Crown Graphic and Schneider

Hello... First I would like to thank you all for all the answers and help in the past...This time I would like to have your opinion before writing the check.. :).

I always like to have a 4x5 field camera (for landscape) and I'm getting tired of hauling my monorail when I go outdoor... after consulting the LF board and archives I went out and search for an used Linhof or Toyo..but phewww they are expensive...

I always believe that a good photograph come from the mind, the eyes and the skills of the photographer... then come the lenses... and then camera body... So I came across this offer: a Crown Graphic in near mint condition with a 135mm lens (sorry forgot the brand) for a very reasonalbe price. The seller try to sell me as a package with a Schneider Super Angulon lens 65mm F8...since I don't know much about this two items, I would like to have a couple question..

 

<p>

 

1. How much this package worth (suggested price is $800.00)

2. Any feed back on the Crown Graphic?

3. The Schneider Super Angulon lens 65mm F8..is a good lens?

4. Do you think this package make sense...? I mean it's a GO or wait and searching more...?

 

<p>

 

Thanks you all for any comments....

If you check Ebay, Crown Graphics in good condition run between $200

and $350 with a Graphex Optar 135mm or Schneider Xenar 135mm. I have

seen used F8 SA 65mm lenses listed anywhere from $375-$500 at various

dealers, (Midwest, Lens and Repro etc) depending on condition and

shutter. the price he is giving sounds a little bit high unless

everything is excellent ++.

 

<p>

 

All that being said, A Grpahic is not a field camera in the true

sense of the term. if you are used to using a lot of movements in

the field with your monorail you may be dissapointed. There is very

limited front tilt and rise and a drop bed, although I do not know if

it is enough to prevent problems with 65mm. No rear movements, no

revolving back.

 

<p>

 

I have a Speed Graphic which I bought used a few years ago and

refurbished the rear shutter. I use 90mm and a 150mm lens and like

to carry it around and use it as a "point and shoot" the way it was

designed for. But I also use it on occasion for other work,

especially in very bad weather. Like you, my other camera is a

monorail, but I have adapted to carrying it in the field. These

cameras are very rugged (and also heavy) but fun to use and a good

tool in the right situations.

 

<p>

 

Hope these thoughts help.

Hi Dan,

 

<p>

 

My primary 4x5 camera is a crown graphic. I use the 8x10 more these

days, but have used the crown quite a bit. I shot a 65 super angulon

on it many times. It is very difficult to focus this lens, and a pain

in the neck to use, but you can do it. The crown graphic will focus a

65 mm super angulon at infinity. You will get no movements, however,

becuase the bellows will be all the way inside the camera, which

prevents you from using any rise and, if I remember correctly, any

tilt, either. However, this lens does not offer a big enough image

circle for movements on 4x5 anyway, so that isn't such a big

limitation.

 

<p>

 

There are a variety of 135 mm lenses out there and in my experience

they are all good! The Schneider Xenar is commonly found on these

cameras. This is an extremely sharp lens, but offers a very limited

image circle. The 135 optars of various make have larger image

circles and are also good performers. If the shutter is working well,

I think you will probably be happy with any of the 135 lenses, at

least at first.

 

<p>

 

As for the cost, it depends. I bet if you shopped around you could

put that kit together for a little bit less. The 65 mm super angulon

is what is really running the price up. But if you need a lens that

wide, that is your least expensive option, and if this deal lets you

inspect the gear and comes from a local person you trust, that is

worth some money over the ebay roulette wheel. (I have had really

great experiences on ebay, but generally I know exactly what I am

buying).

 

<p>

 

A note on the crown graphic. Many of these cameras came with only

upward tilt. I can't really figure out why. It is easy to take the

standard off and reverse it so you get downward tilt. Not something

you do every time, but something you do once, and leave it that way.

They are solid, tough, useful cameras for most photography. They offer

no shift or swing and no back movements, but my style anyway rarely

uses these anyway -- I generally stick to rise and tilt, and the crown

has plenty of tilt and just enough rise for most circumstances.

 

<p>

 

Good luck with your pictures, and be sure to check out

www.graflex.org.

 

<p>

 

Erik Ryberg

Check out a Super Speed Graphic, you get the full set of front

movements,(forward and back tilts) and a revolveing back. It is all

aluminum. Note beware of the 1/1000 shutter. They are highly

collectable but the early ones have a reputation for blowing up. The

electric shutter release requires special boards but you probably

wouldn't use it anyway. They usually bring about $400 on Ebay

The Crown does not have the foward tilt thatis so needed for

landscape work, Only hte supergraphic has that, and the super has a

revolving back too, The crown is a press camera and should come with

the fedora and the "PRESS" label to put in the hat band. The 90mm is

really the shortest practical length, and then you have to drop the

bed and use the back tilt to get the lense board vertical and on

center again. FOrget the 65mm, you will get the bed in the pic if you

use any movement, for the same price you cna get an early linhoff III

and get better movements and get into a system that can grow, then

when you want the better body you just get the linhof master 2000 and

you are up to date.

I don't wear Ed's suggested headwear, but I do use a Crown a lot,

with a 90 mm lens, and I have never had to drop the bed to use it.

The Schneider 90 mm angulon was a very popular lens with this camera,

and the press photographers weren't dropping the bed to use it.

Ed,

 

<p>

 

I have a crown graphic in front of me. Not only that, I also have one

of those dial angle finders carpenters use. I am going to do an

experiment with my camera and the dial gauge. First, I am going to

measure the angle of the front standard and the ground glass with the

front standard in the normal position. Then I am going to tilt the

lens board forward, as one would do who wished to get the foreground

in focus in a landscape photograph of distant mountains, and calculate

the amount of forward tilt. My hypothesis is that this experiment

will show that the crown graphic has some amount of forward tilt.

Here goes.

 

<p>

 

RESULT: The front and rear standards are at 89 degrees. It appears

my table must not be perfectly level.

 

<p>

 

Now I am going to tilt the front standard as far FORWARD, (i.e.,

pointing down) as far as it will go, without disturbing the angle of

the camera itself.

 

<p>

 

RESULT: I get 71 degrees.

 

<p>

 

CONCLUSION: I conclude from my experiment that this camera has

downward tilt of approximately 18 degrees.

 

<p>

 

I don't own a 65 mm super angulon anymore, but I do have many

photographs I took with it focused at infinity on this camera. Hm,

maybe I should conduct another experiment, and see if I can detect the

bed of my camera in those pictures.

I think Ed is getting his models mixed up. Using a Super Graphic you have a harder time using superwide lenses than on the Crown. The Crown body is shallower. Ed when you said "The 90mm is really the shortest practical length, and then you have to drop the bed and use the back tilt to get the lense board vertical and on center again." there is no back movement on the Crown. I've never used a 65 on my Crown but about all that you can do is drop the bed. The front standard will be on the rails in the body with a 65, and if you remove the wire frame finder it will give a little rise though the lens won't allow much if any. The other possibility is to remove the front bed if you are only going to use a 65mm lens. It won't be in the way then! Go look at <graflex.org>. Pretty much all you'll ever need to know about these cameras is at that site

Go look at:

 

<p>

 

http://www.graflex.org

 

<p>

 

Sorry I left it out the first time.

In discussions of this type where the merits Pacemaker Graphics (both

Crowns and Speeds)as field cameras are considered, the comment is

frequently offered that the Graphics lack sufficient movements (type

and extent of movement) to be serious contenders.

 

<p>

 

I call attention to the examples published in Steve Simmon's

book "Using the View Camera". At least 80% of the Simmon's examples

photographed using a field camera of any make employed camera

movements well within the capability of the Pacemaker Graphics or

used no movement at all.

Just to throw another twist in the thread, both the Busch Pressman and

the Burke & James Press have front tilt in both directions, revolving

backs, are armor plated, and usually cost half as much as the Super

Graphic (plus the Busch is much more compact).

FWIW:

 

<p>

 

In answer to the tilt up only on a Crown: For down tilt mount the

camera on its' side tripod hole and turn the tripod head on its'

side. Voila! down tilt! BTW the camera is up-side-down. (The image,

however, is still up-side-down). DARN!

 

<p>

 

Yes, I REALLY DO HAVE a fedora with a press card in the band. With

the hat, a photo vest, the Crown with a frying pan flash and a cigar,

I'm ready for anything. Now where's the smoke filled boxing ring?

Or at least the pool playing dogs.

 

<p>

 

-Steve

Hi Dan,

Just thought I'd jump on the Crown Graphic bandwagon also. I have

many LF camera's in an array of formats. Just to give you a little

incentive of the neat little things you can do with this camera, here

is what I did. I removed the top mounted Graflex range finder and

mounted a two way bubble level on the top left of the frame. Also

removed the shutters built-in cable release, and rear mounted sport

finder peep hole. Now simular to what Ed mentioned above, I removed

the front standard bracket only and slid it off it's tracks and

reversed it and reconnected it to the front standard. You now have

foward "slightly" off axis tilt. You do not need all that much tilt

in the field anyway. On a Crown Graphic you have front shift by

depressing the little silver tab at the center bottom base of the

front standard. It will end up facing to the rear when you reverse

your front standard brackets. You now have a stripped down, light

weight 4x5 field camera. I use a two lens combo, a Schneider 121

Super Angulon and a Rodenstock 210 Sironar-N. The rear element of the

121 SA just barely fits through the front standard opening. I do not

have to drop the bed when using the 121SA. Price wise Dan, I paid

about 400.00 when I purchased my Crown, but it came as a complete

kit. Came with 127 lens , 7 4x5 film holders, old light meter and

case. Hope this helps.

Correction... I met to say " As Erik mentioned above", not Ed.