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M7 "forgetting" DX coding


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Greetings, All:

 

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My M7 also "forgot" it was loaded with Supra 400 recently, though it initially detected it correctly. When partially through a roll, it flashed ASA 100 when turned on several times in a row (this maneuver on the part of the M7 was associated with a "What the ***?" sound-track from yours truly); then it got with the program again and flashed ASA 400. Having shot with Canon EOS bodies for many years now, without this ever having been a concern (indeed, I hadn't considered it even to be a possible problem!) and noting that a recent post concerning Velvia in the M7 also noted a similar problem, I am curious as to how common an occurrence this is proving to be.

 

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Thank you for any light you can shed on this.

Best,

Matt

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Matt. You will never find out how common is this occurrence by

counting the fraction of people who post they have problems. This is

simply because it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that people who have a problem

(and are thus upset) will post than than people who do not have the

problem (and are satisfied) will post. If someone asked the question

of how many Canon EOS cameras misread the DX coding you would

similarly accumulate a series of posts about the same problem. [Just

because you haven't had the problem with Canon EOS, doesn't mean that

others gaven't had it.] Conclusions drawn from the responses are

more likely to generate heat than to shed light on the subject.

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Eliot's point is well taken. For curiosity, I searched the EOS3

archives on yahoogroups with "DX," since I have read postings there

for a long time and didn't recall this being a discussion point, and

found two independent occurrences out of more than 10,000 posts from

1999 (the beginning of the archives) onward reporting this problem

(numbers 4696 and 7250). In both cases, the problem was only with ASA

200 film. So, that several of the relatively small group of M7 users

who also read this group have encountered this problem with two

different films in the short time they've had their cameras may

already be significant.

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Elliott , thanks to people like you Leica can get away with shoddy

quality control and outdated production methods. The only

reason I read this forum is to find out if other people are having

the same quality and mechanical problems I have had with

using Leica equipment over the years, and yes other people are

also having the same or similar problems. If you take the trouble

to read other sites and threads, you will find that, compared to

other non-autofocus 35mm cameras, Leica products don't seem

to do as well as their reputation suggests. Reading the

problems and associated cures on this site has enabled me to

continue to use my Leica gear, instead of selling it all in

frustration.

 

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Despite associated problems, I still use Leica system for my

work, where suitable, but this does not mean I have to turn a

blind eye on all its short comings.

 

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I would like to take this opportunity to thank John Collier for his

vast knowledge and polite advise. I have benefited a lot from his

contributions.

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Elliott , thanks to people like you Leica can get away with shoddy

quality control and outdated production methods. The only

reason I read this forum is to find out if other people are having

the same quality and mechanical problems I have had with

using Leica equipment over the years, and yes other people are

also having the same or similar problems. If you take the trouble

to read other sites and threads, you will find that, compared to

other non-autofocus 35mm cameras, Leica products don't seem

to do as well as their reputation suggests. Reading the

problems and associated cures on this site has enabled me to

continue to use my Leica gear, instead of selling it all in

frustration.

 

<p>

 

Despite associated problems, I still use Leica system for my

work, where suitable, but this does not mean I have to turn a

blind eye on all its short comings.

 

<p>

 

The problems I refer to are accuracy ( or rather lack of) of

shutters and rangefinding systems.

 

<p>

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank John Collier for his

vast knowledge and polite advise. I have benefited a lot from his

contributions.

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Eliot,

 

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Dare i say that may be true for M6 users, but I'm not too sure the

number of M7 users that regularly visit Leica fora is sufficiently

high to allow discarding "a few" converging reports of problems...

 

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Let's say we have around 15 M7 users on this forum right now (?). If

5 report problems, that is a high proportion !

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Dear Leica friend,

I just had the same problem with my first rolls, I posted recently my

problem with VELVIA films. Solutions, you turn the rewind button, so

the cartidge moves lightly in the camera and the contact becomes

better. Definitive solution (I didn' have the problem yet, for 35

films), I cleaned carefully with alcohol the camera DX code contacts

and wipe the film cartridge DX code before usage.

Best regards from Belgium

Michel

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Sait. I was responding to the methodology of determining how common

the occurrence of misreading the DX code is in the M7 based on a

small number of people using this forum who choose to post their

experiences. I have no problem with people posting their particular

experiences (as anecdotes) for the benefit of others who may wish to

know about potential problems to look out for.

 

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I am aware of Leica's problems with quality assurance, and I don't

think that they should be under-estimated, but neither should they be

over-estimated. Indeed, the DX code reading may be a legitimate

problem, only time will tell. But consider this. What fraction of

the original number of M6s and M7s will still be useable and fully

functional in 40 years (assuming there is still film)? 25 years? 15

years? 5 years? Now substitute Nikon F4s and Canon EOS3s for Leica

M6s and M7s.

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I meant to add... Jacques. You make a good point. If five of 15

regular users of this forum post problems with a particular Leica

item, it could very well be significant, even though the sample

number is small. Indeed if two of 15 regular users have problems, I

might be concerned. But as I have mentioned, people who infrequently

use the forum or who never before use the forum may be more likely to

search for others who have had the same problem and to post here,

while people who are satisfied and have not had the problem are less

likely to post. That was the only point I was trying to make -

definitely NOT saying that Leica doesn't have problems with

QA.

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This morning I loaded a fresh roll of TMY400 in the M7 I am using,

turned it off, then back on, and it flashed 25 and gave a shutter

exposure appropriate to ISO 25. I turned it off and on again twice

more with the same indications. Finally, it flashed 400. I made

sure that the canister was seated properly, and that the DX setting

was correct.

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I use an M7, one of the first in my area. I have yet to see any

problems with the camera and have put over 100 rolls in it so far.

(ranging from Velvia to Neopan 1600. DX has read the film each and

every time accurately and all of the rolls have turned out as

expected.

 

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I can only assume that if you are having DX related issues, you have

a faulty canister. (oil/dirt etc.) The DX sensors in a camera work by

creating an electrical conductive path, the black squares are paint

that isn't conductive. If your camera is missing the speed, its most

likely because there is something on the shiny part of the canister

that is interfering with the electrical path. All you can really do

is re-adjust the canister or make sure its clean before going in.

 

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--Mark Cohen

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Don't have an M7 - and there are no problems with the one I DON'T have.

=8^o

 

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But - this sounds like it could be a mechanical OR an electronic flaw.

Most DX cameras have swing-open backs - which tend to positively press

the casette against the DX contacts.

 

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With its bottom-loading, where the casette has to have a loose enough

fit to slide in and out, I would think there is more possibility that a

casette in the M7 could shift a bit and lose contact, fully or

partially, which would 'reset' the DX to the default 100, or to an

erroneous 25, e.g.

 

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Which, I expect, makes no difference whatsoever to someone whose shots

are screwed up!

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I have had problems with DX coding twice in the past. Both times with

Nikon cameras (N90s and F100).

So, now I set the film speed manually on all cameras, including the

M7. I have never trusted those 5¢ film cartridges.

Having said that, I may try it with the M7 just to see if it works.

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Can the film speed be manually set with the M7?

 

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I'm thinking about upgrading my M6 to an M7, but I bulk-load my film. None of my cartridges are DX encoded -- just the plain black plastic cartridges.

 

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Is it possible to bypass these DX/electrical issues by setting film speed manually?

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Kelso - Yes, the M7 dial can be set to a specific speed, instead of

"DX". But some users have already complained that the MANUAL film-speed

dial can ALSO get knocked out of position - by rubbing against clothes,

etc.

 

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And a little pin-prick diode in the viewfinder blinks constantly and

perpetually if you are not using DX. I didn't find it overly

distracting once I got used to it (I don't have a -7 but have tried

several in stores) because it's tiny, like a decimal point in the

shutter-speed readout - but some people hate it.

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  • 5 months later...

I have had the same problem you have described with my M7.

In DX in was reading my Tri-X as 25 iso film.

The most simply thing to do is to turn off DX coding and keep on shooting.

But the thing that makes me worried about the point is that, for the money I've (stupidly!) spent for the M7, I want that it works perfectly! Is it asking too much?!

A friend of mine, shooting in Burkina for work, had troubles with a 90mm Apo Summicron focusing at infinity (and is camera was right setted!). The reason he was using the summicron was f/2 aperture. When he returned to Italy the answer of assistance was that for solving the problem he had only to stop down the lens.

In my opinion it's offensive.

In the other hand it's obvious that every product, expecially made in series, can show some problems sometimes. And it is not a reason to leave it up.

I consider a great error having bought the M7 because of a simple principle: if something isn't there it could not break up...

I'll keep on using my beloved M6ttl and I think that I'll soon sell my M7... For buyng an other M6.

Sorry for my bad english,

Stefano.

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