Death of the F mount

I predict this thread will outlive the F-mount. The F-mount is dead, long live the Z-mount!

There are a number of duplication in those F DX lenses thou like the super wide zooms and the 18-55mm's, and the 55-200mm and the 70-300mm.

Z DX have already the mid zoom lens right and a Z DX tele zoom.

 

Yes, there are dupes in the F DX lenses, which is why I just said more than a dozen, vs the 26 F DX lenses that are on Nikon's web site.

 

Just TWO Z DX lenses, leaves a LOT of holes to fill.

 

Sorry but I don't consider the Z DX 16-50 "right." It is nice to see the 18-55 pushed down to 16, but that does not make it "right."

 

The Z DX 50-250 is close enough on the long end to displace the F DX 70-300, so we'll call that good.

 

They need an ultra-wide like the 10-20 or 10-24. Nikon has it for F DX.

 

Long term, they need a set of FAST zooms.

• A 16-50/2.8 (a DX equiv to the FX 24-75, Nikon has a F DX 17-55/2.8),
  
  • I use a Tamron F DX 17-50/2.8.
    

  [*]A longer 16-80/2.8 (a DX equiv to the FX 24-120. Nikon has a F DX 16-80/2.8-4),

  • This would be my "fast" alternate lens to the 18-140, to get with a Z DX camera.
    

  [*]A 40-150/2.8 (a DX equivalent to the FX 70-200/2.8, which Nikon has frustratingly NEVER made for the DX users).

  • The closest "in production" lens is the Tamron F FX 35-150/2.8-4.
    
  • Due to lack of options at the time, I got a Nikon F FX 70-200. If the Tamron lens was available when I bought the 70-200, I would have bought the Tamron instead.
    

Primes:

• A 24/1.8 moderate wide (a DX equivalent to the FX 35)
   
  
• A 35/1.8 normal (Nikon has one for F DX)
  
  • I got the 35, only because Nikon did/does not have a F DX 24/1.8.
    

  [*]A 60/1.8 short tele

  • I use a F FX 50/1.8 on my D7200
    

  [*]Nikon released a compact Z FX 28/2.8 that they are marketing with the DX Cf camera.

  • Great for a compact lens.
     
    
  • But f/2.8 is relatively slow for a prime. Get me down to at least f/2.
    

A macro lens would be needed to flesh out the system. Nikon has it for F DX.

The Z FX 50 macro would work.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Gary Naka

 

Long term, they need a set of FAST zooms.

• A 16-50/2.8 (a DX equiv to the FX 24-75, Nikon has a F DX 17-55/2.8),
  
  • I use a Tamron F DX 17-50/2.8.
    

  [*]A longer 16-80/2.8 (a DX equiv to the FX 24-120. Nikon has a F DX 16-80/2.8-4),

  • This would be my "fast" alternate lens to the 18-140, to get with a Z DX camera.
    

  [*]A 40-150/2.8 (a DX equivalent to the FX 70-200/2.8, which Nikon has frustratingly NEVER made for the DX users).

  • The closest "in production" lens is the Tamron F FX 35-150/2.8-4.
    
  • Due to lack of options at the time, I got a Nikon F FX 70-200. If the Tamron lens was available when I bought the 70-200, I would have bought the Tamron instead.
    

Primes:

• A 24/1.8 moderate wide (a DX equivalent to the FX 35)
   
  
• A 35/1.8 normal (Nikon has one for F DX)
  
  • I got the 35, only because Nikon did/does not have a F DX 24/1.8.
    

  [*]A 60/1.8 short tele

  • I use a F FX 50/1.8 on my D7200
    

  [*]Nikon released a compact Z FX 28/2.8 that they are marketing with the DX Cf camera.

  • Great for a compact lens.
     
    
  • But f/2.8 is relatively slow for a prime. Get me down to at least f/2.
    

A macro lens would be needed to flesh out the system. Nikon has it for F DX.

The Z FX 50 macro would work.

 

While there is a F mount DX 17-55mm F2.8 that lens was never updated by Nikon. Some might argue that now that there are FX cameras if people wanted such a DX lens Nikon would indirectly tell them to go with FX F mount or Z mount.

 

Z FX mount there is a 24mm F1.8. I just checked. The F mount 24mm F1.8 is a FX lens also.

 

Yep they need to add a super wide zoom 10-24 DX kinda lens and a 35mm DX lens. Maybe a 40mm Z macro.

The 28 mm f/2.8 and 50 mm f/2.8 are quite compact and lightweight, I think DX Z users should be reasonably happy with the compromise. Not dedicated DX lenses but then again mixed format (FX+DX) users will be happy that they can use most lenses on both FX and DX cameras, saving money and hassle.

 

I hope Nikon continues to make more compact primes along with the high-end S-line lenses. A lot of people appreciate compact kit.

Edited July 6, 2021 by ilkka_nissila

So what is your prediction? When the F mount is dead, Fmount lenses will be cheaper or more expensive? I would still use F mount forever but need to know when should I buy the lenses.

For now Nikon still sell more F-mount than Z-mount cameras, as far as I know. I think talk of the death of F mount is a bit premature. I like DSLRs and optical viewfinders and intend to keep using them for the next 20 years. After that it depends on my health whether I am shooting at all. At some point I have to stop shooting in order to have enough time to organize and edit my pics.

 

I will acquire a small amount of Z-mount gear to cover such applications as silent photography. For now the 1/38s read time of the Z6 sensor is not fast enough to avoid all rolling shutter and banding problems that may occur but it may be adequate for some semi-static situations in natural light. At least 1/38s is faster than the Z50 or Z7 II's sensor read times. Ideally the silent shutter would be as fast as the mechanical shutter or a global shutter where each of the photosites is read at the same time. Then there would not be any problems with shutter-induced vibration or banding or rolling shutter issues, and fast shutter speeds could be used for flash as well, without special high-speed sync techniques.

 

I recently bought a second D850 to ensure that I can keep using my F-mount system without too much compromise even in the unfortunate event that Nikon might close their business. It works splendidly.

 

I would expect second-hand prices of F-mount gear to decrease over time in general, but a lot of this already happened as some users have moved to Sony, Fuji or Canon (or Z mount) and people have sold some of their older gear. Some items will remain expensive if they are rare and in demand. But anyway, it makes sense to budget-conscious users to take advantage of the second hand market. For Nikon this can be a bit of a problem as the new gear may seem really expensive compared to second hand products. For example a 200-400/4 could be purchased for 1000€. Try to sell a 11500€ 180-400/4 in the presence of such competition from their own previous products.

Edited July 6, 2021 by ilkka_nissila

I would still use F mount forever but need to know when should I buy the lenses.

What are you after specifically?

 

For something like the F mount 105mm 1.4E, I'm surprised Nikon don't make a Z mount version with a fixed extension tube. I know there will be those that are F and Z users, so can use the lens with the FTZ, but their number will quickly diminish.... and although the FTZ works, it's an ugly great lump.

 

Or maybe Nikon is going to make an E-Only FTZ with no mechanics.... AKA a 30.5mm extension tube with simple pass-through connections.!!

What are you after specifically?

 

For something like the F mount 105mm 1.4E, I'm surprised Nikon don't make a Z mount version with a fixed extension tube. I know there will be those that are F and Z users, so can use the lens with the FTZ, but their number will quickly diminish.... and although the FTZ works, it's an ugly great lump.

 

Or maybe Nikon is going to make an E-Only FTZ with no mechanics.... AKA a 30.5mm extension tube with simple pass-through connections.!!

I want some long lenses. Perhaps some older 300mm f/2.8 or 600mm f/5.6 or something like that. I am after the older versions. I want the lenses with aperture ring so I can use them on my F3 as well.

AKA a 30.5mm extension tube with simple pass-through connections.!!

....with any comms 'translation' chip added of course.....;)

For something like the F mount 105mm 1.4E, I'm surprised Nikon don't make a Z mount version with a fixed extension tube. I know there will be those that are F and Z users, so can use the lens with the FTZ, but their number will quickly diminish.... and although the FTZ works, it's an ugly great lump.

 

For Z mount, Nikon seem to use dual stepper motors in many of their larger lenses. Stepper motors require smaller (lighter) focus groups and this solution involves two focus groups and two motors (instead of one focus group with large elements, two smaller ones are used). This would mean redesigning the optics of the lens to suit a Z-friendly focus motor solution. It's unlikely that they'd produce native Z mount lenses that aren't optical redesigns to take advantage of both the short flange distance as well as to make the optics compatible with the motor solution that is more mirrorless-friendly. Notice how quiet the Z lenses are when focusing? It's almost like there isn't even a whisper.

 

The 105/1.4, nice as it is, has a major issue with cat's eyes in the out-of-focus highlights and swirly appearance of the out-of-focus areas in many situations. I believe they can alleviate this issue greatly by taking advantage of the larger diameter of the Z mount. But it may not be their first priority to redesign a relatively recent lens like the 105/1.4.

Edited July 6, 2021 by ilkka_nissila

So what is your prediction? When the F mount is dead, Fmount lenses will be cheaper or more expensive? I would still use F mount forever but need to know when should I buy the lenses.

 

The problem is you can wait and wait and wait, until you die.

And during that time, you don't have use of the lens you are waiting for.

 

So, if you want the lens, and the price is low enough, GET IT, and USE it.

The problem is you can wait and wait and wait, until you die.

And during that time, you don't have use of the lens you are waiting for.

 

So, if you want the lens, and the price is low enough, GET IT, and USE it.

I can wait. Just need to find a point when it's the lowest. I am in no hurry. And if the price is going to go up I would sell some of the lenses I already have.

Reading some of the comments you would almost believe it suddenly is impossible to make photos using F mount cameras.

The more moderate comments merely predict that it will be impossible very soon. Maybe in a year or two - three.

 

What has PNet come to...

Sad.

I can recall when "Film" died. Wonderfully affordable prices on great Nikon film gear (which later could be used with digital cameras). Currently the leading edge of opportunity for F Mount bargains. And yes, they'll still take terrific photos, film or digital!

There's no reason that something like the D850 won't be taking pics in 20 years.

 

It may be seen as a dinosaur by then and 'obsolete' but I'm sure it will work fine.

 

Any of these cams that take a grip that takes AAs will never run out of juice and SD cards will be just fine.

 

I'm sure there were similar worries when Canon changed mount in 1987!

Reading some of the comments you would almost believe it suddenly is impossible to make photos using F mount cameras.

The more moderate comments merely predict that it will be impossible very soon. Maybe in a year or two - three.

 

What has PNet come to...

Sad.

Yes for sure. The sky is falling down.

 

Anyhow, who cares, if one is serious about photography, make the photo with whatever; cell phone, pin hole, self-made gadget... ;)

While there is a F mount DX 17-55mm F2.8 that lens was never updated by Nikon. Some might argue that now that there are FX cameras if people wanted such a DX lens Nikon would indirectly tell them to go with FX F mount or Z mount.

 

Z FX mount there is a 24mm F1.8. I just checked. The F mount 24mm F1.8 is a FX lens also.

 

Yep they need to add a super wide zoom 10-24 DX kinda lens and a 35mm DX lens. Maybe a 40mm Z macro.

 

 

Have you compared the prices of FX and DX lenses?

The FX lenses are generally significantly more $$$ than the DX lens. Following are all list price off the Nikon web site, not sale prices.

• 24/1.8: F-FX is $750, and the Z-FX is $1,000 !!!!
  
• 35/1.8: F-DX is $200, vs F-FX at $530 and Z-FX at $850
   
  
• 50/1.8: F-FX at $220 is the bargain of the FX bunch, and the Z FX at $600.
  

If Nikon can make and sell a F DX 35/1.8 for less than half the price of a F FX 35/1.8, why not a F DX 24/1.8 for a decent price reduction over the F-FX lens.

A LARGE portion of the DX market is the price sensitive consumer market.

Yes I know making FAST wide lenses is not cheap. But, I have a m4/3 Olympus 17/1.8 that is listed on Amazon at $380. So Nikon "should" be able to do a F-DX 24/1.8 lens for significantly less than $750. Canon lists an EF-M 22/2 for $250.

The other issue is simply market demand. Can Nikon sell enough at the projected price to cover the investment?

But then, maybe the DX 35/1.8 normal lens is Nikon's "token" prime for the DX users. And maybe Nikon plans to do same for Z-DX, or not even have a prime.

 

Looking at Canon:

dSLR: Interestingly Canon's APS-C EF-S lenses does not have a 35/1.8 normal lens, but they have a 50/1.8 for $126.

mirrorless: EF-M series, they list the following primes: a wide 22/2 at $250 and normal 32/1.4 at $480.

I can wait. Just need to find a point when it's the lowest. I am in no hurry.

 

That is the point.

If the price SLOWLY and continually drops over the next 20 years, the low point may be 20+ years from now.

Let me know what you buy, in 20 years.

Let me know what you buy, in 20 years.

Not sure how when I am 6 feet under. Do you?

Edited July 6, 2021 by Mary Doo

Not sure how when I am 6 feet under. Do you?

 

Will Photo.net still be around in 20 years?

The world has changed so much in the last 20 years, I don't know what 20 years from now will look like.

 

Well I "hope" I am still around, but who knows.

That is the point.

If the price SLOWLY and continually drops over the next 20 years, the low point may be 20+ years from now.

Let me know what you buy, in 20 years.

I will let you know. I bought a VCR in 2004 for $150. I sold it last week for $300. Yeah VCR was dead.

Will Photo.net still be around in 20 years?

The world has changed so much in the last 20 years, I don't know what 20 years from now will look like.

 

Well I "hope" I am still around, but who knows.

Photo.net was around (more than) 20 years ago. A lot has changed, as you say, but apparently that had little effect on PNet.

But yes, there are no guarantees.

20 years is roughly how far we have come from the first commercially common DSLRs.......:D

Will Photo.net still be around in 20 years?

The world has changed so much in the last 20 years, I don't know what 20 years from now will look like.

 

Well I "hope" I am still around, but who knows.

Well, we may still be around, but may need extra vibration-reduction technology. :eek:

 

But the thing is Nikon already used up "Z", so will they recycle to A, B, C? ("D" is gone too). ;)

Well, we may still be around, but may need extra vibration-reduction technology. :eek:

 

But the thing is Nikon already used up "Z", so will they recycle to A, B, C? ("D" is gone too). ;)

 

I'm part way there with the need for VR to deal with my wobbles.

 

Since Nikon used Z, maybe Nikon will go backwards Y > X > W