Gitzo Lifetime Warranties??? No, not really

Had to send in a Gitzo tripod head that wouldn't tighten any longer. Bought it some time ago when they had a "Lifetime Warranty". Well, that warranty isn't honored any longer by Bogen, the jokers who have Gitzo now. They said it was 'worn' and I had to pay.

Oddly enough, the Velbon P270 tripod head I have has a lifetime warranty & I have had it serviced twice, at NO CHARGE. Both times I informed them the problem of broken handles was my fault, not any kind of defect. The problem was me falling down on scree & talus slopes & breaking the handles. The Velbon people fixed it both times with me only paying shipping. Their response to my surprise was 'these have a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser'. And, I was the original purchaser.

This is more a frustrating experience than anything constructive, but if you are looking to buy, be aware Bogen doesn't back the products.

Now this really stinks. I too remember the Gitzo "Lifetime Plus Reincarnations" warranty adds that Gitzo used to run. I also remember several "warnings" they ran in magazines telling us to beware of buying our Gitzo products from anyone but an authorized Gitzo dealer. That the vaunted Lifetime Warranty was only good if we purchased our products though one of their authorized dealers. In other words, no lifetime warranty on gray market goods. So, when it came time to buy my Gitzo carbon fiber tripods (two of them), I paid considerably more and bought them through an authorized Gitzo dealer (B&H). I could have saved hundreds of dollars and bought them through Robert White - but I would not have gotten the Lifetime Warranty. When I bought these tripods, I considered them an investment. Something I would never have to replace. Something that would last my lifetime - complete with warranty service. Now I'm wondering if the extra bucks I paid for that warranty was a sound investment.

<p>

So, this begs several questions. Dan, did you buy your Gitzo head through an authorized Gitzo dealer? Are you the original purchaser? Do you still have a copy of your original receipt and warranty? Assuming the answer to all is yes, what basis do they have for denying warranty service? And if they do refuse to honor the lifetime warranty for Gitzo items purchased through authorized Gitzo dealers, exactly why would anyone pay more for the privilege of buying through a Bogen sanctioned dealer? Geez, I thought warranty service was the one remaining reason to pay higher prices and support distributors like Bogen. If they won't even provide that service, I see absolutely no reason NOT to buy gray market from dealers like Robert White - and save a lot (potentially hundreds of dollars on carbon fiber tripods) of money in the process.

<p>

Kerry

Karl Heitz was the Gitzo distributor who offered the lifetime warranty; I don't believe Bogen ever offered that once they took over the distributorship.

<p>

So...presumedly Bogen isn't under any obligation, assuming the warranty is an obligation of the distributor and Bogen didn't assume prior warranty obligations. Heitz may be (he has a reputation as a good guy) and Gitzo may be.

<p>

Of course Bogen _should_ honor that warranty even though "normal wear and tear" would be excluded; they should simply be good guys and ensure that a past customer would also be a future customer.

<p>

So I'd suggest you contact Heitz karlheitz@compuserve.com, tell him you bought the head back when he was the distributor and ask him what to do.

Geez Dan! Fallen over cliffs twice? Where can I buy your prints.

They're going to be worth a fortune after you kill yourself. Jim

I had just the opposite experience with Bogen. My 1300 series carbon

fibre tripod had a leg come unglued about a month ago. I called Bogen

and they informed me that if I would send them the whole tripod, they

would replace the legs (all of them) and have it back to me in 4

bussiness days. Since I assumed I would have to pay, I mentioned

nothing about warranties and they did not ask. Received the tripod

back with new legs as promised with no charge. Invoice was marked

under warranty. Don

"Karl Heitz was the Gitzo distributor who offered the lifetime warranty; I don't believe Bogen ever offered that once they took over the distributorship."

<p>

I'm not sure how it works with a distributorship, but usually when a company aquires the assets of another, that includes providing service under the original warranties. That's when one company buys another outright. Probably different in the case of a distributorship. Still, as John mentions, it's tremendously shortsighted to alienate past/current customers by refusing to honor the warranty in force at the time of their purchase.

<p>

So, again, that begs the question... Why would anyone pay so much more to buy through a Bogen authorized dealer, when the same products are availabe elsewhere for so much less. In this day of the global marketplace distributors like Bogen need to offer some value added service to justify their mark-ups and higher prices to the consumer. I thought the so-called lifetime warranty was the distributors one last value added trump card. If Bogen doesn't even offer that, what exactly do you get for paying their higher prices?

<p>

For example, just looking at some of the popular 1300 series Gitzo carbon fiber tripods and comparing the prices from an authorized dealer (B&H) and a "gray market" source (Robert White - at current exchange rates) we see:

<p>

Gitzo 1325MK2: B&H = $755 Robert White = $390.45

Gitzo 1329MK2: B&H = $837 Robert White = $434.45

Gitzo 1348MK2: B&H = $931 Robert White = $465.78

Gitzo 1349MK2: B&H = $992 Robert White = $499.62

<p>

The base prices through B&H are almost twice as much, and even after you pay international shipping (keep in mind, B&H doesn't ship for free) and any small import duty the savings is in the neighborhood of $300 - $400 on one of these carbon fiber tripods. Without some sort of added warranty service, I see absolutly nothing that Bogen provides the consumer to justify that $300 - $400 additional mark-up. Am I missing something here? If not, how exactly does Bogen expect to be able to continue with this antiquated business model? Most homes now have interent service and access to much lower prices through dealers like Robert White and other international sellers - and more people are getting online every day. Distributors can only rely on uninformed consumers keeping them in business for so long. Eventually, unless they offer something more to justify their higher mark-ups, they will lose too much buisness to stay afloat. Bogen had a chance to keep Dan's business by honoring the Lifetime Warranty on his Gitzo head - even if he bought it before Bogen assumed the Gitzo distributorship. They didn't and they blew an opportunity to establish good will with a former and potential future customer. So tell us Dan, will you pay more for your next Gitzo purchase through a Bogen authorized dealer, or will you be looking to save some money and go gray market?

<p>

Kerry

"Received the tripod back with new legs as promised with no charge. Invoice was marked under warranty."

<p>

Now this is EXACTLY the type of warranty service I would expect from Bogen - and is exactly why I bought my two Gitzo carbon fiber tripods through an authorized dealer.

<p>

If this is indeed the type of warranty service Bogen provides, it helps justify their higher prices and creates a lot of good will with their customers. Still, it make me wonder why they gave Don such exemplary service but refused to honor the Lifetime Warranty on Dan's Gitzo head.

<p>

Kerry

Kerry I think there was a thread on a similar topic about buying

lenses from an authorized dealer, you dont get much from all that

additional money you pay . I figure by the time I wear out my Gitzo

it would have been out of warranty, so I bought it from gray market

and I am happy to have done so. I make sure I dont tighten the legs

too much and I the same goes for the head, and have been happily

shooting my 8x10 for sime time now. Then again I dont have the habit

of falling from cliffs like Dan does, but I think in his case life

insurance is more appropiate than a life time warranty....:-)))

<p>

Dan I second Jim's notion, post where to send money for prints.....we

plan to make a killing (one way or another..:-))

Even though Robert White is out of the country(which might make

you hesitate at first), and since I live on the west coast, ordering

from B&H almost amounts to the same thing except for the PRICE!

<p>

B$H has been pretty good to me, and I still order from them, but

it involves phone calls, e-mails, packing, shipping, and waiting for

the stuff to show up, just like you would go through with Robert

White.

<p>

I ordered substantial stuff from Robert White and Mr. Cad out of

the UK. I e-mailed Mr. Cad on an inquiry regarding some equipment and

was surprised by them calling me long distance the next day about my

inquiry!

<p>

Robert White did me a favor on one big ticket purchase just

because I was a customer, and he will answer every one of you

questions no matter what. They'll find a way to make you happy, and

even though you might have to send stuff back to them(rarely!),

they're well aware of the hassle of this, and they'll try to send you

the best from the 'get go'.

<p>

Robert White himself or his brother will answer you personally if

you request it, and you are talked to with a personal touch. You

eventually lose all fear of the distance, and Robert White is easy on

you wallet while still treating you like a king, and that ought to

tell you something. Although this is not true of all his equipment,

you can just about divide in half what you'll pay him for gear as

compared to here in the States.

Jonathan:

<p>

WRT Robert White...

<p>

Well said. I couldn't agree with you more. Outstanding, hassle free service with a personal touch.

<p>

Jorge:

<p>

I recall that thread on lens warranties. Still, a tripod is a little different than a lens. The only moving parts on a lens (and hence the only thing likely to wear out or go out of adjustment) is the shutter - and it's not covered bythe Lifetime Warranty anyway. Although a tripod is intended to hold a camera motionless during exposure, it is made up of nothing but moving parts. The sorts of things that can become loose or need adjustment eventually - especially if you intend to keep it for your lifetime (which I intend to do wih both my Gitzo CF tripods).

<p>

I bought my Gitzo tripods after Bogen had become the US distributor for Gitzo. But just to show you how effective those "Lifetime plus Reincarnation Warranty" ads were all those years ago, I think they still influenced my decision to go with genuine US warranty, authorized dealer Gitzo tripods. I don't have the exact text for those ads handy, but I remember after reading them having the impression that if you bought a Gitzo tripod through an authorized dealer, you'd never have to buy another tripod as long as you lived. In other words, I believe (but may be wrong) that at that time, the warranty even covered wear and tear from normal use. Bogen's warranty may be less comprehensive. I still have the copies of the warranties that came with my Gitzo tripods, but they are filed away in a box somewhere (I bought them several years ago). Anyone have a current Gitzo/Bogen warranty handy?

<p>

In any case, I may have paid more for nothing, but am still happy with my purchases. Whether or not the Bogen warranty is good, I haven't had to use it (so far). Out of all the equipment I've used, I have found my Gitzo carbon fiber tripods to be the best investments I've made in equipment. They are lightweight, rigid, and reliable. Everything I could hope for in a tripod. I've owned a number of cameras and lenses over the years, and just consider them tools. I do have some favorites, but I don't have an emotional attachment to them. I tend to hold onto my tripods longer than most of my other gear. That said, my Gitzo 1325 is the best darn piece of photo equipment I've ever owned. We all have different needs and likes/dislikes, but for me, I could not imagine a more perfect tripod. I also think my modified 1227 is the best tripod for my backpacking needs (YMMV). I really don't intend to ever buy another tripod. Other than offering my 1227 modifications as a factory option, I can't imagine how these two tripods could be improved (well, maybe lower prices, but that's already available through Robert White).

<p>

I was initially taken aback by the lack of service that Dan received, but my faith was somewhat restored after reading Don's post. In either case, I did not mean to imply in any way that Gitzo products are in any way inferior. They are not - quite the opposite.

<p>

Kerry

I agree with you Kerry, I also think my Gitzo CF and the magnesium

head are the best thing since sliced bread. I was just wondering if

there is really any point into paying regular prices for "authorized"

items. Look at the trend, lenses are covered like you said, but not

the shutter (the one part most likely to break), tripods, well I do

have a little different view than yours, shure the are moving parts,

but these moving parts consist of simple movementes easily engineered

to withstand the use. I hope you agree with are not talking about

soemthing as complex as a car....so, in that vein, why do

these "authorized" dealers expect us to pay almost twice as much for

an item just for the priviledge of getting a "warranty" that they

might or might not honor? I used to think like you...I rather buy

something and pay for the US warranty, but after I while I noticed a

few things, one, all my lenses are at least 8 years old....not one

had broken. All my tripods, are at least 6 to 12 years old, with

exception of the Gitzo....not once have they broken. So I started

thinking maybe there is something to just buying gray market.....and

save enough so that I could buy 2 lenses instead of one...:-))

<p>

in any case, all tha rambling to say I agree with you...these CF

tripods are absolutely wonderful. SPecially with the magnesium heads.

Hi Jorge,

<p>

I basically agree. After owning my two Gitzos for about four years now and exposing them to some extremely tough field conditions, I'm convinced that they are very durable - and very easy to disassemb0le, clean and re-grease as needed (I often do this after returning from a trip to the desert or coast when sand gets in the leg joints). Obviously very well designed and built to last.

<p>

However, my prior tripod experience led me to go for the Lifetime Warranty. I literally wore out my previous tripod - a Bogen 3021. After breaking and replacing several of the leg locking levers, the spirit levels, constantly re-tightening things in the field, it finally just wouldn't hold my camera steady anymore. I think it was a combination of metal fatigue at the joints and just plain wear. I demand a lot from my tripods and given that I paid less than $100 for the tripod and head when I bought it, I certainly got my money's worth. It was no Gitzo in terms of quality, but still a very good value for the money that stood up to 8 years of very heavy demanding use under so pretty rough conditions. So, after wearing it out, I wrongly assumed the Gitzos would suffer similar fate. After over four years of equally heavy use, they are just as rigid as the day I bought them, showing no signs of wear or fatigue. Of course, they cost 5 - 6x what I paid for that old Bogen. So, it's really not a fair comparison. Knowing now how well the Gitzos are designed and built, I'd probably save the money and go gray market as well. Although I can't see into the future, I do have perfect 20:20 hindsight.

<p>

Kerry

In response. I purchased a number of Gitzo heads & tripods a number

of years ago, expecting to use them for some time. My Husky Quick-

set's got stolen. So, I bought Gitzo since I had already been in the

process of getting some. I matched them with Husky heads which I like

better than most of the Gitzo heads but when the Husky stuff was

stolen I just got Gitzo. I did get one other head in a pinch, a

Velbon 270 'pro head' and it has held up very well and is easier to

work with & more solid than the Gitzo heads. I will buy another of

these shortly.

I bought the stuff from an authorized dealer and expected the stuff

to last. Replaced the inserts on the legs a couple of times & have

been quite pleased with them overall. Especially since they are used

in the 35% mineral laden waters of Great Salt Lake a few dozen times

a year and still work very well. But the head pisses me off. Husky &

Velbon haven't worn out & both have seen a lot more use than the

Gitzo heads. As for original receipts... a disaster took care of all

that a number of years ago.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that too many warranties

are nothing more than excuses. I know Keith Canham stands behind his

cameras as I have seen it. I know some other makers are the same. But

this Gitzo/Bogen failure is frustrating. No, it wasn't much money. It

is just the idea of buying 'lifetime warranty' and finding it isn't

honored. What do these guys think they are, computer or software

makers??? Almost expect them to say 'it isn't the head that is

broken, the problem must be with that 8x10 Deardorff you put on it'.

Maybe a good look at warranties in general is a good thing. We pay

for service and occasionally actually need it. Sure would be nice to

get it & the companies I know will provide it are those I prefer to

deal with. Bogen/Gitzo isn't on my list any longer and I will use the

four tripods I have until the fall apart but sure won't pay for the

US warranty models in the future.

Maybe some basic photo history might help.

<p>

Gitzo was a private company making tripods and heads in

France.

Karl Heitz was an importer/distributor based in New York. They

were the importer of Gitzo.

<p>

Vinton is a manufacturer of professional video heads, tripods,

pedestals based in England.

<p>

Manfrotto is a manufacturer of tripods, heads, stands, etc based

in Italy.

<p>

Bogen was an independant importer and distributor who was

the distributor of Manfrotto products, At one point Bogen was

also owned by Victor Hasselblad.

<p>

Vinton in the uK purchased Gitzo at which time Karl Heitz lost the

line.

Vinton also bought Manfrotto.

Vinton also bought Bogen.

<p>

So today, in the U.S. Bogen is the distributor of both Manfrotto

tripods and other products as well as Gitzo. They also distribute

products that they have no ownership (or Vinton has no

ownership in) like Gossen, Metz, Rototrim, etc.

<p>

Karl Heitz today is the repair center for some of the products that

they distributed like Robot, Tessina.

<p>

It is the importers responsibility to warranty a product in the

country they are granted distribution rights in. The importer can

place whatever warranty they feel appropiate.

<p>

In Karl Heitz's case he felt that Gitzo deserved a "lifetime"

warranty and so priced the product so that it could be covered by

this warrnty.

<p>

However he had no way of anticipating that his major line (Gitzo)

would be sold to a competitor and that he would lose the right to

distribute it virtually overnight.

<p>

When the new distributor took over (remeber they were owned by

the same company that owns Gitzo and Manfrotto) they decided

that they would put a more conventional warranty on Gitzo and

priced the product accordingly.

<p>

At the time the distribution chaged I believe the price also

dropped from that of the previous distributor.

<p>

Hope this might help you to understand the relationships

betweem Gitzo, Bogen and Karl Heitz.

Bob,

<p>

Thanks for the history lesson. I was already familiar with much of it, but thanks for filling in all the details. That said, I don't recall any price decrease when Bogen took over the US distributorship of Gitzo. If anything Gitzo tripods sold through Bogen authorized dealers in the US seem to be disproportinately more expensive now than when Karl Heitz had the US distributorship. If Bogen does not provied the same level of Lifetime Warranty formerly offered by Karl Heitz, why then do Gitzo tripods sell for almost twice as much in the US as they do in Great Britain? In other words, what value added service does Bogen proved for the nearly 2x cost to their US buyers that buyers in the UK and elswhere don't get? They are, afterall buying the exact same products, built in the same factory, by the same people for half as much money.

<p>

Kerry

There is any easy answer here....always buy grey!! Only by using

dealers like Robert White and by benefitting from not only lower

prices but first class service will prices be forced to come down.

The best way to hit the big boys is in their pockets!! I've always

bought grey and always will. Common sense mens that we look

for bargains!! But there is something to be said about the

service you get too. Dealers would have to go a long way to rival

the service from Mr White.

To pay almost double the price for warranty does not make much sense.

Dont they just sell replacement parts. I've seen Gitzo catalogs with

some "makeover" kits. (Dont know if they have it for the CF series.)

Seems like you can upgrade tripod legs, spikes, handles etc. Should

be cheaper than the paying double for warranty. Heck at twice the

price, might as well get two tripods from Robert White.

This is probably somewhat beside the point, but I can't help feeling

inclined to correct the repeated implication in this thread that

Robert White is a grey market dealer. To the best of my knowledge

that is not the case.

<p>

I think the confusion is over the definition of a 'grey market'. As

far as I am aware it means the same in the US as it does here in the

UK, which is to say that it refers to the <i>reselling</i> of goods

sourced other than through the official importer/distributor. Simply

buying a camera, as an end-user, outside of your own country does not

make it a grey market camera - although it may well result in the

usual problems with regard to the warranty. Only if you sell it on as

brand new goods does a grey market come into being, and it is the

<i>reseller</i> who is the grey marketeer.

<p>

I'm sorry to be largly irrelevant to the real point of the

discussion, but I do feel that the 'grey market' tag is somewhat

pejorative, and based on my own experience I'd say that Robert White

deserves about as good a reputation as it is possible to have.

Hope I didn't give the impression thst RW is just a grey dealer -

his merchandise is covered by all the usual warranties etc.

Showing this issue in the extreme, I called up the German filter

makers distributer here(you know the brand) about the availability of

a filter, and they quoted me an eternity before it was available. I

asked them about the delivery time of the biggest dealer in New

York(you know the outfit), which was not as long, and they replied

'yeah but their filters are 'grey market'.

<p>

A filter is pretty much good when you get it or it isn't. Your

either keep it or you send it back. The price difference between

'grey market' and here, in the filter I got, on paper, is about

$50.00! $50.00 more for the privilege of buying a filter that they

don't consider grey market!

<p>

Consider this, Robert White obviously makes a profit, or he would

n't be in business, and at his low prices he is still able to give you

'red carpet' treatment. So what does that tell you about the other

dealers? Some of Robert White's deals for gear are less than what you

would pay for used gear here.

<p>

He is not a 'grey market' dealer by any means, but you'll have to

use his warranties which are in force back there because some folks

here consider the gear you get from him 'grey market'.

<p>

The web and e-bay(you gotta be careful), accessibility to gear is

now global, and I think the dealers and distributer are going to have

to bend. What makes me laugh is that they are on e-bay themselves

dumping the same equipment at rock bottom prices that you would pay a

premium for if you called the store. You know, the guy with 5000

positives feedbacks, now how does he find time to shoot between sales?

I'm continually astounded by the quality and workmanship of the LF

gear I've purchased. LF gear is well machined, with serious

attention to detail, yet very simple as compared to MF. I don't see a

lot of this gear going wrong.

<p>

The warranty on this stuff is a bet that they get to pocket your

money since their statistical analysis says that nothing will go wrong

with the stuff until it is off warranty.

<p>

I buy and stay loyal to the same dealers because many times(not

always) they will take care of a problem with your gear off warranty

excepting maybe the you drove your car over it.

Huw Evans:

<p>

It is a matter of interpretation, I am sure RW is an authorized

dealer for a lot of these items, but, if you purchase an item from

any other source than the US authorized dealer, then we say we are

buying it "gray market" since the US dealer will not honor the

warranty that comes with the item, so....what someone mentioned

before is very appropriate...at the US prices, I rather buy 2 tripods

from RW.

NO NO NO! Grey market refers to stock imported from outside the US by

a re-seller - they sell it on the US Market more cheaply - the buyer

may or may not know why it is so cheap - but may well discover why,

because they will not be able to get US Warranty repairs done (among

other things - items such as film may not have been stored in ideal

conditions if they are grey market).

<p>

Buying from the likes of Robert White, or Vistek in Toronto or

whatever, is NOT buying Grey Market goods. The seller is not

importing them into the US for resale. They are not trying to scam

you. You will usually have a perfectly good warranty - but honoured

by the UK, Canadian distributor. It's just the same as buying

something while you ar on vacation or whatever. Just slightly more

incovenient for repairs (though in my case in Canada, that just means

a touch more expensive shipping - turnaround times for sending

something to the UK for repair, are far faster than here...).

<p>

I constantly buy items from the US - these aren't grey market - I

just chose to shop there because of price or availability.

<p>

"Grey Market" usually implies something underhand - the buyer isn't

usually informed about potential problems with warranty, repairs etc.

Robert White, Vistek or whoever provides full-service warranties etc

on what they sell to you - just not here (unless the product has a

worldwide warranty). And if the buyer has an ounce of brains, they

obviously realise this.

<p>

They really are two very different things.