Shutter Lag...what is it!

Neither. Its a Leica M thing. It has to do with incipient

psycho-chronosis, or in the case of motor driven M's, its called

persistant incipient psycho-chronohysteresis, assuming you're

shooting continuously of course.

<p>

In laymans terms, the camera is ahead of its time, as it always has

been. In fact, its between 25 and 35 milliseconds ahead of its time,

which accounts for the lack of lag. The shutter goes off before you

actually finish pushing the release, because the camera, being in the

future, is released already. The Leica M "knows".

<p>

Thought of in these terms, it may be easier to understand: Whenever

you are, its now! Just a wee bit before "now" for a Leica M.

What are you talking about? What camera are you using? A

complete sentence would help...

This is a little-known but long-standing feature programmed into

the vast majority of modern 35mm cameras (at least since the

1980's, maybe even earlier). Camera manufacturers realized

that it was not at all difficult to create a simple algorithm that

slowed down the shutter release when the photographer was

pointing the camera at scene not worth recording. This "shutter

lag" was and is intended to provide the camera user with tactile

feedback indicating that they are wasting film and not capturing

anything visually stimulating. When a camera is pointed at a

worthwhile, moving, evocative, compelling tableau, there is never

any shutter lag at all. You just have to hope your exposure and

focus was correct.

<p>

The fact of the "shutter lag algorithm" points to one of the major

problems with Leica rangefinder cameras. Since they

essentially do not display any shutter lag in any shooting

situation, Leica rangefinder users are constantly fooled into

believing, and worse, trying to convince friends and

acquaintances, that they are skilled, talented photographers

simply because they use a Leica. Rumor has it that Leica

considered incorporating the shutter lag algorithm, which is in

the public domain, in the M7, but focus group research

apparently showed that potential users would be turned off if

their $2000 camera was giving them subtle feedback that their

photography was from hunger.

Looking for honest answer.My Ricoh GR1 seems to pause when i press

the shutter release(my M does not) why.I have missed some good photos

with Ricoh.

Allan - the above are more interesting answers, but shutter lag is

all too often a problem with electronic cameras. When you press the

release of your M6 a plunger releases a tensioned spring, the spring

releases tension and the shutter opens. Very quickly. A simplified

version of what happens. With your GR-1 you press the shutter, a

microswitch 'turns on' the A/F mechanism, which sends an infrared

beam which hits your subject, then bounces back to the camera,

setting the focus. At about this time the cameras meter is

switched, the camera microprocessor searchs its memory banks for a

brightness like the one in front of your camera, and then sets the

exposure accordingly. Then the shutter fires. Sometimes it seems

to take as long for this to happen as it takes to read the

description. A couple of hints. If your GR1 allows you to shut off

the auto features, and set the focus and exposure manually (not a

lot of p/s cameras do this) it speeds things up considerably. The

difference is only measured in milleseconds, but at times they seem

like minutes.

as above. In terms of speed fomr shutter button to shutter: 1. Copal

or leaf (in the lens) shutters such as on old TLRs, 2. Leica Ms, 3.

manual SLR (they have to time the mirror swinging up out of the way).

4. AF SLRs -- same, plus whatever autofocus, which can be quick 5.

Medium format SLRs (bigger miror), then finally 6. most point and

shoot autofocus cameras, in which the lag is terrible -- seemingly a

second or two (also the point and shoot digitals). The non SLR

digitals may be the slowest. All these timings are posted various

places, I think the M timing is 50-60 milliseconds, and the slowest

point and shoots can be easily be > 1 second. Yes, the Leica M is

great for action capture (assuming focus and exposure set).

A friend explained it as the length of time it takes you to realize

that the shutter is not working because you forgot to advance the

film. Do so and take the photo. Also known as an Oh Sh*t.

Leica M shutter lag is 50 milliseconds, R 200 milliseconds, some

autofocus camera 300-400 milliseconds

If we take the M's synch speed as a rough indication of the time it takes for

the curtain to travel across the film, we can guess that the moments recorded

on one side of a negative could be up to 20 milliseconds more decisive than

those recorded on the other side. The lag is a continuum. It is horizontal.

just for the record, a leica m (even the 7) has a shutter lag of 8-12

milliseconds -- not 50. by comparison, a konica hexar has a lag time

of about 90 milliseconds.

Also just for the record - the V'lander bodies have lag just slightly

better than a manual SLR. They have no mirror, but do have a second

'light-tight' shutter that has to open before the main shutter (I have

no idea how long that takes - but it's less mass to move than a

mirror).

<p>

The Nikon FA (among other electronic-shutter cameras) actually had

delay built-in intentionally. It was Nikon's first camera with a

shutter-priority exposure mode, and the mechanism by which the camera

set the aperture was not perfectly accurate. So the FA stops down the

aperture BEFORE it raises the mirror, sneaks a last meter reading

through the shooting aperture, and then tweaks the shutter speed

electronically to compensate for any small error in the f/stop. Even at

1/4000th second the FA shutter sounds like it's making a 1/8 second

exposure (125 milliseconds) because of this intentional lag. Most of

the Canon AE/AT/A-1 cameras and Minoltas from the same era (c. 1983)

have the same drawn-out release cycle, for similar reasons.

<p>

Suffice it to say, with most cameras a chain of events, mechanical and/

or electronic, takes place when you push the shutter button. The LAST

item in that chain is the opening of the shutter.

<p>

With Leica-M, when you push the shutter button, the opening of the

shutter is the FIRST (and only) thing that happens.

<p>

But you have to give up TTL viewing/focusing, a perfectly light-tight

shutter, and a lot of auto-goodies in order to get that response.

Martin. Roger is correct. The shutter lag on a Leica M is as small

as any camera made, no more than about 8-10 milliseconds. This short

a lag period will be perceived by the photographer as being

essentially instantaneous. It is one of the niceties of the Leica

M.

Btw SLRs with a pellicle mirror can be in the same league. Canon

specified 6 ms for the EOS 1n-RS, so, theoretically, a fast electronic

camera is easy to build.</p><Begin rant></p>Occasionally I wonder why

so many people put up with slow cameras. Cameras used to take a

picture <i>instantly</i> the moment you pressed the button. Then

engineers designed P&S cameras whose lenses were retracted until the

actual exposure was made. Then these cameras became even slower. Then

digital cameras, with shutter lags and the multisecond range,

appeared. And they sell better than hot cakes! I don't get it. The

same people who accept that ("Ya know, that digicams have a

tenth-second lag, so when I shot my friend on the snowboard I got a

real impressive cloud of powdered snow without thim in the scene. Wow,

these cams really help ya to take better pics") get mad when their PC

needs more than a few milliseconds to save a file.</p><End of rant>

Dont know if anyone has mentioned that the aperture blades closing on

an slr prior to picture taking also contributes to shutter lag,

whereas on the m, the blades are changed at the point you change the

aperture ring. Anyway, shutter lag is only a relevant issue to

missing the right moment, if you can set up the focus and exposure

settings quickly enough to start with! :0