voiglander lenses,users report

I plan to replace some stolen Leica lenses.The 35 Summicron RFand 90 Tele-Elmarit. I am considering the 35mmf1.7/35mmf2.8/ and a 90mmm.The first 2 lenses by Voigtlander.The 90 by Konica.I do PJ and weddings,celebrations and events.I need actual users replies.How good? What negative faults?

Jason,

 

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You might want to look at this site. It is by Erwin Puts who is a

European Leica Guru. He is partial to Leica, but he finds the lenses

pretty good. When you read any negative comments, remember that he

is comparing these sub 500 Dollar lenses to models that go for 4 to 5

times as much.

 

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http://www.imx.nl/photosite/japan/voigtl01.html

I keep coming back to see if someone who has actually shot with the

lenses listed in your question, but no one has posted yet. I have the

25mm lens, and it is very good. For the money, its a really nice

little wide angle, and very well made.Sharp, contrasty, low

distortion, high resistance to flare. I would be surprised if the

other lenses do not spec out very high in the field as well. Cosina

went all out on these lenses, down to the nice circles that the

aperture makes at the various f stops. The screw to m adapters are a

minor thing and I can live with them, but I'd still would have rather

had a real m mount lens. Hope to hear from some other voigtlander

lens owners.

I have read three magazine tests on the Konica lenses.

The 50 seems to be a real top class lens, but the 90

flared quite easily in two of the tests (the 3.rd doesn't

seem to have checked flare at all). I buy too many

magazines to remember exactly which they were, but I'm

90 % sure that two of them were Brittish "Practical

Photography" and German "Foto Magazine".

I have the 15 and the 35/1.7. Both are excellent. I don't have a

Leica 35 to compare with, but the new lens wide open is solidly

better than the 35RF Summilux I had years ago, when I compare prints

from then and now- - - but that was a very early Summilux, not a

modern lens. The 15 is, of course, amazing, especially since it has

no competition. My next purchase will be the 25, but I do wish it was

a stop faster, so that it could compete with the Leica 24 in some

meaningful way--I'm just not sure f/4 is fast enough for me in that

length, but I'm not ready to spend the extra to get the Leica 24/2.8.

Thanks for all your help.I had a 35mm Summilux years ago.I hated it.The out of focus was very disturbing.The flare problem on Konica needs re-think.In a perfect world I`d get Leica lenses.Their cost is simply too high.It cannot be justified esp in pro work.I do not get that kind of fee.

I have old Pentax screw mount lenses and their multi coating is still unbeaten.I wish my Leica lenses were equally flare resistant!I`ve heard about the 15 and 25 lenses.They are too wide.In fact I beleive a slr is a better tool for such wide angles.One can compose with so much more accuracy!True you cant focus but then that what the numbers on the lens are for!

Question: are there any plastic aspheric elements in the cosina

lenses? They may look pretty and be good, but how long will they

last? I have a 90 tamron, sharp but there are streaks inside the

elements which I attribute to plastics, poor manufacturing

techniques, and we are talking famous Tamron. You get what you pay

for.

 

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Wlad

A post from the LUG you might find germane:

 

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From: TTAbrahams@aol.com

Reply-To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:38:28 EST

To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us

Subject: Re: [Leica] Cosina vs Leica (glass)

 

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The tests of the Ultron, Nokton and Color-Heliar versus the

equivalent Leica

lenses confirm my opinions of these lenses. Both the Nokton

and the

Color-Heliar have become fixtures on my cameras. The Nokton

on a M6HM and the

Color-Heliar on a M6TTL 0,85. The Ultron 35/1,7 I have an

ergonomic problem

with, it has a strange (to me) barrel, very thick in the back portion

and

then tapered towards the front. It is a little larger than I want my

35 to

be. I have the 35/1,4 Asph and although big and clumsy, it is a

spectacular

performer, so when I need a fast 35, that's what I use. For

"normal" shooting

I tend to stick with the 35/2 Summicron (3rd generation) or the

35/2 Asph.

The Ultron is somehow left hanging between these choices.

Performance wise it

is no slouch though. As good as the 3rd generation Summicron

(and that is

high praise) and, apart from wide-open, close enough to be

used instead of a

35/2 Asph. Of course, if I was using a lot of LTM cameras, the

Ultron would

be a good choice as it allows you to adapt a new, high quality

lens to these

older designs. The new 35/2,5 Color-Heliar is more

ergonomically correct for

my style of shooting, very quick focus and, although a bit softer

than the

35/2 wide-open, an extremely competent performer across the

board.

The Nokton is the 50 high-speed lens to beat. It is very good and

fully

usable wide-open. The "double"-Aspheric design gives a nice

"snap" to

wide-open shots. It is lightweight compared to the 50/1,4

Summilux and a bit

more compact. It works very well on a M2 or M3 but on the IIIF/IIIG

the

barrel is intruding a bit in the finder (but so would a Summilux 50

in

screwmount). Combine the Nokton with a M2 and the 1:1 finder

50mm finder from

Voigtlander and you have a "street shooting camera" second to

none.

The 75/2,5 is a lightweight alternative to the 75/1,4 Summilux.

It's

performance is not up to the 75/1,4, but we are also looking at

$400 (and the

facility to use this lens on a LTM camera) and $2000+ as well as

250 grams

versus 600 grams. The 75/1,4 Summilux is in my opinion one of

the milestone

lenses in the Leica lens system and when you need that speed,

there is no

substitute. It is heavy and you certainly are aware of the fact that

you are

shooting with a fast lens. It requires a steady hand and a perfect

focusing

ability to get the most out of it, but when it works, watch out! The

75/2,5

is a different lens altogether. It is small, short and comfortable. It

gives

you a bit more reach than the 50 and is very handy. I always

bemoaned the

lack of a small, light lens in the 75mm length in Leica's program

and I

lobbied for years to get Leica to produce the 75/2,4 APO (a rare

military

lens) for M-users. The 75/2,5 might not be APO, but it is certainly

sharp and

contrasty enough for any application. It has a slight softness

wide-open that

makes it very pleasant as a portrait lens, enough depth of field to

focus on

the eyes and get the nose sharp too. You can also get a great

bright line

finder for it from Voigtlander/Cosina.

As for the Cosina's know-how on glass manufacturing. They are

one of the

premium manufacturers of glass in Japan as well as being the

foremost

manufacturer of Aspherical elements for the Japanese camera

industry. Most of

the other manufacturers order the Aspherical elements from

Cosina and put

them in their lenses, even some of the biggest names and most

renowned lenses

from these companies have Cosina Aspherical elements in

them! This is a very

Japanese way of doing thing, rather than trying to invent the

wheel in every

factory, they will buy the needed pieces from someone who

already knows how

to do it and who can supply the material to what ever

specifications the user

need. Most of the Japanese camera industry is more of a Quality

Control and

assembly function and a fair bit of the parts come from small

and medium

sized subcontractors. There are only a couple of companies in

Japan that cut

lens focussing helicoils and they supply most of the camera

manufacturers,

the same thing goes for rangefinder parts. Cosina looked

carefully at the

Leica CL and CLE finders for their Bessa-R. The basic design

was good but

they also added stuff like better frames, higher contrast etc. They

simply

made use of improvements that have occurred in the last 20-30

years and

applied it. This allows them to be very competitive when it comes

to pricing

as well as use design parameters that takes into account what

the sub

contractor is making. Quite often the subcontractor, who is an

expert in the

field, can suggest improvements and cost cutting measures that

in the end

benefit both the product and us, the consumer.

A perfect example of this "parts" camera is the Hasselblad

X-pan/Fuji-TX-1.

If you look closely at the camera, you recognize parts from

Contax G series,

from Canon and several other cameras. The unique parts are

chassi, covers and

the rangefinder magnification system. The shutter is a Copal;

electronics

look very much like the ones in the Bessa-R and exposure

compensation,

LC-displays etc could be dropped into a Nikon F5/Canon EOS or

Minolta 9

without looking out of place. Considering that the X-Pan sells for

just about

what a M6 with 50/2 costs (and for that you get 2 lenses), it

proves that

this way of manufacturing works.

There is also an inherent Japanese tradition of making small

productions.

They do recognize that not everybody wants everything and if you

build a

small run of something, you have to price it so that you get the

costs back

and make a profit. Case in point is the Ricoh 28/2,8, the 21/2,8

and the

Minolta 28/3,5 as well as the Konica 60/1,2 and 50/2,4 lenses.

These were

built in small series (in case of the 60/1,2, only 800 made) and

sold out

quickly. Neither of the manufacturer lost money on these

products although

most likely they did not make huge profits either, but the product

name was

kept "alive: in the camera magazines and discussed among the

optical experts.

The Konica Hexar RF is a similar case, if it is not a sales

success, it will

probably stay around for a while, Konica will sell enough to

recoup

investment and then drop it. The more I see of the Japanese

manufacturers,

the more impressed I am. Look at the car industry there. They

build and sell

the Figaro (a 1950's retro sports car, complete with a Fiat

Topolino type

top, white plastic knobs on a 50's style radio, which of course

also can play

CD's!), the S-Cargo, a small city type delivery van, cute and

practical, the

Nissan chassi and 2/3 sized Jaguar 3,4 Mark II looking sedan

etc. I get the

feeling that they actually are enjoying themselves in their design

departments!

When it comes to Cosina/Voigtlander, this is the pet-project of

Mr.

Kobayashi, the President of Cosina. He likes Voigtlander

cameras and also

Leica's. he could not find a Snap-Shot Elmar (a prototype lens

made in the

30's) so he had his team design the 25/4 Snap-Shot Skopar. He

thought the

Hologon was overpriced and under-performed so he had the

15/4,5 Heliar

designed. There was a bit of a slowdown in sales of Nikon

FM-10/ Olympos 2000

cameras (which Cosina built under contract to Nikon and

Olympos), so he had

that one redesigned to be a modern 1G, but with a built in meter!

The Bessa-R

is the same thing, Cosina is building all these LTM lenses and it

would be

fun to make a rangefinder camera that fits them, but with modern

meter/shutter technology. I am deeply envious of him, imagine

having a camera

factory and a premium optical manufacturing facility at your

disposal and the

position to have them build your dream cameras or lenses. The

mind boggles at

the prospect!

Tom A

 

....and.....

 

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From: TTAbrahams@aol.com

Reply-To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:17:05 EST

To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us

Subject: [Leica] Cosina lenses

 

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I have been using the Cosina/Voigtlander lenses for quite a

while now and I

will put down my highly subjective opinions of these.

 

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Heliar 15/4,5: Best deal there is! A 15mm rectilinear lens with a

great

finder for less than $400! It is cheaper than the finder for the 16/8

Hologon

for Contax G1/G2 and far more useful. Wide-open there is some

softness at the

edges, but ones you are stopped down to f5.6/8 it's performance

is exemplary.

There is some vignetting, but this is a function of the extreme

wide-angle

rather than the lens itself. In any case, the fall off is less than a

Hologon

without its center-filter. Highly useful lens, incredible depth of

field and

once you have learned to keep knuckles and shoes out of the

frame, great fun

to use! Works well with the M6 meter, but some care has to be

taken not to

meter too much sky, due to the extreme angle of view.

 

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25/4 Snap-Shot Skopar: It might look like a toy but it is a very

sharp,

moderate wide-angle. It has certain endearing characteristics,

the click

stops at 1m, 1,5m and 3m makes it a great street shooting lens.

I would have

liked it too have rangefinder coupling, but it is still easy enough

to use.

Handles very well and is sharp, contrasty and kind of cute! It is a

bit too

small for using on a M-body, but suits the screwmount camera

perfectly (or

the Bessa-L). At $300 with the finder, it is a bargain. It is better

than a

25 Canon and an improvement over the 28/5,6 Summaron. The

finder is the same

type as the 15, very bright and clear, some curvature in the finder

and no

brightlines. What you see is approximately 93% of what you get.

 

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35/1,7 Ultron: Competent 35mm lens and usable wide-open. I

find it a bit too

big for a 35 and I have not got used to its barrel-size. On the

other hand,

it is a very good optic, performance is similar to the pre-ASPH

35/2 and it

allows the user of the Barnack-Leica's (Japanese designation

for screwmount

Leica's) access to a high quality, fast and reasonably priced 35.

The

Aspheric glass makes a difference in wide-open performance,

sharp and

contrasty. The 35 finder that Cosina released before Christmas

is a joy to

use. Same housing as the 15/25 finders, extremely bright view.

Proper

framelines and even a parallax compensating line at the top.

Better than the

$400 SBOII finders that Leica made 40 years ago and at $140 a

bargain to

boot.

 

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50/1,5 Nokton: I did a subjective test a week ago. I shoot with the

50/1,5

Nokton, 50/1,4 Summilux, 50/1,4 Nikkor (in screwmount), 50/1,4

Canon (also in

screwmount). The weather co-operated by being truly miserable,

rain, grey

overcast, some snow/slush and a couple of days with sunshine.

Using Tmax 400

and processing in FX-37 (a bit edgy grain, but sharp) the clear

winner was

the Nokton with the Summilux and the Canon as second and the

Nikkor trailing

(Now the Nikkor has had a hard life and the glass is slightly less

than

mint!). The Nokton has become my standard lens for

winter-weather shooting.

Wide-open it is remarkably sharp and snappy. It is a very

comfortable lens to

use, barrel size and "heft" is very well balanced. As it has a

52mm filter

size I have found use for those old Nikon filters that has been

cluttering up

the filterdrawer too. Supposedly the later lenses have a slightly

deeper

hood, but I have not had any problem with flare on mine. At

around $600 it is

a better deal than a used Summilux 50. It is not a substitute for

either the

Summicron 50 or the Noctilux, but for the times when you need a

stop more but

you don't want to haul the Noctilux around, it is perfect! There is

also a

nice 50-brightline finder available for this lens. Superbly built and

it

comes in black paint too!

 

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75/2,5 Color-Heliar: This is a small, compact and very

reasonably priced

"long" normal. Its performance is on par with the Tele-Elmarit

90/2,8. It has

a slightly soft rendering at 2.5/2.8 but gets quite snappy at 4 and

above. It

is a tiny lens, slightly longer than a 50/2 and lightweight. It is not

as

sharp or as contrasty as the 90/2,8 Elmarit-M, but it is lighter and

smaller

(and you can put it on your Barnack-Leica). Sometimes there are

pieces of

equipment you like for no particular reason, the 75/1,4 is

sharper, the

90/2.8 Elmarit-M is probably better and the 90/2 APO-Asph is

considerably

better, but the 75/2,5 feels "right". It is small enough that you can

stick

in a pocket and leave it there until you need it, without feeling that

you

are dragging a heavy 'lump' with you. It is now my preferred

"long" normal

for a walk in the downtown. Combining it with an M body with the

35/2 on it,

you can have a nice portable shooting kit. Cosina also makes a

75 finder,

same barrel as the 50 finder and the same bright view with

framelines clearly

visible.

It is also one of the lowest priced Cosina/Voigtlander lenses at

around

$375/400.

 

<p>

 

My feeling is that the Cosina products are well designed well

made and

represent a tremendous value for the price. They are not

substitutes for the

Leica optics, but rather complements the lens line. It also allows

us to use

the older Barnack-cameras with modern, high quality lenses as

well as

allowing us to put the same lenses on our M-cameras.

All the lenses that I have are the black versions and on some of

them I have

noticed a tendency to chipping in the paint, particularly around

the hood

edges. Coatings are holding up well to my somewhat haphazard

way of cleaning

them (wipe them off with a lens-cloth, using R.O.R if I am at

home, otherwise

I breathe on them for light cleaning, spit on them for more

hard-to-clean

spots!). So far no marks, permanent spots or scratches. The

"feel" of the

focussing on all of them is remarkably smooth and the 35/1,7

has a wonderful

short throw, you go from infinity to 0,8 m in a quarter turn. Very

fast and

easy to catch moving subjects. All my tests have been with

black/white film

(apart from a couple of rolls of Astia and Provia in Tokyo last

September) so

I will not judge color rendition or the variations thereof.

I haven't got the 35/2,5 or the Bessa-RF yet but it should be here

shortly

and I will let the LUG know as soon as it has arrived what my

initial

impression is.

Would I shoot a commercial job with the Cosina lenses? Yes,

particularly

with lenses like the 15/4,5 or the 50/1,5, the 25/4 is no match for

my 24/2,8

Asph, nor is the 75/2,5 a match for the 75/1,4 and in my mind,

nothing

matches the 35/1,4 Asph. If it was a job that required critical

color-work I

might do a check on the corrections required to match the

lenses, but for a

black/white or color-neg. job, the Cosina are more than up to the

task.

Keep in mind that this is a subjective opinion of one person and

it is from

a user point of view. For the detailed nuts and bolts analysis do

what I do,

read Erwin's stuff!

Tom A

 

Here are some pictures taken with the Voigtlander 35mm f1.7

lens, on a Bessa R. All shots were handheld:

 

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http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=63145

 

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Regards

Mahesh,

 

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Thank you very much for your post. I have heard that the 35mm f1.7

was close to the performance of the last Non-Asph 35mm Summicron, but

yours were the first photos that I have seen made with it. I

particularly like the window light picture of the statue and the

painting with the bare lights in the frame. The lens looks as if

there in no problem with flare.

 

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If others are viewing the pictures, don't forget to click on the

pictures for an enlarged view...(bigger than the screen!). You can

really see the details. Nice lens! Nice pictures!