ShunCheung Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Not sure how many of you have the latest EN-EL15c battery that comes standard with the Z5, Z6 ii and Z7 ii. Version C was announced a year ago in July 2020 along with the Z5. The C can hold more charge, 2280mAh, compared to all previous versions at 1900mAh. However, upon closer inspection, I noticed that the EN-EL15c has an extra groove next to the electronic contacts. Of course that is the side of the battery you insert into the camera. None of the earlier EN-EL15, a or b has that groove. Right now that groove doesn't seem to make any difference. However, in the future, Nikon can easily add an indentation inside the battery chamber on a new camera body to match that groove, such that only the EN-EL15c can be fully inserted into those new cameras. The older EN-EL15 batteries and many 3rd-party clones that don't have such groove will become useless on new camera bodies. Nikon did something similar 16 years ago with the EN-EL3e and the D200. The newer EN-EL3e has a wider groove and can be inserted into the older D50, D70, and D100, but the old EN-EL3, non-e, cannot be fully inserted into the later D200, D300, and D700. I would pay attention to that groove for any battery purchase if you want them to be more future proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidTriplett Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Shun, thanks for the heads-up. This is good to know, particularly for those of us who keep stuff forever (or longer)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Interesting that the b version has the prototype extra groove, all be it in the form of 2 smaller slit/slots. 2 mins with a modelling knife and you've made it into a c fitting.....:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I wonder if the groove is there to control or to prevent potential damage or malfunction on future cameras (due to using older batteries with outdated circuitry or whatever), or just a dishonest solution to force users to buy more batteries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I wonder if the groove is there to control or to prevent potential damage or malfunction on future cameras (due to using older batteries with outdated circuitry or whatever), or just a dishonest solution to force users to buy more batteries... I believe that's what's called a Rhetorical Question......;) However, I wonder if it's as simple as it allows in-body charging, which is actually just a part of your second suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 Nikon first introduced the EN-EL15 back in 2010 with the D7000, to replace the EN-EL3e, which has exposed electronic contacts and was no longer in compliance with Japanese safety regulations. Of course there are the two Li-ion 01 and Li-ion 20 variations, but Nikon didn't introduce the EN-EL15a until the D850 in 2017. However, after that we have had the EN-EL15b (2018, Z6/Z7) and the c (2020, Z5) in quick succession. I am sure Nikon put that groove there for a reason. The EN-EL15c may have additional electronics inside so that a future camera may require that to function. The groove is there so that Nikon can physically block old batteries, which might not work anyway without proper electronics. You may use a mill or something to make your own groove, but it might not work anyway. We'll see. So far, all versions of genuine EN-EL15 batteries can be used on all Nikon cameras that use it, from the D7000 to V1 (Nikon 1), D800, D500, ... Z5, Z6, and Z7. (I believe that list includes the V1, D500, all D600 series, D750, D780, all D800 series, all D7000 series, and so far all single-digit Z. Most likely the future Z9 will use a bigger battery, and the D700 itself, introduced in 2008, uses the old EN-EL3e.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I'd hope the Z9 will take the EnEL18....:) But I suspect it won't.....:( Wasn't there a newer version of the EnEl18 registered in Russia or something?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) It could also be used for mechanical identification of the battery with a feeler. I'm not sure why Nikon would want to break the long line of compatibility with EN-EL15 series batteries right up to the latest c version. The latest EN-EL18 is now also version c. Though I can't see any new groove in that one. Edited July 9, 2021 by ilkka_nissila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I'd hope the Z9 will take the EnEL18....:) I guess that depends mainly on how thick the camera body is, if the vertical grip is similar in dimensions as an D4, D5, or D6 then an EN-EL18 series battery might work. Nikon did use EN-EL15 series in the Z6/Z7 so it's not that they purposefully change the battery type without justification. The Z fc doesn't use EN-EL15 because it's so thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Used to be that batteries provided electrical power. Period. Now we're discussing grooves that may be there to prevent disasters happening due to mismatched electronics and such. Next generation should use AA or AAA again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Next generation should use AA or AAA again. Only if you don't want small cameras any more....cylinders don't pack very well at-all....;) However, if you take apart a En-El4, you still find a bunch of cylinders and some 'wasted' space....:p Sadly Nikon don't have a great record in power management via software/firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 As I mentioned earlier, back in 2005, Nikon did something similar with the transition from the EN-EL3 (black) to EN-EL3e (gray). Nikon first started using the EN-EL3 with the 2002 D100, which I happen to have, and it continued to the D70 (2004), D70S (2005), and D50 (2005). I know the D70S came with an EN-EL3a, which is essentially the same thing. However, at the end of 2005, Nikon introduced the D200 and the EN-EL3e. The E version has three electronic contacts instead of two, but somehow Nikon had already reserved space for the new, 3rd contact in the middle. The groove to the right of the contacts was widened and is no longer rectangular. There is a matching ridge inside the battery chamber for the D200 and also the subsequent D300, D300S, D80, D90 and D700. Therefore, any old EN-EL3 or EN-EL3a cannot be fully inserted into the newer bodies. But that was something we knew immediately with the simultaneous introduction of the D200 and EN-EL3e. What Nikon is doing with the extra groove on the EN-EL15c is, at least, unknown to me. Differences between EN-EL3e and EN-EL3/EN-EL3a batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) I noticed that the EN-EL15C has an extra groove next to the electronic contacts. Quite confusing now. I have Z6, Z7, and Z7ii. Only one battery has that extra groove (En-EL15C). All batteries (EN-EL15, EN-EL 15B, EN-EL15C) work with Z6 and Z7. Yet only EN-EL15C (groove or no groove) and one(1) EN-EL15 work with my N7ii. I have no desire to spend hours to discover the root cause, so those that do not work with N7ii are on the bench. Edited July 10, 2021 by Mary Doo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I tested an older EN-EL15 (Li-Ion20) on the Z6II and it seemed to work fine. I think maybe a fault in the battery or contacts might cause your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 AFAIK, only the c version allows in camera charging. I assumed it was coded into the battery chip. Maybe it's a simple feeler.? So, what's with the twin mini slots (in the same location) on the b version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 b also allows in camera usb charging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) b also allows in camera usb charging. Ah, OK..... missed that. Maybe that slot IS relevant to in-camera charging....? However, I just looked up inside the battery chamber of my Z6ii and there's nothing obvious in that location. Edited July 10, 2021 by mike_halliwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Mary, do you have firmware version 1.20 on your Z7 ii and you are getting this error: "This battery cannot be used. It does not communicate properly with this camera. To use the camera safely, close a battery designated for use in this camera"? I think you may have counterfeit batteries, especially EN-EL15b and the serial number ends with AA0866. Apparently a bunch of those counterfeit batteries were sold through major stores including Adorama, B&H, etc. around April, May 2019. If you can take a picture of the flat side of the battery, that would help. A genuine EN-EL15b should weight around 80 grams, +- a gram or two. Some counterfeits are several grams off. Their holograms do not have the four cuts on them. And the font for the Japanese word "fire," highlighted in red below, is different. The following wiki page shows the two fonts in large prints on the top right. Counterfeit batteries tend to have the top font. Genuine batteries use the bottom font. 火 - Wiktionary. Some of those counterfeits are very difficult to distinguish from genuine ones. Edited July 10, 2021 by ShunCheung 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I may not have updated my camera firmware yet. Yes, there may be counterfeit batteries. Not being as technically curious as some of you folks here. I am taking the easy way out. So I just use the ones that are compatible with my Z7ii because they can also be used with Z6/Z7. I put aside the ones that do not work with Z7ii because I would rather not have to remember which ones work with which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) Mary, as long as you have enough batteries that work on all cameras, you should be fine. Otherwise, I would just get a couple more genuine EN-EL15c. I think that extra groove will eventually be significant for future compatibilities. If those other batteries are indeed counterfeit, I would be very careful with them. For one thing I am concerned about overheating during charging. And some Li-ion batteries can swell after 2, 3 years. At one point I had two iPhone 5, work and personal. The batteries inside both expanded after like 2 years. The result was that the front glass split off from the casing. If left inside a camera for a long time, potentially those batteries can get stuck or even damage the camera. Edited July 12, 2021 by ShunCheung 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I always though the 2 rectangular 'holes' just above the Nikon hologram were for a pick-and-place robot grab......:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I am concerned about overheating during charging. And some Li-ion batteries can swell after 2, 3 years. Will pay attention. Not sure about the swelling part. Never saw one. Thanks. At one point I had two iPhone 5, work and personal. The batteries inside both expanded after like 2 years. I am constantly amazed that my IPhone 11 Pro Max never get even slightly warm to the touch. I charge it every night but really each charge is good for two days. Why would your batteries expand? Is it due to the warm or humid weather in your part of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 For a short while in 2013 I worked for a company called Asurion, which is in the business of insuring mobile phones and also repairing them. They have a web site on the battery swelling issue: Swollen battery in your phone or laptop – what you need to know | Asurion Back in 2015 or so, both of my iPhone 5 had swollen batteries. Maybe it is me as I tend to keep the charge level high. After that, I had an iPhone 6 without any issues. I got my current iPhone 8 Plus in early 2018, and there is no issue after 3+ years. My oldest EN-EL15 battery is from 2010 when I got my D7000. Today it can still power my Z6ii, but I exchanged all of my other older batteries in 2016 when Nikon had that Li-ion01 exchange program for then new D500 owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 A genuine EN-EL15b should weight around 80 grams, +- a gram or two. Some counterfeits are several grams off. Their holograms do not have the four cuts on them. And the font for the Japanese word "fire," highlighted in red below, is different. The following wiki page shows the two fonts in large prints on the top right. Counterfeit batteries tend to have the top font. Genuine batteries use the bottom font. 火 - Wiktionary. Some of those counterfeits are very difficult to distinguish from genuine ones. [ATTACH=full]1394669[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1394670[/ATTACH] I just found an "EN-EL 15B" - looking exactly like your illustration except for the serial number - that actually works with my Z7ii. I am writing to correct my previous posts saying that none of my EN-EL 15B work with my Z7ii. So now, as far as my Z7ii is concerned, so far all 15C work with it (3rd party or not), and the non-C ones may or may not work with it - though they all work with Z6 & Z7. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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