Forum thread: '35mm C41 Film Selling Very Well'

"These same retailers tell me that some time around late 2017 or early 2018 demand for colour film sharply increased and has remained at that high level."

35mm C41 Film Selling Very Well

Let's see if this trend continues as the years go by.

Does anybody put these 'statistics' in perspective with the world's increasing population? Because, despite Covid, wars and natural disasters doing their best, I'm pretty sure that human beings are continuing to procreate at an exponential rate.

There's more demand for everything, year on year. Why should film be any different?

Film will always be around even if we end up coating second-hand cleaned film bases with pressure pack emulsion, someone will can it.

It's hard to imagine Kodak Alaris for example, re-introducing Ektachrome without the necessary market research as to long term demand, at least 10 years minimum perhaps, for feasibility of costs involved versus profit over that time frame. Any longer than 10 years may well be a bonus for them.

Makers of B&W film don't seem to care, they just keep making it regardless, it's always available it would seem.

What the manufacturers need to watch is how much film we have accumulated in our dedicated film freezers, demand will be low for new film till we've used the frozen film.

Film will always be around even if we end up coating second-hand cleaned film bases with pressure pack emulsion, someone will can it.

I bet the Daguerrotypists, Calotypists, wet-plate coaters and glass dry-plate users thought similarly as well.

All gone the way of wax recording cylinders, reel-to-reel magnetic tape, Betamax, VHS, and the audio and data CD.

Vinyl records are also bucking the trend by apparently making a comeback. But it would be an utter fool who put all their money into re-tooling a new vinyl-stamping plant.

Having said that - the saying "there's one born every minute" is probably truer today than it ever was.

We are making more than twice the amount of rolls in 2019 than we made in 2015, and it's been a steady increase. It's gone up 15, 20 even 30% per year. So it's great for us - it's been a challenge for us - but it's great for us to see that growth.

Ed Hurley

General manager of film - Eastman Kodak Company

from this video:

Vinyl is not "apparently" making a comeback. It is making a comeback. See:

https://www.statista.com/chart/7699/lp-sales-in-the-united-states/

There's more demand for everything, year on year. Why should film be any different?

Because some products see spikes in demand, while some have steady growth, while some have steady declines, while some have sharp declines. IOW, not all products are equal.

Everything required to make a photograph can be done with 1840s technology.

Pretty much!

Everything required to make a photograph can be done with 1840s technology.

Sure, if you're happy to have exposures running into minutes.

'Making a comeback' is simply a glitch on an historical timeline. Once-popular comedians and rock stars make comebacks. Then a few years later nobody remembers their names or faces.

Film volumes are way up over the last few years for both processing and raw films sales. Been interesting hearing about this from friends in the industry. Should be no surprise though…I see more people out with film camera now than I did a decade ago.

It's a satisfying medium to use. That's true whether you're using a modern AF SLR or an old pre-war rangefinder. And it is much more interesting. I tend to only read articles in American Cinematographer which deal with productions shot on film. Digital is great but it's also boring. I really like my Micro 4/3 kit, that's for sure.

some products see spikes in demand, while some have steady growth, while some have steady declines,

How I wish this product would decline steadily with subsequent price drop, Bronica ETRsi 35mm W film back. I'd love to get one for my Bonica but not at US$800, and they are selling for that. For me that would be over AU$1,000 ... out of the question. High demand for film equipment probably means high demand for film. I can't imagine a film back at that price sitting on a shelf just for display. I bought a 35mm N a little while ago and considered myself lucky to get it at US$100, because they are now US$260

Link ....

Rare TOP MINT Zenza Bronica ETR S Si 135 W Film Back Panorama From JAPAN #F452 | eBay

I was the thread starter on that post on Photrio/ APUG. I dropped off some rolls of C41 at Kerrisdale cameras today. They said that they've had such an increase of film coming in, that their 2 day service has turned into a 4 day service.

I use those folks in Victoria.

Ed Hurley

General manager of film - Eastman Kodak Company

 

from this video:

 

Vinyl is not "apparently" making a comeback. It is making a comeback. See:

Infographic: The Vinyl Comeback Continues

Very true. Nothing “apparent” about it. The film volume increase has been discussed by Kodak, Fuji and Ilford.

"These same retailers tell me that some time around late 2017 or early 2018 demand for colour film sharply increased and has remained at that high level."

 

35mm C41 Film Selling Very Well

 

Let's see if this trend continues as the years go by.

According to nearby C-41/E-6 lab, demand has gone up during Covid.

It seems that social distancing encourages hobbies that are done at a distance.

How I wish this product would decline steadily with subsequent price drop, Bronica ETRsi 35mm W film back.

You could just crop the standard frame on 120 film, and get exactly the same image. Slightly more expensive to shoot, but won't be cut in half by an automatic mini lab processor, and a lot easier to scan or enlarge.

You could just crop the standard frame on 120 film, and get exactly the same image. Slightly more expensive to shoot, but won't be cut in half by an automatic mini lab processor, and a lot easier to scan or enlarge.

The point I was endeavoring to make was that the demand for film seems certain to follow demand for film cameras and equipment, and that the high prices for some of that gear is probably indicative of the expectation and desire to have film to feed through it. Film is available, and while ever it is, the prices for desirable film gear is likely to remain high

I have a modified folder adapted for 120 film, it's already panoramic due to the old 65x109mm film gate, but If I want the images to be even more panoramic I can crop them a little top and bottom as per the format ratio of this terrible neg developed in Russian movie film C41, not my usual process.

point I was endeavoring to make was that the demand for film seems certain to follow demand for film cameras and equipment, and that the high prices for some of that gear is probably indicative of the expectation and desire to have film to feed through it.

Of course, but that assumes this current 'fad' will continue. There's are very good reasons why the majority of erstwhile lifelong film users abandoned it, as soon as digital could compete on IQ terms. Those reasons haven't changed or gone away. Therefore I strongly suspect that these new converts and neophytes to the film cause will drop it like a red-hot stone when it's cost, inconvenience, unreliability and (in 35mm) piss-poor image quality become apparent to them.

Of course, but that assumes this current 'fad' will continue. There's are very good reasons why the majority of erstwhile lifelong film users..."

 

This thread is more about their grandchildren, who don't seem to care about those reasons.

 

"...abandoned it, as soon as digital could compete on IQ terms. Those reasons haven't changed or gone away. Therefore I strongly suspect that these new converts and neophytes to the film cause will drop it like a red-hot stone when it's cost, inconvenience, unreliability and (in 35mm) piss-poor image quality become apparent to them.

It may have had more to do with saving time and energy (as well as the all-important what the client or employer wants) than technical --let's be specific-- image quality, which is, to update HCB, "a bourgeois concept".

Of course, but that assumes this current 'fad' will continue. There's are very good reasons why the majority of erstwhile lifelong film users abandoned it, as soon as digital could compete on IQ terms. Those reasons haven't changed or gone away. Therefore I strongly suspect that these new converts and neophytes to the film cause will drop it like a red-hot stone when it's cost, inconvenience, unreliability and (in 35mm) piss-poor image quality become apparent to them.

That is what I thought when Holga and Diana became popular. But the whole idea behind those is poor image quality.

Since many seem to believe that the image quality of an LCD screen that you might be reading this on is good enough,

and I suspect good 35mm film can do that, maybe that isn't the reason. (Not to mention those who only

view images on a cellphone screen.)

At some point, higher resolution is needed in case you want to crop, and maybe severely crop.

But if you print whole images, or display them on an LCD screen, high-end digital cameras are

way overkill.

When I was in college, high power and low distortion stereo systems were popular. It didn't matter that

you couldn't play that loud in the dorm, or hear anywhere close to the low distortion of modern

(at the time) transistor amplifiers. (And now an iPhone and ear buds are popular.)

Also, the low cost of shooting digital gives quantity over quality. People shoot a lot, hoping that one or

two will turn out. But those shooting more expensive film, think a little before shooting.

According to a nearby lab, film use went up during Covid. I wouldn't have guessed, but it seems

that social distancing encouraged many hobbies, including film photography. It might go down as

it goes away, but maybe not so fast as you might think.

It's a satisfying medium to use. That's true whether you're using a modern AF SLR or an old pre-war rangefinder. And it is much more interesting. I tend to only read articles in American Cinematographer which deal with productions shot on film. Digital is great but it's also boring. I really like my Micro 4/3 kit, that's for sure.

The dispute between film and digital is boring. The concept of "old" vs "new" technology is also boring. Film and digital are different mediums for photography, each with their strengths and weaknesses. They co-exist. It is worth mentioning that the technical qualities of photographs are also a consequence of the lenses -- and also the physical size of the sensor or film.

I prefer film to digital, although I use both. I like mirrorless cameras because I can easily adapt my film lenses to them, and those lenses impart characteristics I like about film to the digital photo. These days I tend to use film for b&w, and digital for color.

"Digital is great but it's also boring." Do you mean the process of making a digital photograph, or the photos themselves?

Of course, but that assumes this current 'fad' will continue. There's are very good reasons why the majority of erstwhile lifelong film users abandoned it, as soon as digital could compete on IQ terms. Those reasons haven't changed or gone away. Therefore I strongly suspect that these new converts and neophytes to the film cause will drop it like a red-hot stone when it's cost, inconvenience, unreliability and (in 35mm) piss-poor image quality become apparent to them.

Wet Rag!