Can I still damage my DSLR...

Can I still damage my DSLR if I use a flash unit which exceeds the voltage capacity of the Hot-shoe by attaching the flash to the Sync outlet on the camera with a sync cord ?

Can I still damage my DSLR if I use a flash unit which exceeds the voltage capacity of the Hot-shoe by attaching the flash to the Sync outlet on the camera with a sync cord ?

Yes. I believe the PC socket and the hot shoe are the same circuit.

Be a bad plan to attach one to the camera. Correct units can be gotten cheaply used. You can still use the old units with a wireless switch, I have one for my old Vivitar 283. If you search this voltage blocker for old photo strobes on digital cameras you will find some options, but I have heard mixed opinions.

Frankly, it's not worth the risk. There are plenty of safe flashguns around, many quite inexpensive. I often get flashguns along with camera kits and job lots from auctions etc. The first thing I do is check the trigger voltage. If it's more than a few volts, I toss it into the bin. It's not only digital cameras that can be damaged either. Plenty of film cameras have sensitive electronics.

Not only is it possble to damage the camera, but it can do that gradually, while seeming to work for a little while.

The trouble is that the blockers (like the Wein Safe Sync) are expensive so it's much better going on line and getting a flash unit that was made for the model of camera you have

 

see Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

OK here is the deal. I was trying to create a DYI Macro/Close-up Flash Rig with 2 low-level old-school manual flash units. The lower the GN(guide number) the better. I went through maybe 5 different brands before I settled on the Vivivtar 200. Why the Vivitar 200 ?? because it had a measly GN of 36, its rather small and compact, it has thyristor technology and it takes a 9 Volt battery .

 

OK here is my original set up. Macro Rig #1

 

 

 

I had to go through 4 Vivitar 200's before I found two that worked. The two that didn't work would charge up, the little light in the back would light up but the flash would not fire. Notice the 2 syncords connected to a spliter which is connected to a Nikon AS-15 Sync terminal which is connected to my Nikon D7000 DSLR. The Nikon D70000 does not have a separate Sync receptacle so you need to use an AS-15 Terminal... The AS-15 brings the voltage of the Vivitars down to a level the camera can handle(I hope). After a few frustrating tries, everything is working fine now and the 2 flashes fire together when I hit the shutter button.

 

One thing about this set-up is that it takes a lot of time to set the arms on the flash bracket shown above. The arms are stiff as heck making the placement of the flash units a tedious and lengthy experience ! I wanted something a little more flexible, so I could shoot bugs and insects on the fly.

 

So I opted for this set up. Macro Rig #2. .

 

This needs a little explanation.

Both Clamps were purchased on Amazon and both came from China and took a heck of a lot of time to get here. I had to modify clamp #2 because the cheap plastic hot-shoe attachment broke the first time I tried to use it:

 

I drilled a hole through the center of the metal clamp and replaced the cheap plastic hot-shoe attachment with one of these:

 

Unfortunately now that the metal Clamp is attached to the hot shoe, there is no way for me to attach the AS-15 or the Splitter Sync cord to the camera ? Even if the Nikon D7000 had a separate Sync like my Canon does, I would still damage the camera. YIKES !

Edited May 13, 2021 by hjoseph7

When I have needed to lower the power output of flash units below the lowest setting I have used neutral density gel. I got mine from Paul C. Buff, but I'm sure that B&H or other places would have it.

Yes. I believe the PC socket and the hot shoe are the same circuit.

Absolutely!

On some cameras the circuits are separate, but the voltage limit still applies to both the hotshoe and P-C socket - if fitted.

 

Nearly all older (pre-1980s certainly) electronic flashes had a trigger voltage of 350 volts or above, since that's the voltage that a Xenon flash-tube needs to fire, and the most commonly used trigger circuit design came straight off the tube feed.

 

The lower voltage measured by a cheap DVM is due to an internal high resistance in series with the trigger socket, that prevents the meter getting a true reading.

 

The highest published 'safe' voltage is that of Nikon DSLRs, which is only 250 volts. Many old flash units from Sunpak, Metz, etc. will exceed that by some margin.

 

An SCA300 compliant flash should have a maximum trigger voltage of only 24 volts on its hotshoe connection, but the co-ax P-C connector may still be much higher.

 

In short. The safest and cheapest way to connect an old flash is to use a pair of radio triggers. They provide absolute isolation, start in price at only a few pounds/euros/dollars and are generally rated at 400 volts. Whereas a Wein safe-sync costs a lot more, and a fried camera costs much, much more!

 

P.S. I think all this voltage-measuring and synch voltage issue has been covered in depth and many times over in the Lighting forum. Do a search there.

Edited May 13, 2021 by rodeo_joe|1

I recommend you get something like this - Link

 

And read this - Link

Thanks Rodeo, I read your link the other day about testing voltages but wasn't sure how to implement it on the-go ? I do have some Cactus triggers lying around somewhere, however this is even simpler, but a little on the expensive side: Wein PC to PC safe sync cable: https://www.amazon.com/Wein-W990515-Safe-Sync-Cable-Camera/dp/B0010CM2QC I already have the Wein Hot-shoe Safe Sync, but it is not suited for this situation since I need the hot-shoe to attach my clamp.

 

I just checked and neither my Canon camera or my Nikon have Sync receptacles, but my Pentax K-5 II does and I have some fine Pentax macro lenses !

 

One thing about these older low-level flash units, is that they only have one bonafide F-stop that you can use for the Thyristor technology to work, otherwise you have to use the flash on Manual. For the Vivitar 200, that F-stop is f5.6/10 feet/ISO 100. I think I can get around that by changing the ISO for example f8/10 feet/ISO 200 or f11/10 feet/ISO 400. Or I can use Neutral Density filters like AJG mentioned to tone down the output of the flash.

Edited May 13, 2021 by hjoseph7

I just checked and neither my Canon camera or my Nikon have Sync receptacles

But a lot of radio trigger receivers do! Even really cheap ones.

 

So you can fit a perfectly safe RF trigger transmitter into the camera hotshoe and couple your flash(es) to the the P-C socket(s) on the matched receiver(s).

but a little on the expensive side: Wein PC to PC safe sync cable:

A lot on the expensive side! And not half as flexible as a set of RF triggers, with no cables to form a trip-hazard either.

 

Personally I think cheap old flashes are just a waste of space. Better to spend a little more on something like a Nikon SB-25 that has totally flexible multi-aperture AA mode and manual control down to 1/64th 'power' in 1/3rd stop decrements. And at maximum output it has the same GN as any currently made speedlight costing several hundred pounds/dollars/euros.

 

Or you can get Yong-Nuo 560 IIIs or IVs that have built-in radio slaving and are settable to 1/128th 'power'. That's 7 stops variation of exposure control in 1/3rd stop steps. Effectively changing the GN from around 30m (real and measured) down to 2.65m - f/9 at about 0.3m (1ft).

"Personally I think cheap old flashes are just a waste of space."

 

I fell in love with the little buggers. i will give a review on all of my collection one day. I just hate carrying a lot of heavy gear. Last year I went to a local botanical garden to shoot some flowers with a bag full of gear. It was only about 75 F degrees and sunny. I was sweating so much that some people in the park asked if it had rained...

I fell in love with the little buggers.

But if they don't do the job efficiently or safely, and need extra gear to make them work, that 'love' is totally misplaced.

 

Look at them for what they are: Mass-produced chunks of plastic containing old, crude and inefficient electronic circuitry and mostly fitted with a cheap unfiltered flash tube that has an unspecified colour-temperature.

 

There's a good reason you can pick them out of 'junk bins' for a single-figure sum.

 

P.S. the usual way to attach flash brackets is to screw them to the tripod bush in the base of the camera; not hang them off the hotshoe! The tripod bush is a stronger fixing, and leaves the hotshoe free for its purpose.

Edited May 17, 2021 by rodeo_joe|1

I would look for a couple of Nikon SB30 flashguns which are extremely versatile. They are small, have fully adjustable manual outputs, auto modes, and can act as flash triggers and slave units too. They aren't compatible with Nikon DSLR's in TTL mode so might be found quite cheaply.

The Nikon SB30 looks good and is exactly what I was looking for: Nikon SB-30 AF-TTL Speedlight - Index Page I might have to include it in my collection. It has variable power in Manual, which none of my other units have except for my SunPak 211 which is a little on the heavy side, also Auto and AF . thanks John !

P.S. the usual way to attach flash brackets is to screw them to the tripod bush in the base of the camera; not hang them off the hotshoe! The tripod bush is a stronger fixing, and leaves the hotshoe free for its purpose.

 

Manfrotto has a similar bracket like the one with the hot-shoe mounted clamp Pictured above, except it mounts on the tripod. Take a look at how awkward this thing looks: Manfrotto 330B Macro Flash Bracket 8024221034226 | eBay the light would be coming from the bottom which is very un-natural.

 

I also have a couple of well made "Butterfly" clamps that mount to the tripod bush which are superior in quality than the two I mentioned in this post, but they are not as flexible. I also purchased some mini-ball heads ($10) that I can attach to the hot shoes of the hot-shoe mounted clamp which give me even more flexibility although I got to admit this is probably overkill....

Edited May 17, 2021 by hjoseph7

Manfrotto has a similar bracket like the one with the hot-shoe mounted clamp Pictured above, except it mounts on the tripod. Take a look at how awkward this thing looks: Manfrotto 330B Macro Flash Bracket 8024221034226 | eBay the light would be coming from the bottom which is very un-natural.

Manfrotto aren't the only maker of brackets, and having the light coming from two directions at once is also totally un-natural.

 

There's this Link and other 'L' brackets that could be coupled together. So there's really no need to use the hotshoe as a wobbly base for a double bracket. That's not what it was designed for.

 

Besides, with all that leverage attached to a hotshoe it would be easy to damage the camera. Maybe even wrench the hotshoe loose, which has been known to happen with Nikon cameras.

"Besides, with all that leverage attached to a hotshoe it would be easy to damage the camera. Maybe even wrench the hotshoe loose, which has been known to happen with Nikon cameras."

 

This is true but how much heavier can this be than a speed-light with 4 batteries, or 2 speed-lights for that matter ? Those so-called flexible arms are not so flexible, at least mine isn't. You really have to eat your oats before trying to adjust them.

 

Here is a shot with the Wein Safe Sync that I can use with my Nikon camera. It has a hot-shoe mount on top. No need to purchase the very expensive Wein PC to PC cable.

 

One thing, I had to add rubber washers where the tightening knobs on the clamp make contact with the frame, otherwise the clamp would spin around like a helicopter.

This is true but how much heavier can this be than a speed-light with 4 batteries...

It's not the weight it's the torque, which is force times leverage. The centre-of-gravity of an ~ 600g speedlight is about 10cm (4") above the hotshoe, with the force acting directly downward most of the time. Tilted sideways that speedlight applies about half a foot-pound torque to the shoe, maximum.

 

Add a 20cm extension arm, with an additional weight of its own, and you have at least twice the 'normal' torque applied to the hotshoe - about 1ft-lb, which doesn't sound much, but probably exceeds any maker's expectation for the strain applied to the shoe.

 

Honestly, a hotshoe just wasn't intended to have a weighted bracket hung off it. So it's probably a good job that the cheap plastic foot snapped off before it could damage the camera.

Edited May 18, 2021 by rodeo_joe|1

Hopefully the Wein Safe Sync will negate some of that extra torque since it has a pretty thick base. Using very light speed lights should help also. This clamp is for casual once in a while use, it certainly is not industrial strength for every day use. You are right though the hot-shoe can get damage, but these hot-shoe clamps or similar are selling like hot cakes on eBay and so far, no major complains.

The other way to do remote flash is to trigger off a master flash.

 

That is a little complicated here, as you probably (mostly) don't want it to

light the subject. But it does isolate them electrically, which is nice.