides I just got developed from my trip. On it were photos of Krimmler Falls in Austria. Handheld, short exposure. No blurring of the water as I would have done in the olden days with a tripod. (Actually, my experience is that *large* waterfalls don't benefit much from long exposures, but I would have tried it.) My point is, "Do I mind that I compromised my photography because I was hiking along with my family?" Not one bit. I cherish the memory the photo gives me anyway.

 

I agree with Struan but I'll put it differently. As the father of twins, I was merely trying to keep from going crazy after just eight weeks. I was wondering to what extent my life had changed (completely) and was fighting to maintain some of my former self. I was suffering from cabin fever and going stir crazy. (Since I don't know if you are familiar with those colloquialisms, they mean I just needed to escape the confines of my house and do something for myself for a change.) I am not a psychologist and I don't know you (although I'd like to), but perhaps you are feeling some of the same emotions.

 

By all means, considering your familiarity with Africa, take Floris to Kruger. It sounds tame enough (Gambia, I think, would be a different matter). Just be aware of factors such as the very long flight, differences in foods available for kids (have you looked at the availability of baby foods on your previous trips) and the risks associated with health and safety.

 

Also be aware that most kids' earliest memories are between 2 and 4, and those are vague. As someone said earlier, he became the person he is today because his parents introduced him to nature early. That's very true, but it probably won't matter to Floris if he saw an elephant at age 1 in a zoo or in Kruger. He'll learn to appreciate nature just as much if not more if he has vague memories of looking for salamanders in a stream (relatively) near your home with his dad.

 

With your love and your love of nature, Floris will grow up to be a great kid. Just let him grow up at his own pace.

Sorry, I meant to mention, although I hate to make a generalized comment, that 350 years ago, they didn't have the risk of contracting HIV from non-sterile needles (despite protestations to the contrary -- remember, I have a friend who runs the Center for Disease Control's AIDS program for southern Africa -- if you are not familiar with the CDC, just think of the Pasteur Institute in Paris) used to rehydrate a child who is vomiting violently from de-hydration. Also, pioneers everywhere had very large families partially because of a very high infant and childhood mortality rate. I'm sorry for the negative addendum to my earlier positive statements, but I felt it needed to be said.

Hans do you care for another son, = want to adopt me...??? ;^)

 

Gee, I find your idea of taking your son to all these lovely places wonderful! Indeed, I see no real obstacle to take a child to (South) Africa other then the long flight and the malaria prophylaxis. Actually SOuth Africa happens to be the most wonderful country that I have seen so far (including many European countries and some 26 states of the USA)!!!

 

The suggested timing for your vacation sounds very reasonably to me, too!

 

I strongly believe that there is no general formula how to make a holiday with infants. It all depends on personal issues and education. Getting the chances to travel around, I bet that your son will become a very open minded person later on.

 

Although I lack personal experiences with kids, I am told by friends and family members that the first year or 2 are still good for travelling whereas the next years to come (2-5 years old) may be slightly more difficult, but not impossible.

 

As other posters have already suggested, expect a lower productivity for the years to come...

I haven't taken the kids overseas yet, but I have had them on trips where I burned a lot of film. I would usually wake up an hour or so before sunrise, drive/hike to the areas I wanted to shoot, spend an hour or so shooting, then hike/drive back in time to start a campfire and cook breakfast before they even got out of the tent. The rest of the time was spent with the family. This was with four kids ages 7,5,3 and 1. I did have to negotiate time for afternoon naps in the hammock though. I must add that was a little nerve wracking to hike in darkness while in bear and mountain lion country.