johnsmith14 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Hi, I picked up a Jupiter 8 lens from a garage sale for next to nothing, since it looks to be in mint condition. I've been reading online and wanted to gather some opinions on a viable rangefinder body to use with it. To my understanding, it is an M39 mount lens. I want a rangefinder body that is: - Fully mechanical with no meter. I prefer clarity with Sunny 16. - Reliable, and serviceable by a technician (Any recommendations welcomed!) - Swing back door as this makes film loading easier. - A film winding lever instead of one of those knobs I've seen. I don't want to break my wallet and get a Leica, so that's off the table. I've heard that Russian rangefinder copies are unpredictable when it comes to quality/experience. Has anyone had any experience with Japanese copies of the Leicas? Maybe a Canon P or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 There are lots - I used both Nikon and Canon years ago, very good. Have never had the east block cameras, but many here have deep experience with them. Just a quick search or two. Lots of choices. Good Luck! Nikon Rangefinder Film Cameras for sale | eBay Canon Rangefinder Film Cameras for sale | eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Russian rangefinder copies are unpredictable when it comes to quality/experience. For that matter, any old camera has that potential. I'd personally recommend a FED-2 report at FED-2 - ФЕД-2 in Soviet red, even 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsmith14 Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 Of course there are always those perpetual thrillers, the transmogrified Zorkis -- this one is a "Swedish Army" (3 crowns on the back) Leica in gold and rosewood, with its Elmo lens :rolleyes: [ATTACH=full]1367948[/ATTACH] That's a looker for sure! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Of course there are always those perpetual thrillers, the transmogrified Zorkis -- this one is a "Swedish Army" (3 crowns on the back) Leica in gold and rosewood, with its Elmo lens :rolleyes: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJG Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Be aware that otherwise excellent Russian LTM mount lenses sometimes have issues with spacing and camera body depth. Your Jupiter may be fine on a FED or Zorki but have issues on another body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_h Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) I am not sure when the transition to opening back and lever winding was done, but the Canon P is a popular, and fairly available, such model. The earlier Canon rangefinders are very close clones of Leica. My father had a story when I was young, about a Leica with a screw that doens't do anything, and a Canon clone with the same screw. But the later ones, Canon added many of their own innovations. The P has a stainless steel shutter, instead of cloth for many earlier models. I am not sure that the rangefinder calibration is the same for Soviet and other M39 lenses. As well as I know, the P is fairly easy to change the calibration. If you only have one lens, that should be fine. The Soviet cameras are, as well as I know, more difficult to change. You take the lens off for each adjustment step. Canon: Canon P chrome Price Guide: estimate a camera value says about $100 for body only, about $200 with lens. Edited December 13, 2020 by glen_h 1 -- glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_gallimore1 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Strictly speaking, the correct body to use with a Jupiter 8 lens is a Zorki or FED. Without getting too technical, the rangefinder mechanism and the lens are calibrated to a slightly different standard than that used by Leica and the Japanese manufacturers, so the lens won't focus correctly on anything but a soviet body without adjustment. The Zorki 4 is a good, serviceable body, commonly available and fairly well specified. My personal favourite is my Zorki 3m, but they are rather rare in comparison. The soviet cameras are perfectly capable, as with any ~60 year old camera, you want to get one that has been serviced if possible. Plenty available from the usual places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_gallimore1 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Should add, my Jupiter 8 will not screw on to my Canon 7 body without binding, the threads are different. Leica LTM is 39mm with a Whitworth thread pitch of 0.977mm. Soviet m39 is 39mm with a metric 1mm pitch (literally M39). Close enough that they will fit if forced, but not quite the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_h Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Strictly speaking, the correct body to use with a Jupiter 8 lens is a Zorki or FED. Without getting too technical, the rangefinder mechanism and the lens are calibrated to a slightly different standard than that used by Leica and the Japanese manufacturers, so the lens won't focus correctly on anything but a soviet body without adjustment. (snip) That assumes that the camera rangefinder is properly calibrated. As well as I know, doing that it much harder than for the Canon P. I have a Zorki 5 which I haven't bothered to calibrate, and is far off. As I understand it, running the shutter without a lens can change the calibration, and I did that when I first got it, to see if it worked. I also have a Fed, which I haven't checked yet. Maybe I should do that. I suspect that recalibrating the Canon P three times is easier than the Zorki once. (As well as I know, some calibration steps include moving the cam that follows the back of the lens, which means remove the lens each time it is changed.) But yes, the proper camera to use with a Jupiter is a Soviet model. But the OP wants open back and lever wind, and otherwise to take good pictures. -- glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 so the lens won't focus correctly on anything but a soviet body without adjustment. This has not been my experience. It would be truer to say there may be some problems, but my own LTM Soviets and Japanese lenses work fine on other LTM bodies. My Canon VL2 has worked with a wide range of Soviet LTM lenses and there are posts here demonstrating that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_gallimore1 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 But the OP wants open back and lever wind, and otherwise to take good pictures. Zorki 4k Takes perfectly good pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen_S Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Swing back door Zorki 4k Has a removable back / base plate unit. Shutter speeds aren't that nice to set and where are the European repair techs for it? - Mine would need one. Nikon RFs? - Aren't those utilizing the Contax mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_h Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 OK, the Canon VL, VL2, P, VI-L all have lever wind and opening back. Also, all have metal shutter, though maybe not the same one. The rangefinders look the same, too. Even though I haven't done it, the circle window rotates to change one direction. The screw next to the rectangle window removes, and behind it is the screw for the other direction. No need to remove the lens. The VL and VL2 have the two shutter speed knobs, the VI and P have one. 1 -- glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsmith14 Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 Thank you all for the replies. They have been very helpful! I think I'm going to go with the Canon P, since I like how simple it is. Does anyone know of any technicians who still service Canon P bodies? I called Youxin Ye, and he told me that he no longer services these cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_h Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 The earlier Canons are very much like Leica, and last I knew he still did them. The later ones, with opening back and winding lever, along with metal shutter, are somewhat different. But also, they tend to work a long time without work done on them. -- glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_gallimore1 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Has a removable back / base plate unit. Shutter speeds aren't that nice to set and where are the European repair techs for it? - Mine would need one. I took opening back to simply mean 'not bottom loading', in my experience removable is as easy to load as swing open and easier to light seal, if the OP really wants swing open only, I apologise. Repair tech? Send it to Oleg: OKVintageCamera Or better still, buy one from him already serviced (my Zorki 3m came from Oleg and works well). Shutter speeds? No worse than a Leica, at least they're all on the same dial. Anyway, it's the OP's choice and money. I think I'm going to go with the Canon P, since I like how simple it is. It's a nice camera, I currently have a Canon 7. See here for info on the differences between m39 and LTM lenses and how you'll need to modify the lens to work correctly on the Canon: Leica - Why a Russian Lens needs to be adjusted for a Leica- the focal length is built to the Zeiss Standard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 +1 to a Zorki 4 It's the camera the lens probably came from. They're built crudely but robustly, and are just as likely to work as any mechanical camera that's decades old. In fact the Zorkis were still being made long after Canon had abandoned the rangefinder market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 There are lots - I used both Nikon and Canon years ago, very good. Have never had the east block cameras, but many here have deep experience with them. Just a quick search or two. Lots of choices. Good Luck! Nikon Rangefinder Film Cameras for sale | eBay Canon Rangefinder Film Cameras for sale | eBay Do these cameras take 39mm LTM lenses? Besides the Nikon rangefinder prices are higher than a Leica IIIf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
za33photo Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Hello johnsmith14, I use a Zorki 4 with a Jupiter 8 , and find it to be perfectly satisfactory. The spacing on the Jupiter 8 can be problematic on other Range Finder bodies and will perhaps require adjustment , there have been some reports that the threads on the Jupiter 8 are not fully compatible with Non-Russian bodies , as has been stated above. I hope this helps. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 The focusing cams have slight design differences on cameras designed for Leica LTM lenses and the FSU lenses. A lot has been written about this over the years. FSU lenses may need shimming to work properly over the focusing range on Leica/Canon bodies. Some people say just use f/8 or better to get the benefits of depth of field. No so sure about this. I personally think that the solution is to use FSU lenses on the bodies designed for them...the FED/Zorkis. No sense trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am surprised that Youxin Ye no longer works on Canon P bodies, he CLA'd mine about 2-3 years ago and got it back to smoooth operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsmith14 Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 You guys have convinced me to drop the Canon P (and, well, the price of Soviet rangefinders are just so cheap). I ordered a Fed-2 from Oleg! Any advice for a newcomer to rangefinders, particularly Russian ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_gallimore1 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Any advice for a newcomer to rangefinders, particularly Russian ones? Always wind the camera before changing shutter speeds! Other than that, which is a general rule for all cameras with a Leica style shutter, the FED-2 is about as straightforward as it gets, wind, set shutter and/or aperture, focus and frame, shoot. You'll need some kind of light meter or follow the sunny-16 rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_h Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Check the rangefinder calibration. Mostly that it agrees with the numbers on the lens. It might not be bad to do an actual test with lens targets, bracketing the right focal distance. -- glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I always do a focus test with a newly acquired rangefinder..both at a near distance (4-5 ft) and an infinity test (1km or the moon). Usually everything is calibrated ok, but sometimes it may need a tweak. So, I also suggest looking online and finding out how to calibrate the focus for your camera. Generally, there is a screw which adjusts the horizontal and a separate one for vertical viewfinder alignment. If everything is ok in the rangefinder/viewfinder, do a sacrificial roll of film before shooting anything of importance to make sure what you see in focus in the rangefinder is indeed in focus at the film plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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