Does Anybody Have a Z9?

But why the rush? Why in such a hurry?

 

But that's how you sell stuff. Remember when Apple sold their IPhone for high price at introduction and made great money. Later on they drop the price and the people who bought them at introduction started to complain. It's not Apple fault as they just know when they can sell them and for how much but they did give these people $100 back.

Apple has a relatively small number of products that sell in very large numbers (and for large profits at least for the iPhone family) which allows them to optimize the manufacture for day 1 availability. I don't think that would be possible for complex optical and mechanical systems such as cameras and lenses which sell in small volumes (and . I mean they could of course just manufacture the Z9 for three years in silence and then release all the units at once but what would that help? They would have a dated product and large warehouse costs in the meanwhile. It's better to ship it for some people and the rest can wait for delivery for a few months. Many of us probably have to save for some time to be able to buy these things anyway. If Nikon only made one camera and one lens and had a 10000 times larger market, I am sure they could optimize manufacture differently. Edited December 30, 2021 by ilkka_nissila

Feeding frenzy, then. Consumeristic. New. Must have. Now.

Need or affordability doesn't count. "Does anyone have one yet! Ooo! Must have one too! Now!" Rather sleep on the street waiting for the store to open and pay through the nose than be patient, act on need instead of desire, and wait until the bugs are removed and the price has dropped. Haven't seen Apple-like scenes re the new Nikon yet, and don't expect to. But really, what's with the rush? Why so much haste? Why speculate about production rates? FOMO?

 

Outdated technology...? Has served us well until someone told us it doesn't.

The best time to buy a Z9 would be when the frenzy focusses on the new Z10. So now may be the time to upgrade to the mk II of the Z6 or Z7. Or get an extra DSLR, sold by one of the many who can't wait to get the new thingy. Even now, for the price of one Z9 you can get about three used but still very good D850s. Hmmm...

bgelfand you mentioned Canon and Sony are delivering 1,000,000 bodies a month. I’m not a marketing person but who in creation is buying all that?

 

Rick H.

bgelfand you mentioned Canon and Sony are delivering 1,000,000 bodies a month. I’m not a marketing person but who in creation is buying all that?

 

Rick H.

 

You will find a link to the article in my post #13 (above). They cite the source of their data. I believe the figure is for worldwide distribution which would include both China and India.

 

I went back and reread the article. The interpretation of the figures is ambiguous. It could be that Nikon is shipping 250,000 unit per year while Canon and Sony are shipping 1,000,000 per year. That would make more sense. But the production figures for the Z9 are given as 3500 which must be per month. As I wrote, it is ambiguous.

 

Please read the article and let me know what you think.

Edited December 31, 2021 by bgelfand

Petapixel isn't exactly known for solidly researched and written articles.

 

The total interchangeable lens camera market is about 6 million units per year. The petapixel article has a sentence comparing Sony and Canon's 1 million (no citation) with Nikon's 3500 which is just for the flagship Z9, it would suggest (if they know anything at all about reporting facts and writing journalism, which they probably do not) they are claiming those are comparable figures between Sony, Canon and Nikon products, in other words they are claiming that Sony and Canon each sell 1 million flagship cameras per month. This is completely wrong. It's likely that Canon and Sony are indeed selling more cameras than Nikon but no way are those 1 million figures monthly or for comparable cameras as the Z9. Flagship sales are only a single-digit percentage fraction of the total camera sales, and total camera sales is around 6 million when adding up all brands.

 

If the 1 million figure is any data point at all, it is annual, not monthly, and includes all mirrorless ILC cameras sold by C and S in a year. But this can't be right, either; the figures should be a bit higher than 1 million each.

 

I miss a time when people went to journalism school or studied a profession before starting to publish their thoughts.

Edited December 31, 2021 by ilkka_nissila

Cumulative CIPA shipping numbers for the year 2021 for mirrorless up to October (latest available) indicate about 2.6M units shipped worldwide. Hence a market share of around 40% amounts to 1M units - so the number given for Canon and Sony above are realistic (though they are for a ten-month period and not monthly).

The DSLR (about 1.9M units shipped Jan-Oct 2021) vs mirrorless market share is roughly 42% vs 58%.

 

I miss a time when people went to journalism school or studied a profession before starting to publish their thoughts.

 

Amen

I bet it sells well...

 

After being out of the country for two months I ended up ordering a Z9 on 12/18, I get it tomorrow, my first new "pro" sized body since the D3. By the way, the new 24-120 F4 S is simply outstanding, far better than the F mount one for sure.

Edited January 6, 2022 by DB_Gallery

I bet it sells well...

 

After being out of the country for two months I ended up ordering a Z9 on 12/18, I get it tomorrow, my first new "pro" sized body since the D3. By the way, the new 24-120 F4 S is simply outstanding, far better than the F mount one for sure.

Congratulations. Are you an NPS member with priority?

Congratulations. Are you an NPS member with priority?

 

Yep, 30 years with NPS this year.

12/18, I get it tomorrow

 

20 days from order to receipt seems likely to annoy non-members who ordered a considerable time before you....:eek:

20 days from order to receipt seems likely to annoy non-members who ordered a considerable time before you....:eek:

 

Should I have mentioned my NPS status when I ordered? :)

Should I have mentioned my NPS status when I ordered?

As long as it's a positive 'status' , rather than being drummed out of the school camera club for using a Canon......:D

As long as it's a positive 'status' , rather than being drummed out of the school camera club for using a Canon......:D

 

sssh..... that was a weak moment in 1991, we don't talk about it

Your secret's safe with me.:)

 

Oh, wait...:p

 

Have you got a date for yours?

Nothing concrete yet, but likely to be by the end of January so I'm told.

 

As I said before, I'm in no rush. :)

20 days from order to receipt seems likely to annoy non-members who ordered a considerable time before you....:eek:

 

Unless they read into what that really means and that is a ton of these are shipping and will fill outstanding orders faster than the most recent estimates.

20 days from order to receipt seems likely to annoy non-members who ordered a considerable time before you....:eek:

 

I don't understand why this would be so. Nikon makes these products primarily for professional photography. Given the destructive impact of the pandemic to professional photography, and many photographers' financial situation, I think it's appropriate that when there is a product which many have waited for years and one that can give a significant advantage to the user in some fields (in particular when silent photography is required or advantageous and the subject is moving), priority is given to professional photographers to get the product when it can make a difference to their livelihood.

I don't understand why this would be so. Nikon makes these products primarily for professional photography. Given the destructive impact of the pandemic to professional photography, and many photographers' financial situation, I think it's appropriate that when there is a product which many have waited for years and one that can give a significant advantage to the user in some fields (in particular when silent photography is required or advantageous and the subject is moving), priority is given to professional photographers to get the product when it can make a difference to their livelihood.

Again, i do not believe, at all, that getting a new camera in a hurry makes a diffrence to their livelihood. If it would, it could only be because these pros lost everything they had in a fire or such, and cannot find any other replacement than this hard to get Z9. Not a believable scenario. It makes no sense to suggest that pandemic struck pros need not only to be served in a hurry but also be given a preferred treatment. They could and should go on doing what they do with what they have. Suggesting that they could not is saying that they would not be able to make a living if Nikon had never even suggested that they would think about perhaps making a thing like this Z9. Pure nonsense.

 

This hurry is pure gadgetism, pure GAS. There is no practical reason for any of it. Just feeding frenzy, fear of missing the party. And inventing excuses to jump the line.

Edited January 7, 2022 by q.g._de_bakker

It would be very interesting, but maybe difficult to find, the actual financial split between NPS and others.

 

I suspect, due to shear numbers, more money is spent by non-pros.

 

Nikon make cameras to sell, they don't care who too.

 

However, they can encourage pros to open their wallets for the latest kit by giving them earlier access.

 

That adds to the buzz that trickles down to future sales.

 

I'm sure there are far more rich photographers than Pro photographers....:)

Again, i do not believe, at all, that getting a new camera in a hurry makes a diffrence to their livelihood.

 

Ordinarily I might agree with you, but silent photography makes a big difference in some situations, including photography of mammals from a hide, and photographing concerts, dance, funerals, wedding ceremonies, speakers at conferences etc. Some events already forbid cameras that are not silent. I believe this will quickly become the norm and loud cameras (such as DSLRs) will be banned from many events or considered like elephants in a china shop.

 

I like DSLRs and optical viewfinders myself, but recognize that attitudes are changing and can see that in a few years customers would be shocked to hear the sound of a DSLR at a wedding. Already it is a source of curious looks (not conductive to candids) and small talk when people hear the sound they seem really surprised that such cameras exist.

 

I do believe that professional photographers get more work, and in some cases, better results, by using a silent camera. Not in all situations, of course, and sometimes, e.g. when working with a model, it can be useful that the model hears when the shot is taken. Photographers have answered to queries about the effects of COVID on their business and frequent response was apparently that it caused initially (during times of severe lockdowns) 80-90% loss. As a result, many quit the business. In such a situation, the photographers that remain active need to have every advantage they can, or at least avoid being disadvantaged. AP and some others shifted their staff gear to Sony to get access to the silent shutter of the A9 series (also for video-stills integration, another factor where the Z9 also helps by offering competitive video features).

 

And this is coming from someone who prefers DSLRs for my photography. I'm just not blind to changes in attitudes nor deaf to stories being told.

It would be very interesting, but maybe difficult to find, the actual financial split between NPS and others.

 

I suspect, due to shear numbers, more money is spent by non-pros.

 

Yes, of course, but for brand recognition it is important for Nikon that their gear is used by high-profile professional photographers as their use of a certain make of camera and lens helps with the credibility of the brand and their products in the eyes of the general public.

 

Also it presents a motivation and a challenge to their engineers, for their products to be sought after by professionals and specialists, and having a motivated staff can help with the productivity of the company.

 

Largely the consumer buyer base is lost to the smartphone. What remains is the professional and advanced amateur photographers. Often the latter aspire of being professionals and thus they look at professional work and also (perhaps regrettably, as many different types of gear could be used for most images) what is being used.

 

I'm sure there are far more rich photographers than Pro photographers....:)

 

That's not really the point. If one only cares about making money then there are better avenues to that than making cameras.

 

Being rich doesn't make one a good photographer. If pros use the gear, there is the impact of great photos being made with Nikon equipment and published which brings fame and recognition to the brand. And it motivates others both on the user and designer side to see this happen.

 

There is often quite a substantial difference in images published online in forums vs. those in magazines or books; the online forums often present images as being great only to capture a sharp image of a subject (time and time again, repeated) whereas in the more traditional media, often there needs to be novelty and larger interest in the content of the image to get published. And again the effect of those memorable images on the public that define our age is important. Having the Z9 associated with beginner snapshots of no substance isn't all that great a prospect.

Edited January 7, 2022 by ilkka_nissila

Again, i do not believe, at all, that getting a new camera in a hurry makes a diffrence to their livelihood. If it would, it could only be because these pros lost everything they had in a fire or such, and cannot find any other replacement than this hard to get Z9. Not a believable scenario. It makes no sense to suggest that pandemic struck pros need not only to be served in a hurry but also be given a preferred treatment. They could and should go on doing what they do with what they have. Suggesting that they could not is saying that they would not be able to make a living if Nikon had never even suggested that they would think about perhaps making a thing like this Z9. Pure nonsense.

 

This hurry is pure gadgetism, pure GAS. There is no practical reason for any of it. Just feeding frenzy, fear of missing the party. And inventing excuses to jump the line.

 

OK, well I can weigh in here and I hope it helps at least from one person’s perspective.

 

First off, it is less about getting the gear in a “hurry” and more along the lines of getting it in time for a seasonal workflow or in some cases, at all in a 6-9 month period. There have been instances like with the D3 that I either would have got it in 3-5 weeks or 8-9 months, not good on the latter end.

 

In my particular case, Covid indeed did impact my income for 2020-2021 by seeing it fall by 65%. While I am able to weather that I still had to put off some things, quickly diversify revenue streams by for example doing more video as some clients wanted to consolidate the manpower footprint as in the case of my hospital clients for annual reports, monthly bulletins and TV ads. This ties up capital in unique ways and often constrains credit lines for longer than usual as was in my case.

 

But specific to me waiting until the last minute to order it, in October-November of last year I did a two month long fine art project in remote North Atlantic Islands all on 120 black and white film that cost me well over $20K to produce all in. So not only did I spend a lot of cash reserves, I also turned down work to boot! So in not knowing what 2022 Q1 revenues might look like, I opted to the last moment to place the order.

 

Now enter ski season and my ski area clients. We are in full swing in the middle of what appears to be a better than average season and to have a Z9’s AF and frame rate to do ad work and it’s 8K motion ability for some of those client’s 15 foot wide multi-panel live displays will put me on very solid footing for this year. If I get the camera in another month or two, then I will still have had a great season but might not have been able to pull off certain outcomes for these clients nearly as well and in the case of 8K video, not at all.

 

I hope this very real scenario helps you re-think the shade you seem to want to cast on the NPS program and why some photographers might actually benefit from getting the gear sooner than later.

It was not my intension to dis the NPS program or deny a working photographer a Z9, far from it.

 

I was merely suggesting that overall Nikon might well make more money from non-pros simply because there are more of them.

 

... and I certainly didn't imply that money makes better photographers/photos! I suspect there may even be an opposite correlation.

 

People who pose with the latest kit (poseurs) are usually not the best photographers.

 

However, the exemplary reasons for needing the latest kit, are often overlooked by many. Simple things like high fps are maligned as completely unnecessarily in cameras by those that don't need them. For capturing un-predictable action, it's about the only way.

 

The latest firmware for the Z9 fixed a fps bottleneck for the duration of 20fps bursts. But 'spray and pray' is a derogatory term implying the photographer is useless at timing their shots. No-one is timing anything specific at 20/30 or 120fps.

 

:)