EN-EL3e - Can Nikon batteries be refreshed

I've bought a couple of 'part used' genuine Nikon batteries, and yes, they were cheap. Trouble is you have no idea how much use they've had, apart from the manufacturing date.

 

Mine were about 3 years old when I bought them, and they have a noticeably shorter useable time than the ones that came with the cameras. With comparable, or slightly less, run-time than the cheap off-brand clones I have.

 

IIRC the used Nikon batteries still cost me more than the cheap copies.

Each of my Nikons have Battery Info in the Setup Menu. Age, percent remaining, shots taken. I also write the date on all batteries with a Sharpie Razor point. Down all the years one Nikon and one Wasabi have failed.

Each of my Nikons have Battery Info in the Setup Menu. Age, percent remaining, shots taken.

Age? None of my Nikons show anything but a vague 'health' scale from 4 to 0. And IME a battery has to be on its death-bed before that near-useless 'health' marker moves away from the good end.

Shots taken resets to zero when the battery is recharged doesn't it?

Age? None of my Nikons show anything but a vague 'health' scale from 4 to 0. And IME a battery has to be on its death-bed before that near-useless 'health' marker moves away from the good end.

 

Shots taken resets to zero when the battery is recharged doesn't it?

I guess all of my cameras are different than yours.

In all these years, I have never seen a battery show anything but 0 in that menu.

Shots taken resets to zero when the battery is recharged doesn't it?

Of course, there's no indicator that shows the total number of shots taken with a battery; only the number taken with the current charge.

I use third party batteries in my Ricoh GR - worked well so far but I have the feeling that the first set isn't holding charge that well anymore. I had one third party battery for the Sony NEX-6 - after a few years it started to "bulge" and I discarded it.

I guess all of my cameras are different than yours.

No. That's what shows on my Nikon DSLRs.

Health/Age - I just misremembered what the label was on the 0-4 scale. The only time I saw it move from zero was after a battery went bad on me and would only shoot about 4 frames per charge.

Admittedly that was an off-brand battery, but I'd had about 2 years use out of it. A good return for a 10 quid outlay IMO.

I use the age indicator on my D7200 as an indicator that the battery will need to be replaced soon, but NOT to tell me to replace it.

I use actual run time to tell me when to replace the battery.

My experience is, a good battery will last me the entire weekend plus Monday. If it only lasts a day, it is time to replace it. Note this is for a D7200 dSLR, not a mirrorless, which SUCKS power.

This is what I told the kids on the school yearbook staff. The camera battery should last the weekend, or at least a double game (JV + Varsity). If it does not last a double game, it is time to throw it out, and replace it. The idea of carrying spare batteries (plural), because they were keeping bad batteries was dumb. Bad batteries should be thrown out and replaced.

Not being a battery engineer, I do not know if you can predict when a camera battery will, "fall off the cliff," and die.

I remember similar to [uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] with NiCd batteries. I would charge them, but they would only hold a small charge, and die quickly. This is why I number my batteries, so I can keep track of, and remove batteries that are failing.

I recently bought a AA/AAA battery analyzer so I can test my AA and AAA batteries, because of the question about some of these AA batteries.

I found that not one of my 24+ Tenergy NiMH batteries, even came close to their rated capacity. They were ALL at least 20% low. Paying extra for their "high capacity" batteries, was a total waste of money. NOT buying that brand NiMH again. Oddly, their NiCd batteries did match their rated capacity.

Not being privy to the specs, and not wanting to cut open a lithium battery, I do not know how the Nikon chargers use the extra contacts on the charger.

I was told by a battery engineer that the 3rd contact on lithium batteries is for Positive Temperature Control (PTC), to tell the charger that the battery is overheating and to shut down. Is this implemented in camera battery chargers, I do not know. But interestingly, I have never seen a 3rd party charger with more than 2 contacts, + and -, no PTC contact.

I have had a few instances where NiMH batteries were overcharged and got HOT. As in too hot to hold and remove from the charger with my bare fingers.

The difference is that a NiMH battery has a vent, a lithium battery does not. So an overcharged lithium battery will generate gas and swell.

If the Nikon batteries have PTC, I would hope that the 3rd party batteries are implementing PTC.

Lots of good info here. Working with lithium ion battery tech on a daily basis I have learnt a lot. Simply put, once a lithium battery discharges too far it is not safe to start using it. The inbuilt circuitry in both the charger and battery will protect against that however and will simply not register a battery if you attempt to charge it.

I had a D1 a few weeks ago. The battery would not accept a charge at all as it was in deep discharge. However I opened the battery case and was able to re-stuff it with brand new cells of correct capacity which got it going again. But connecting cells is hard and they must be tagged type as it is unsafe to attempt to solder to the caps simply as it may harm the venting. Lithium batteries ARE dangerous if not understood, they can burst into flames if provoked. That does take a lot but it can be done. Violent fire.

In the future we may struggle to get batteries so don't throw away failed original Nikon ones, they may be needed if supply of third party ones dries up. Like the special Sony LIP MiniDisc ones. Impossible to find even used.

Like the special Sony LIP MiniDisc ones. Impossible to find even used.

Good to know.

Good to know.

I did replace the battery on my MZR90 years ago.

But then I got a Tascam DR-1 and stopped using it.

And not so long ago, a new battery for the DR-1.

I had a Promaster EN-EL15 (also Li-Ion) that abruptly went totally dead and would not take a charge. It wasn't all that old, so I suspected it of some other fault. So I hooked it up to an unregulated power supply of somewhat higher voltager, and zapped it very briefly. It came back to life, and now takes a charge and works. Not something I'd do indoors, nor if I had any other hope for reviving the battery. And I don't know even now if it was an electronic glitch or a whisker on a cell, or discharged accidentally beyond the ability to trigger the charger, or what. It was never a great battery even when new, and I don't trust it much, but it's useable,

Whiskers were always to story for NiCd cells, and NiMH are probably about the same.

It was usual to discharge a capacitor into one, so the total charge was small, but the current large.

For ordinary overcharge, they vent but otherwise don't do much.

Li-ion I don't know much about the failure mode, but I don't usually try such tricks.

I have noticed that non-rechargeable Li cells tend to stop working after less time than

I think they should if they are not used much. I have found that a quick short circuit

pulse sometimes revives them. It is almost like they forget how much charge is left.

I have a D70s (that I mostly don't use), and D200 and D700 that I do.

Between them I have enough EN-EL3e (or maybe EN-EL3) but I don't know by now

which came with which camera. Usually they work well enough.

I do have one brand X, which seems to not run as long on a charge, or maybe

doesn't charge as much.

Whiskers were always to story for NiCd cells, and NiMH are probably about the same.

I've had no internal shorting issues due to dendritic 'whiskers' with Nickel-metal-hydride cells. Plenty with NiCd cells before that though.

I have a dustbin-sized 80v 22,000uF capacitor that I keep specifically for dendrite blasting. Haven't needed it once since gradually replacing all my old NiCd cells with 'ready to use' NiMH types.

Think I might build a spot-welder with that capacitor now!

I have noticed that non-rechargeable Li cells tend to stop working after less time than

I think they should

Li-ion batteries almost always have a charge-regulator/monitor circuit built into the casing. This circuit is designed to disallow normal charging if the cell voltage falls below some set value (around 2v per cell maybe?). Therefore the self, and circuit-maintaining disharge will eventually result in an apparently dead and un-chargeable battery. Thank you manufacturers!

The solution is, as you've discovered, to zap the cells and circuit with an abnormal voltage. Or, remove the packaging and apply 4 volts directly to each cell, bypassing the pesky 'safety' circuit.

I've had no internal shorting issues due to dendritic 'whiskers' with Nickel-metal-hydride cells. Plenty with NiCd cells before that though.

 

I have a dustbin-sized 80v 22,000uF capacitor that I keep specifically for dendrite blasting. Haven't needed it once since gradually replacing all my old NiCd cells with 'ready to use' NiMH types.

 

Think I might build a spot-welder with that capacitor now!

I always thought it was more luck, but you might be right.

I tend to use them differently now, which might be why I was less sure.

Li-ion batteries almost always have a charge-regulator/monitor circuit built into the casing. This circuit is designed to disallow normal charging if the cell voltage falls below some set value (around 2v per cell maybe?). Therefore the self, and circuit-maintaining disharge will eventually result in an apparently dead and un-chargeable battery. Thank you manufacturers!

 

The solution is, as you've discovered, to zap the cells and circuit with an abnormal voltage. Or, remove the packaging and apply 4 volts directly to each cell, bypassing the pesky 'safety' circuit.

I mostly have that with 123 cells, such as for some electronic film cameras.

Some times ago, I got some 223, which are actually two 123 cells in a plastic case,

then took them out of the case. These are not rechargeable so shouldn't have a charge

regulator.

I have not yet tried opening an EN-EL3e, mostly because the ones I have work well enough, though

not always as well as new. Since there are more than two terminals on the outside, it seems that

there must be more than just two cells. I have suspected a temperature sensor, but don't actually know.

I also have a D1 and one dead EN-4 pack to go with it. I believe this is a bunch of unusual

sized NiMH cells, but haven't tried opening it yet.

Since there are more than two terminals on the outside, it seems that

there must be more than just two cells.

Nope! There are only two cells inside an En-El3(e).

Plus a small circuit board.

Nope! There are only two cells inside an En-El3(e).

Plus a small circuit board.

What does the circuit board do?

What does the third contact do?

(All mine work well enough, that I don't feel like opening one.)

I now ordered some Kastar, that is non-Nikon, EN-EL3e and charger.

I will see if, as above, they work better with their own charger.

What does the circuit board do?

What does the third contact do?

Circuit board is a charge/discharge monitor/regulator. As said above, one of its functions is to deny an overly low-voltage cell from charging. Why? I have no idea, apart from selling more batteries.

Third contact is usually a temperature sensor output. It's plainly marked 'T' on some batteries. Many chargers use delta-T as an indicator of charge status.

Circuit board is a charge/discharge monitor/regulator. As said above, one of its functions is to deny an overly low-voltage cell from charging. Why? I have no idea, apart from selling more batteries.

 

Third contact is usually a temperature sensor output. It's plainly marked 'T' on some batteries. Many chargers use delta-T as an indicator of charge status.

The temperature sensor was what I meant by "more than just two cells", but didn't actually know what it was.

I think temperature sensors have been used with NiCd packs, too.

I have gotten several Kastar relatively recently, so fat they are as good as any batteries I've used in Nikon.

Do you charge with the Nikon charger or Kastar charger? I ordered the package deal of one charger and two battery packs.

The temperature sensor was what I meant by "more than just two cells", but didn't actually know what it was.

 

I think temperature sensors have been used with NiCd packs, too.

Some NiCd packs did have temp sensors. My Lumedyne packs have them. But that is my ONLY NiCd pack that had a temp sensor. The other packs were simply plastic cases around the cells, no electronics.

Temp sensors work in two ways.

#1 - Tells the charger the battery temp, and it is the charger that stops charging. This requires another battery contact to the charger, to communicate to the charger.

#2 - Opens a temp switch in the battery, and stopping the charge. This is internal to the battery, thus not requiring another contact to the charger. This is how the Lumedyne battery pack works.

Some batteries use only one method, others (like some laptop computer batteries) use both, for safety.

If your camera battery charger has only TWO contacts, it is

#1 relying on electronically detecting the full charge point, and maybe

#2 having a temp switch inside the battery to catch the full/overcharge heating. #2 above.

Note, I have not seen any non-OEM Lithium camera battery charger with more than two contacts.

If the battery does not have an internal temp switch (#2 above), and if the electronics miss the full charge point and keeps charging the battery, then there is nothing to prevent an overcharge.

Murphy visited me, and I have had this happen with NiMH batteries, which got SO HOT, that I could not touch the batteries with my bare fingers.

Unlike NiCd and NiMH, Lithium batteries do NOT have vents. When Lithium batteries overcharge, gas is generated, and that gas causes the battery to swell.

While I only have a small sample of swollen batteries, I have not seen a swollen battery "unswell."

A swollen battery could get stuck in the camera, and that could be a PITA to remove. Worst case, the camera has to go into the shop to get the battery removed.

I do not know how the various Nikon batteries and chargers communicate.

BUT . . . I have seen first-hand, where Canon T7 batteries would not charge in a 3rd party charger, and the 3rd party batteries would not charge in the Canon T7 charger.

We decided that we did not want to deal with the operational confusion this created, and stopped using 3rd party batteries.

So you need to check the situation for YOUR camera battery.

I think I am remembering a Vivitar NiCd battery pack for the 283 flash that would

charge in 15 minutes. As well as I ever knew, it did that with a temperature sensor

and extra contacts, but I never took one apart to find out.

Now that we decided that EN-EL3e have a temperature sensor and third contact,

I look at the chargers. I have both the Nikon charger and Kastar charger, both of

which only have two contacts. If the third contact is a temperature sensor

(it seems to have an S next to it), it isn't being used!

The D7200 uses the EN-EL15, different and I don't know how it works.

The D70 uses the EN-EL3, while the D70s uses the EN-E3a,

with the EN-EL3a backwards compatible with both.

The MH-18 and MH-18a both don't have a contact for the center (S)

contact on any of those battery packs. Which charger do you have for yours?