AZO report in "View Camera"

Has anyone seen the report Steve Simmons did on AZO in the recent View Camera? I wonder what it would have looked like if he used Amidol? Frankly I did not like the image at all. Very drab.

You really can't judge an image by how it looks in a publication.

Some magazines do better than others in the reproduction process but

I don't think any can duplicate the look of an original print. I

recently had the opportunity to see the Steiglitz exhibit at the

National Gallery in Washington. It included a lot of the famous

photographs by Strand, Steiglitz, Steichen, and others that I've seen

many times in books and magazines. The originals just floored me,

they looked so much better than the reproductions I've seen. FWIW, I

use Azo and I think it's terrific for contact printing.

My initial reaction was the same Michael. However I am tempted to try it. But, I was told that they do not make AZO paper anymore... is this true?

They've eliminated a number of sizes and grades, but they still seem

to be making it. You can still get it at B&H or

www.michaelandpaula.com.

I was also disappointed by the photo in the article. However, I

know just how superb Azo can be through personal use of the

product. Nothing else I've ever tried even comes close when I'm

contact printing. I develop it in Ansco 130 and the results are so

good I don't feel any overwhelming need to give it a shot in

Amidol. Azo is definitely being made, albeit in fewer grades and

sizes than in past years. Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee are

the big users and proponents of the paper, and it can be bought

directly from them, as well as B&H and Badger Graphic. Azo is

great stuff to be sure, and I encourage anyone to try it.

Keep in mind that the negative was probably not scaled for Azo. I

think the point being made was that Azo was a 'longer scale paper',

and provided results quite different from typical enlarging papers.

Azo does look very good in Ansco 130 but one shouldn't fear Amidol as

being ruinously expensive - there are economical Amidol formulae

(something like Peckham's Amidol may actually be cheaper than Ansco

130). Cheers, DJ.

Isn't longer scale the same as lower contrast? Or does AZO have a

longer toe and shoulder while still retaining a high contrast midtone

area. This would let it show more detail (but with lower contrast)

in highlights and shadows.

In the context of grade 2 Azo paper, "longer scale" means that a much

greater range of negative densities are recorded while retaiing

detail in the print. This results both from a low slope in the

curve's straight line section and an exceptionally long shoulder. My

approach to using Azo has been standardizing on grade 3. Its slope

(contrast) is higher and it has a shoulder more typical of enlarging

papers. Targeting negatives to grade 3 Azo means they will also be

easily compatible with enlarging papers if/when I manage to set up an

8x10 enlarger. You can still obtain grade 3 in 100 sheet boxes, but

only, as far as I know, from Michael Smith www.michaelandpaula.com).

Elsewhere it's a 500 sheet purchase.

I shouldn't post so early in the morning. My last post should have

read "...an exceptionally long toe."

And "...a toe more typical of enlarging papers,"

 

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Arrrgggghhh!!

Dan Smith adivses that he sells 8x10 grades 2 and 3 Azo in 50 sheet

boxes. He also cuts and packages in 5x8 (or 5x7 if you want it cut

that way) in 50s and 4x5 in 50s or 100s. Dan's email address is

shooter@brigham.net. Sorry for the oversight Dan.

Both Michael Smith and Dan Smith are supplying AZO paper?

 

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Just curious.

For clarification, Michael and I are not related. We are friends &

both of us use Azo as well as Amidol.

Michael got into selling Azo mainly to assure continued supply for

his personal work. I got into it for the same reason.

 

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I sell Azo in smaller amounts than Michael and I re-package it as

well as cutting to smaller sizes. Michael only sells the factory

packed amounts. If you need 100 sheets or more, he is your source.

 

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If you need Amidol pre-measured developer to make one or 3 litres of

working solution, I also mix & sell that.

 

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Contact me OFF LIST for information.

 

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There is no 'azo conspiracy' involved.

 

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Michael is the master of contact printing using Azo & Amidol & if you

have questions on it go to http://www.michaelandpaula.com and read

some of his articles. Or, get the copies of View Camera magazine many

of them appear in. With luck, Steve Simmons will have Michael or

another Azo printer do some direct comparison prints using various

developers to get further information out there. I have done some

with Amidol and other developers as with aged Azo.(some say Old Azo

works as well as new.. not quite accurate) I will put it in article

form before too long, just looking for a profitable way to print it.

I was disappointed by the article in VC on Azo as well. For all

film/developer/paper combinations the negative must be scaled (ie

film speed/development time)appropriately. It was clear Steve did not

do this and so his prints appeared a little "flat" on Azo. Once your

system is calibrated (I use HP5, 250ASA, PMK, Azo/Amidol)grades two

and three can cover anything you could be confronted with. Having

tried several combinations since returning to LF a few years ago

there is nothing that can compare with this or similiar combinations.

The effect of PMK development and the very long range of Azo/Amidol

(Im sure a few other developers work as well) is stunning. I have

done several side by side tests to compare PMK/non-PMK as well as

Azo/galerie (where negatives were developed differently)-it is easy

to pick out Azo/Amidol prints. I encourage everyone to do the same-

once you do you'll be a convert.

 

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Alan

Just how differently do negs bound for AZO have to be scaled? If

it's very different, isn't this a big disadvantage for someone

wanting to both enlarge onto conventional paper, and contact print

AZO using the same negative?

Very good Andre, now you are getting an idea. As you can see, many

photographers plan their negatives according to the medium they plan

to use, and they search for the type of images that suit best their

vision, I guess this is called developing a "style". Please don't

misinterpret my commentI don't mean to be condescending,I am just

point this out because to me I feel it was the time when I became a

photgrapher and not just another guy taking pictures. The time when I

saw the entire print in my mind, and all I needed to do was to set

the camera and depress the shutter. So to ansewer your question, yes

it would be a disadvantage if you plan to use the negative for all

kinds of printing.

One way around shooting negs just for contact printing is to contact

on grade 3 Azo and use a water bath development to help control the

contrast while getting more pop to the image. Azo works well in a

water bath as long as you give enough exposure time. If you are going

to print on Azo often you will most likely start shooting &

processing your negatives more like you would for platinum printing.

A lot of folks feel you can have your cake and eat it too to an extent

with Pyro. You plan for that loooong scale that platinum needs, and

usually they work well with AZO also, but then when enlarging on VCFB

papers the color of the stain acts like a brake up in the highlights

where you need it most.

 

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Freestyle Sales used to have a generic #2 paper they called Europes

Finest Warmtone. Those same long negs would fall onto that paper with

Ansco 135 and are some of the finest I've ever done. But then it went

away and I've been heartbroken ever since! Well I'm off the AZO

topic. Anybody know what that stuff was. Forte Fortezo graded? Agfa

Insignia? I should start another thread and ask.