jackflesher Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 A thought crossed my mind earlier today, as I considered my next vacation, and the future of air travel with my camera gear and film. We've all been dealing with film and x-ray machine problems for some time now, but generally an earnest smile was enough to be granted an x-rayless hand-check of my film. Given the recent events, I believe those days are (and probably should be) over. I also heard that the FAA is considering a new regulation prohibiting ANY carry-on items of any type, including a woman's purse, being brought on-board. This will likely mean checking our precious camera gear in some type of protective case that screams "VALUABLE STUFF INSIDE!". <p> So I am curious as to what others of you think... With film being subjected to X-ray machines being turned up higher, likely multiple passes, and prohibitions from keeping our gear secure and in close proximity, where does the future of travel photography now lie? Digital may solve the x-ray-zapped film problem, but not the security issue - and I'm not real sure I want to travel with a Nikon D1X-sized camera anyway. I like my Leica, and I feel like it may now become an extinct travel species... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_albertson Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 That's absurd. Where did you "hear" the FAA was going to ban carry-on luggage--in a chat room? <p> You're entitled to a hand-check of your film at any U.S. airport, and that's on the basis of the FAA's regs, not your personality. Until they change or suspend that reg, politely point it out to the security inspector. Expect a more thorough and time-consuming hand chack under the new security regime (even before 9/11, at SeaTac they ran my Tupperware tubs full of film through an explosives sniffer), and budget more time for it before your flight. <p> And if all else fails (or you're traveling overseas, where you don't usually have a right to a hand check), putting your film through a carry-on scanner isn't a big deal anymore. On my last trip in July, I had several rolls of Delta 3200 survive multiple passes through carry- on x-rays machines without any damage. Whatever you do, don't put film in your checked baggage---the CAT scanners they are increasingly using for checked bags *will* fry your film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 <i>I also heard that the FAA is considering a new regulation prohibiting ANY carry-on items of any type</i><p> I saw this on another photo bulletin board but as far as I can tell, it is just another rumour. I have found numerous articles about changes in FAA regulations and the <i>only</i> place this is referenced is on that photo site. <b>Before spreading more rumours</b>, find a source. A good article on what will happen can be found here:<p> <a href="http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/200 10912/us/attacks_airlines_23.html">Yahoo article.</a><p> I hope everyone and their family and friends are ok. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark13 Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I too am concerned about what the new regulations and procedures will mean for air travel. To be fair to each other, we should wait to see what the new rules will be but I have heard several times in the past (following the Pan Am 103 incident, following the TWA 800 incident which appears to be an accident etc.) when FAA officials SUGGESTED such a ban on hand-carry items. <p> How about the hardware - how do the lenses fair with repeated trips through the X-ray machine? <p> Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 <i>How about the hardware - how do the lenses fair with repeated trips through the X-ray machine? </i><p> Is this a joke? Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted September 12, 2001 Author Share Posted September 12, 2001 FYI: <p> I heard the report about carry-on lugage on CBS news earlier today... <p> Chuck: I understand your comments -- All I am suggesting is that what you describe is the way it USED to be. I feel certain that the system and proceedures we have grown used to will be have changed dramatically the next time any of us get on a flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted September 12, 2001 Author Share Posted September 12, 2001 And for anybody else that cares, this forum is the closest thing to an internet-chat-room that I participate in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I'd say the only changes so far are that you can't carry any knives on board--not of any kind, even a Swiss Army knife. I imagine we can still put them in our checked baggage. The other change is, no more curbside checkin. Fine. small prices to pay. I wouldn't like it if we couldn't carry on anything, but I'd respect it, in view of the much higher price the country has recently had to pay. If I have to settle for putting something expendable in the checked baggage, like an 8008, I'll gladly do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_schank Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 No more electronic tickets, no more curbside check-in, no more knives of any size even plastic ones--these were just confirmed. There is talk of requiring photo ID's to actually board the plane, not just to get a boarding pass. (Funny if you think of it, as before they would check your ID diligently before giving you a boarding pass, but then you could give the pass to anybody and they could enter the plane). I did not come accross any info about "no carry on" but that the checking of it will be more intense. I would hate to have a job that required extensive air travel right now, as the all to common delays are going to become worse. The increase in security always comes at a cost, time and convenience go out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas k. Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I can't imaging a total ban on carry-ons...For one thing, that would virtually prohibit travelling with children, as they require LOTS of carry-on stuff (snacks and drinks, diapers, toys, etc.). <p> As far as film goes, you are entitled to hand inspection of ANYTHING you request at U.S. airports, but make it easy for them: remove film from cardboard and from the plastic cannisters and put it in ziplock bags (I've had security personnel remove each of two dozen film rolls from the plastic cannisters -- no fun for me nor for them). With the film in ziplocks and a bit of polite persistence, I've managed to always get film hand-inspected, not run through x-ray machines, even at London's Heathrow, which is notorious for NOT giving hand inspections, and also in Istanbul, which has military personnel doing airport security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted September 12, 2001 Author Share Posted September 12, 2001 Doug and Chuck: <p> I don't think you guys are getting my point... Monday, you were entitled to, and could have had your film hand-checked. After yesterday, I don't think they'll do that for you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 I just happen to be preparing the page for tomorrow's Rocky Mountain News (Denver) ON THIS SUBJECT: Here is verbatim quote from our story. It does not address film/cameras per se, but as Jack said, Tuesday morning (9/11/01) the world turned upside down, and you don't have ANY rights that aren't in the Constitution. <p> A. A ban on knives � even plastic � in terminals. This will force food vendors within the airport to prepare items that need cutting � lettuce, meat, fruit and vegetables � at another location.B. Armed U.S. marshals aboard planes.C. No parking for ��profile vehicles,�� such as an SUV or RV with tinted windows, or unattended vehicles within 300 feet of the terminal. Regular passenger vehicles will be kept back 75 feet.D. Elimination of curbside check-ins.E. Requiring a boarding pass to get through security checkpoints, so only passengers will be able to get to gates.F. A possible ban on carry-on baggage. [note "POSSIBLE" - A.P.]G. Requiring passengers to check in for their flights up to two hours ahead of time. <p> It may be crazy, it may be insupportable, it may be draconian - but it IS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 <i>As far as film goes, you are entitled to hand inspection of ANYTHING you request at U.S. airports, but make it easy for them</i><p> Have you actually <b>read</b> the appropriate documents? FAR Part 107 allows emergency changes at the discretion of the govenment. You are not entitled to hand inspection if the FAA deems it so in case of an emergency.<p> It would really help to read the regulations so that you <b>understand</b> them rather than just repeating what you may have seen on the net. Five minutes with the FAR and you could find the appropriate sections. Click <a href="http://www.aircraftmarketplace.com/data/fars/far- 107.txt">here</a> and go to section 107.11. Note section (f) in particular. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Some more from our story: <p> "Denver International Airport will gradually return to life beginning today, but travelers may be shocked at the security changes that two days have brought. <p> "The way we will open the airport, when it reopens, will be different than it ever has been before," Mayor Wellington Webb said Wednesday." <p> I.E. - "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_albertson Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 I don't dispute that the FAA can change their security requirements if necessary, and I don't have any problems with most of the changes that have been bruted about. I wouldn't particularly care if they insisted on x-raying the film in my carry-on bag. I can re-learn eating with my fingers, if they're serious about banning silverware, plastic or otherwise. <p> But the notion that they will ban all carry-on luggage doesn't even bear cursory analysis---it's simply not practical. Business travelers aren't about to check their notebooks, and in my line of work only The Doomed would consign client documents to the baggage hold. I don't know who is floating this idea to the wire services (or whomever), but it falls into the category of that howler I heard on one news show tonight---"Sky marshalls for every commercial flight in the United States!" Sounds neat, but try doing the numbers of how many people the guv would have to hire and train to cover 40,000 flights a day. They don't crunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard10 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Let's not jump to conclusions about whether this or that may or may not happen. Obviously, this is a rapidly developing situation and a national emergency, so we'll just have to wait and see. We still getting bits and pieces of information. Only time will tell how we will all be affected. <p> And I know everyone means well (and this is not meant as a personal attack to any members of this fantastic forum), but in the face of this disaster, worrying about whether or not I can get a hand inspection of my film or whether or not I can have a carry-on bag seems a trivial matter. I work at a building adjacent to the north tower of the WTC and after seeing the kind of carnage and destruction that occured on Tuesday, I know that things must change. What that means to me as a photographer and how I accomplish my assignments, I don't know yet. And frankly, part of me really doesn't care right now. I apologize for souring the mood -- this forum has always been a great resource for information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Chuck: Ummm.... As of tonight, there are ZERO flights and ZERO passengers per day. Midway Airlines just went out of business - gone, like the WTC. <p> There is not going to be 'business as usual' in the American air travel industry for a long, long time. I will bet you that it will be 3 years - at least - before we are anywhere close to 40,000 flights a day again. <p> That list wasn't from a wire service - it was our reporter talking to Denver International officials about the restrictions they will be operating under this (Thursday) morning in order to get FAA permission to reopen. <p> The FAA is going to run a 'safe' air industry. If that means 500 flights a day NATIONWIDE (with air marshals), that's what will be available, until they can ratchet up the number while maintaining safety. A business traveler who "isn't about to check his notebook" is likely to get a visit to the little room labeled "Security" - and catch a later flight (if (s)hes lucky.) <p> It may not be that bad. There may be no carry-on ban if the FAA figures they can avoid it and maintain safety. It may be possible to get hand inspections as the shock wears off, especially if we help out with the plastic baggie trick. But whether business or other travellers "like" it or not will cut very little ice with the FAA. <p> The paradigm shifted when that fireball blew out the side of the South Tower. In the old 1940's phrase, "S'matter? Don't you know there's a war on?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msitaraman Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Off the cuff... <p> Unless you have small children or a baby, what's the big deal with no carry-on luggage? Just pack to check everything in. <p> Worried about the safety of a briefcase or cameras etc? I'm sure luggage choices will develop to make that convenient as well. No laptop? Use a notebook-yes the paper kind. No cutlery? Think you are at McDonalds and eat with your hands-the food is usually worse anyway :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Some of us without children need to be distracted also. <p> Having no carry on baggage will significantly increase the ammount of booze sold on plane flights. One carry one bag is my camera gear (I don't want to have to check it, but if I have to, so be it) and the other is a few necessities, laptop, and the rest is stuff to keep me occupied on cross country flights. Six hours of reading the inflight magazines is going to be pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver_s. Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 I could live with CTX5000 scans of carry-on luggage if necessary, although it's the end of silver-based photography. But the prohibition of <i>any</i> carry-on luggage? Well, people in Germany use to think of civil rights as something that is granted by a generous government which may revoke them at any time, and is obliged to do so under certain circumstances. So don't give any ideas to my paranoid representatives :-(</p>What about a book, carried in the hand, to be taken aboard, Josh? I'm ready to set a precedent by refusing to check my breviary: if I must not take it aboard, freedom of religion is violated IMHO as I insist on my right to pray the liturgy of the hours...</p>Mani, your suggestion that "luggage choices will develop to make that [checking cameras etc.] convenient" sounds nice, but what can stop thieves from taking an entire gym bag or suitcase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Good grief - as if there was no life before laptop computers! As well, to the comment about more booze on the airlines. It's already been announced a month ago (more to do with air rage) that in the future liquor sales will be limited on flights. I too agree that considering the tradgedy that has just happened, and the attendent loss in life - that worrying about whether you'll be able to carry on your precious laptop is just a wee bit selfish. There will be lots of time to figure this stuff out. Right now instead of worrying about trivials - do something usefull such as donate blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_blair2 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Andy: I must take exception to your characterization of the failure of Midway Airlines. You stated that "Midway Airlines just went out of business - gone, like the WTC." As someone who watched the Pentagon burn before it was broadcast on television, I cannot see the parallel between a foreseen business failure, where people lost their replaceable jobs, and the unforeseen terrorist attacks against the WTC and the Pentagon, where thousands lost their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_brookes5 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 It was mentioned on the BBC this lunchtime that it is expected that all air passengers will have to pack hand-baggage into their cases before boarding and jewellry will be put into a sealed plastic bag. this is likely to apply in the US also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_schank Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Like I mentioned in a previous thread--whenever security measures are increased, personal freedom gets sacrificed, and whether all these things being implemented (that will make air travel more unpleasant than ever) will actually prevent something like what just happened is still doubtful in my mind. To come up with a system that will locate and stop all of the few potential high jackers out of several million regular air travelers is a near impossible task. I also know they have to try. How the airline business is going to stay IN business is a question I have. Like it or not, we are going to have to come to grips with the fact that we are vulnerable here in the US, and there may be little we can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_rowlett2 Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 If I ever get to take my Leica M on board again, I certainly hope that the security "professionals" will do more than insist that I take my lens cap off so they can look through the "viewfinder!" Training for security personnel ought to include some technical information about some of the things we bring aboard, like cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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