Just couldn't leave it alone, could ya? (for a laugh)

So, proudly I open my bargain eBay purchase: Schneider Symmar-S 180/5.6...listed as "oh, its perfect!! not a scratch!! only driven by a professional photograhper to the lab and back on Sundays...." you get the idea. Ok, maybe there are some surface marks, known as "cleaning marks"...(what the heck are cleaning marks, anyway? If you clean a lens the right way, it won't leave any marks)

<p>

So, my untrained fingers begin to work the shutter, to see if it "sounds" ok...I keep reading used lens listings, and folks say, "not tested, but sounds ok on all times"...well, darn if the 8 and 15 don't sound a bunch different than any other speed. Then it dawns on me; the speeds 1,2,4, 30, 60...they all sound the same...hmm, must be some old lubricant gunked up in there, eh? I know! lighter fluid! I read about that on the large format usenet. Lemme see...nope, no lighter fluid, but this de-natured alcohol should do the trick...lets see, unscrew the lens...hmm...now the big 'hold open' knob is sticking, and the shutter vanes are sticking open....and...and...

<p>

...sigh...

<p>

Maybe if I just remove this one little screw? (having built boats, fixed refridgerators and airplanes, I can figure this out). Yeah, I see, these 4 screws hold this thingamabob, which is connected to the ankel bone. I'll have this opened up, cleaned, and working before lunch! Or at least before I forget how it went together...ok, maybe its 4 screws, but I can handle it...

<p>

POING-BOINK-PLINK...whasthat? was that a spring? damn, which screw held that little devil in place? WOW!! a shutter leaf is just laying on the table, how did that get there? And how do I get it back where it came from? Better just open this back part here, only 4 more little tiny screws and....holy clockmaker, Batman!!! This looks like a Rolex mechanics nightmare!! There's more little tiny, teeny wheeny little itty bitty springs, screws, gears, levers, not to mention legitbobs, cretisramps and fregerbits than you can shake a stick at!!

<p>

So, now I'm looking at a pile of about 6 donut looking things, 3 spring like devices, 13 little tiny screws, 2 levers, 5 shutter leaves and a partidge in a pear tree...damn. And to think I coulda just gone to an early lunch.

<p>

So, I fess up to SK Grimes via e-mail. I threaten to send him a complete "I already worked on this" basket case shutter, with unknown parts included. Guess what?

<p>

Less than 2 hours later, I have his reply via e-mail: go ahead, he says, send it on! We'll have it fixed up in no time, and for less than you can buy a good used one for. Forgetabout, he says, just put it all in one big bag, and we'll figure it out.

<p>

Tomorrow, I think I'll change the battery in my Casio watch.

<p>

Doug

LOL! Thanks, Dough.

<p>

Victor

Funny stuff, probably a lesson learned - I ordered a lens overseas

and the eager customs staff actually unscrewed the rear element, and

the brass spacers fell out. Instead of trying to put it back together

they just threw it all back loose in the box !!!!

<p>

SK Grimes will put things right for you.

Yep, a shutter's just a tad more delicate than a boat or an

agricultural tractor, isn't it?<br>For future reference, all the

maintenance access you need to a Copal is got from undoing ONE screw,

and a threaded collar. Make sure that any lighter fuel, WD40, sump

oil, axle-grease, chisel, hammer, chainsaw, etc, is cleared for at

least a radius of 5 miles from the scene of dismantling. That should

make the temptation to use any of them resistable enough.<br>I bet

more shutters are killed by attempts to 'improve' their performance,

than ever die of old age!

Doug, that was hilarious. Mostly so because I've made enough similar

mistakes to recognize with dread the point of no return--one more

screw and I'll have it ....

<p>

Thanks for the laugh.

I thought as little boys we'd all learned our lesson by taking apart

Dad's old pocket watch, or our parents alarm clock... apparently not.

This reminds me of one of those jokes that went around the office a

few years ago. Choosing answer "C" proves you're a real man.

<p>

A spaceship full of benevolent aliens lands in your back yard and

offers you a device that will cure all disease and end world hunger.

You accept the device and

<p>

a) present it to the governments of the world

b) set up a non-profit corporation so that all may share it's

benefits

c) take it apart

<p>

I, too have several film cans full of bitty screws and springs and

tiny broken things. The sickness has no cure but you can learn to

live a nearly normal life (if you keep your spanner wrench under lock

and key).

Try the cure all tool, BANG IT ON THE FLOOR. My condolences. The

shutter on my ancient 120 super angulon fell apart one day but I was

able to put it back together with all speeds working. There is a cam

that sits ontop everything that has to be delicately placed, shifted,

then with a jewlers screwdriver, a springed lever pushed into one of

the slots.

<p>

However, I would still like to send it in for service but where to?

Where are the reputable places. Also, does anybody have any

experience with the Schneider repair services? What is the best thing

to use to clean a shutter, lighter fluid, alcohol, or how about

acetone? And lubricants?

I believe that so-called "cleaning marks" occur most frequently on

older lenses that used soft coatings. The Kodak Ektars are a case in

point.

I also went through the sticky shutter thing with an ebay 90mm

Angulon last summer. It sounds like I was lucky the first screw I

attempted to remove would not come out. I sent it to SK Grimes and

it came back functioning as it should. "Sounds CRISP at all speeds."

It truly does now after having the darn shutter repaired.

<p>

The watch now, that did'nt turn out so good. My advice is, stick to

changing the battery and DO NOT go exploring while the case is open.

It is a strong temptation, but resist it.

<p>

Ben

I once field stripped a washing machine down to it's chasis to find that it was not hooked

up to the socket..

Did that to a small Canon rangefinder....its still in a hundred

pieces 10 years later in its plastic zip lock bag!Bummer man!

I recently completely disassembled an old Canon VT

rangefinder in an effort to repair a sticky shutter. I had it *

completely* disassembled, and actually managed to get it all

back together again without any leftover parts. Shutter still

doesn't work like it should, though. Anyone want to buy a 35mm

with speeds 1/60-1/1000 only? Actually, this was one of the few

repair jobs that went right that I've done. I once killed a 50mm f/

1.4 Nikon AIS that other than stiff focusing was absolutely

perfect, by cross-threading the helicoid so massively when

reassembling it after re-lubing it that I now have a beautiful,

$80.00 paperweight. I "fixed" the meter on my Nikon F3 and now

have to keep my exposure compensation dial set permanently

on -2/3 stop. I've destroyed at least 4 radios, 3 alarm clocks, 5

thermostats, a lawnmower engine, a darkroom timer, and a

bunch of other things. Probably the most spectacular was back

in elementary school when I was into rocketry. My homespun

revolutionary aerospace technology caused 4 different rockets to

explode at various altitudes, which caused bits of cardboard,

paper tube, and balsa wood to rain down over an impressive

area.

<p>

And my mother wanted me to be an engineer.....

> change the battery

<p>

I've learned to limit myself to lightbulbs.

i once "repaired" an old ektar 127mm shutter/lens and had enough

springs and gears and wheels left over to make a cute little music

box. this was following my attempt at solving the sticky shutter

problem in the most obvious "guy" way i could come up with: find the

biggest opening in the mechanism and stick the red WD-40 straw in

there and pffffffffff...

OK Doug. One more for you.

<p>

What's the difference between a "Standard Navy Fine Adjustment Tool"

and a "Standard Army Fine Adjustment Tool"?

<p>

The "Standard Navy Fine Adjustment Tool" is a 5 lb. sledge hammer.

<p>

The "Standard Army Fine Adjustment Tool"?

<

<

<

<

<

<

< Wait for it . . . . . .

<

<

<

<

<

<

<

< A 10 lb. sledge hammer.

<p>

Regards,

S.

"I've learned to limit myself to lightbulbs. -- John Hicks"

John, that's a brilliant suggestion! After I figure out where this

ball bearing came from, I'm going to try rebuilding the filament in

that incandescent bulb which burnt out last night.... :-)

<p>

Eric "Who cares if it voids the warranty? If I fix it I won't need a

warranty" Pederson

"i once "repaired" an old ektar 127mm shutter/lens and had enough springs and gears and

wheels left over to make a cute little music box"

<p>

If we take this theory to the extreme - if you'll take apart the lens enough time, you

should have enough part for two lenses...

Isn't experience a wonderful thing? It enables you to recognize a

mistake when you've made it again!

My mother knew an ear-nose-throat doctor who said he paid for his

house with Q-tips. Seems people kept forgetting not to stick Q-tips

in their ears and had to pay him a visit.

<p>

I have a feeling Mr. Grimes has seen this more than once.

<p>

DW

In defense of amateur camera repair.

<p>

To my mind, there is something special about anything as precision as

a camera that was built by direct labor. People put part of their

lives into these old shutters and camera bodies. In the late 50�s a

friend of mine visited the Bolex camera factory and was shown a room

where about 20 women sat around and talked and did final assembly.

He said that they were so fast you could hardly see their hands move.

<p>

There are many old cameras that will never be fixed unless amateurs

do it, because of the economics. It takes a long time to take these

things apart and put them back together. And those that can do it

consistantly are few and far between. When you can buy a new shutter

or complete camera that some robot assembled cheaper than fixing what

you have, very few people are going to spring (pun intended) for the

repair.

<p>

However, your not supposed to start with your Linhof!

<p>

Ebay is an excellent source of junk cameras. If you can�t get one of

those back together you just tell people you brought it for the

parts. This is usually true, because if you don�t believe in a

parallel universe now, you will after an essential spring disappears

in to it. (Some German with a nasty sense of humor made tiny screws

out of brass so you can't get them out of the carpet with a magnet.)

<p>

I repair cameras as a hobby, and fix more than I break. I have

cameras that I couldn�t afford, if I had to buy them in working

condition. Often however, I buy a camera for $75, put 20 hours of

labor into it, and end up with a $200 camera. Obviously you can�t

repair cameras to save money.

<p>

Tips:

Don�t even try without a magnifying hood.

Get good tools, some things just can�t be done without them.

Take Polaroid�s as you take things apart.

Have compartmented trays for screws.

Cameras and shutters, are composed of many individual systems, take

the time to understand what they do. Then when they don�t do it, why,

will tend to be obvious.

Beware, left handed screws (usually in the end of shafts.)

Use the internet, there are some great, specific camera repair pages.

Strap type lens wrenches are better than nothing, but just barely.

The Germans used grease that turns to glue after about 50 years. (Try

warming it, but not enough to break the front element on a Leica

Hectar 135mm lens.)

Remember, you can�t figure out where all the springs go, but you can

figure out where a single spring goes.

Look for witness marks on parts. After two parts rub together for

thousands of times, they tend to mark each other.

The only spring that I have found that will �just fall out� is the

high-speed spring. It slips down over a post and is engaged by the

shutter speed dial on the curved end.

Any other spring that just falls out, was probably the problem. Look

for a small notch that doesn�t have the end of a spring captured in

it and that is probably where it came from.

When the little bird in your head screams "don't". Don't. He is

always right.

<p>

Neal

<p>

P.S. anybody want to sell a basket case?

Let me see... those 4 shoe boxes on the shelve there... in the #1 a

35mm reflex in pieces (can't remember what's wrong with it)..in #2 same

camera (also in pieces) bought for parts for #1... #3 and #4 lenses in

various state of repair... I'll make it...I'll make it... just give me

the time would ya... LOL :)

Ahh...Doug. Opportunity knocked and you missed it. After the thing's

in pieces and a few are lost forever in the carpet etc. you scoop the

remains onto a white background, take some digital pictures and put it

BACK on Ebay! Be blatantly honest. Now you've got 98% of the rest of

us who have too much testosterone to admit we can't fix it either and

we all bid against each other trying to get this fabulous bargain to

fix and make money on. You'd have probably got more than you paid in

the first place. Best regards. Oh, David, the 50 f1.4 is a great

focus loupe. J