Ultra Large Format 12x20 & 16x20

Hello All,

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I have decided to go nuts and work towards obtaining a 12x20 or 16x20, ideally I would like the latter. New purchase is just out of the question. I know Korona made a 12x20, and Empire State 18x22, what other older manufactures made these UL format cameras? Aside from eBay, is there a dealer(s) that specialize in this size?

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As always, thanks for the help!

JC

P.S. I am still trying to Identify my 8x10 camera with no luck, if anyone else wants a shot at it, let me know and I can send pics.

Check out Quality Camera in Atlanta.

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www.qualitycamera.com

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They only have a minimal web site, but it has a phone number and

email address.

James:

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Lens and Repro has an 8x20 Gundlach for $1,700 listed on their web

site. You might also try looking at Midwest Photo which lists an 11x14

Korona for just over $1,000.

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Gundlach Korona and Folmer Schwing produced the largest number of

banquet cameras. Korona made 7x17, 8x20, and 20x24 models and Folmer

Schwing made both 7x17 and 12x20. Burke&James and Deredorff also made

a small number of cameras in these formats.

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You might also try to find an old process camera which is more likely

to be available in the 16x20 or 20x24 size.

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It is difficult to find ULF cameras partially because there is both a

user's market and a collector's market. Expect to pay at least

$1,500-$2,500 used depending on the condition of the camera. You may

also find it difficult to aquire filmholders. Some but not all used

cameras come with filmholders, and their is no guarantee that old

holders will be light-tight. Moreover, not all ULF filmholders are

interchangeable and a holder built for one 12x20 might not fit another

12x20 made by different manufacturer. If you have to buy a new

filmholder, expect to wait several months since these are often custom

built. In addition, remember that the cost of a single filmholder for

12x20 starts at about $400.

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One final but important note: Everything changes in ULF (not just the

camera) and the "move up" often requires an endless spiral of

equipment additions. You may, for example, need a new contact print

frame, new processing trays, and a new lens that will cover the

format. In addition, be sure to check the supply of available film.

While increased interest in ULF has led to some increased film

availability, supplies are still limited. With digital imaging on the

rise and cutbacks (rummored or actual) in 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10

filmstocks, its hard to believe that banquet film is going to be

increasingly available.

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I was lucky and got into 12x20(korona in decent shape)for $600/w

dagor from a photographer retiring from the banquet trip that

supported him for years...There are deals to be had if you look

around and hit the camera shows etc. I am glad I aquired the camera

and it's really a different kind of groove than any of the smaller

formats because it's a BEHEMOUTH even at 18 lbs. I feel like I'm

tapping into history with that camera for some reason...it's hard to

explain. When its set up it looks like a real world t.v. screen ...a

big groove ...my wife's first reaction was WOW! Having said that I

definatly would not have liked to spend $2500.00 or more for that

format just for the experience as I am not committed to ULF totally

yet. But am glad and honored in a way to be able to shoot in the very

beautiful 12x20 dimentional format. It's a REAL groove BUT watch your

cash and you will need a GREAT tripod!

Darkroom Innovations has carved out giant format as part of their

niche. You might give them a call. They're in Fountain Hills, AZ.

You can also find them under www.viewcamerastore.com.

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I was considering giant format at one time and thought that 14x17

would be interesting. 16x20 seemed just a bit large to me. One

series of lenses to consider for these sized cameras are the De Golden

Busch lenses. They are relatively modern, and they have huge image

circles.

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As to my own direction, after checking the prices of lenses, cameras,

etc., I decided to go with enlarging 8x10. I think one would get near

the quality at much less cost, and not be burdened with the

substantial inconvenience of dealing with a camera and lenses of that

size and weight. And then, there's the expense of film, it's future

availability, film holders, the length of exposures, reciprocity, etc.

Oh boy!

Another direction to consider that would give about the same results

is to scan 4x5 negatives and digitally "print" large negatives onto

mylar. These negatives can be contact printed onto paper. I believe

that Calumet sells a book on this approach. This last June, they

offered a class at their Calumet Institute in Salisbury, Maryland.

I just finished building a 2nd 20x24 with a 30" Goerz Artar. Total

cost for the camera about $40 and total weight with the lens is 25

lbs. It's easy to backpack, just affixed my old backpack to it via

threaded inserts. About a week to build during a family reunion.

Fixed on infinity everything is in focus at f64 for distance or f128

for "closeups" (8'-300'). As far as I'm concerned this is the only

way to go. No focusing. Set up time is about the same as 35mm and

everything is always in focus. No movements needed for landscape.

Framing is basically right on every time. A Stanley Workmate works

perfect for a tripod or even the roof of the car. It's a no brainer.

Did the same thing in 4x5 with a 100mm WFE. Now that's my point and

shoot.

Mark - If you ever get a chance to throw some photos of this setup

onto the web, I'd love to take a peek. Feel free to e-mail some if

that would be easier.

James - You've gotten a lot of good info so far, but don't be

discouraged by some of the replies saying how difficult ULF is. It's

not. In a lot of ways, it's simpler: You're probably using one

lens. You probably only have one or two holders, which means you

only make a couple of exposures per outing. You're developing one

neg at a time, probably in a tray. You don't need an enlarger - you

contact print everything. No fancy contact printing frame needed - a

piece of heavy glass and a flat board will do as well.

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Yes, the whole process is more contemplative than the smaller formats

(in other words, SLOWER) and if that doesn't suite your style then

stick with whatever you're using now, but there is something very Zen

about seeing the final image in front of you under the darkcloth, 20"

wide. Digitally enlarged negs or enlarging a smaller format may

indeed give nice results, but it's not the same thing (either the

process or the output).

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You don't need megabuck gear to do ULF. Like Emile, I use a Korona

and a Dagor. Love them both, wouldn't swap for the world. You don't

need a $600 tripod, either - lots of big ol' used ones around. I'm

currently using the largest wooden Berlebach, which I got on sale

from Calumet for $139. For holders, contact Alan Brubaker. I think

he's at Filmholders.com. As for film, Ilford recently INCREASED the

availability of their ULF films, so I wouldn't panic about it. I use

both FP4+ and HP5+, depending on the light. They're both wonderful.

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Good luck!

All this talk about 12x20 has inspired me to take the BIG BOY/12x20

out for a stroll this fall....and....I can hardly wait for winter

here in New England to do some ULF snow scenes!Glad to hear that

Ilford is making film for ULF...I have no complaints at all with

Ilford...great film! Keep in mind though that $10 a shot adds up fast

and the errors add up too. Once I tilted the camera down to take a

shot of some flowers and forgot to level the camera after the shot

before replacing the darkslide and the film was bulging (I guess) and

due to gravity... the darkslide crunched the film up...It's a crappy

feeling wasting that amount of film in one shot but the lessons are

hard earned and you WON'T do that again!Also with my camera I use 2

tripods...an extra one for the front bed for ultimate rigidity.

E.