What went wrong? Velvia 100

So I posted this on another forum and never really got an answer, so I thought I'd see what folks here have to say.

 

Last weekend I shot a couple rolls of Velvia 100 that I had pushed to 400 ISO. After developing the film, everything that should be solid black came out with this horrible green tint. I'm thinking that maybe the film was fogged before I shot it? I'd appreciate some input as to what you think went wrong.

 

Here's what I know:

 

1) It wasn't a problem with my chemistry. I developed another roll after this that was shot at box speed and it came out fine.

 

2) Processed in Unicolor Rapid E-6 kit. First developer 11 minutes @ 105 f (Unicolor specifies 10.5 minutes for a two stop push, I added 30 seconds extra to account for 4% extra time to be added for each roll processed in the chemistry).

 

3) Expiration date of the film was 2017, but it had been freezer stored.

 

4) I don't remember where I bought it, I did buy some film on eBay a while back. Maybe it was fogged and the seller either didn't know or wasn't honest?

 

 

 

It was suggested that I try re-blixing the film, which I tried but it had no affect one way or the other.

 

I also shot a partial roll as a test strip under the same conditions and processed the same way. It came out just fine.

 

Thoughts please?

Edited November 24, 2020 by FPapp

I also shot a partial roll as a test strip under the same conditions and processed the same way. It came out just fine.

 

Was this test strip also exposed at 400 ISO ?

 

400 underexposes a 100 film and normal developing won't make it right.

Was this test strip also exposed at 400 ISO ?

 

400 underexposes a 100 film and normal developing won't make it right.

 

Yes, test strip was pushed to ISO 400 and given 11 minutes in first developer @ 105 f., same as rolls that didn't turn out. Unicolor E-6 kit specifies 6.5 minutes in 1st developer when shot at box speed, 10.5 minutes for two stop push.

Velvia 100 that I had pushed to 400 ISO.

You get nothing for nothing!

 

Film manufacturers really do know what they're talking about you know, when they print 100 ISO in big letters on the box.

 

Unicolor, OTOH......

I developed another roll after this that was shot at box speed and it came out fine.

QED.

You get nothing for nothing!

 

Film manufacturers really do know what they're talking about you know, when they print 100 ISO in big letters on the box.

 

Unicolor, OTOH......

 

QED.

 

Huh? What are you trying to say???

Huh? What are you trying to say???

RTFM!

 

Part of the problem may be with BLIX in principle. BLIX is a combination of two competing chemical processes, bleach which oxidizes remaining silver, and fixer which removes the resulting silver salt. It was designed to accommodate news gathering for rapid results with low quality standards. After developing dozens of rolls, I found that BLIX neither bleached nor fixed with consistency. Residual silver (or salts) have an adverse effect on scanning

RTFM!

 

Part of the problem may be with BLIX in principle. BLIX is a combination of two competing chemical processes, bleach which oxidizes remaining silver, and fixer which removes the resulting silver salt. It was designed to accommodate news gathering for rapid results with low quality standards. After developing dozens of rolls, I found that BLIX neither bleached nor fixed with consistency. Residual silver (or salts) have an adverse effect on scanning

 

I'm not aware of an E-6 kit (or C-41) that has separate bleach and fix. So what do you suggest?

 

Any thoughts on went went wrong with my film above, especially when I processed another roll right after that was fine?

The film looks badly underexposed. The probably cause is that you exposed that roll at ISO 400, and the successful roll at ISO 100.

 

Two stops boost would be a lot for B&W film, much less color, especially when each color layer behaves differently once you step outside the normal boundaries.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Ed_Ingold

Huh? What are you trying to say???

That 'pushing' any film is no more than over developing and underexposing it.

 

'Pushing' does not increase the sensitivity of a film to light in any measurable way. All it does is increase contrast, and in this case has increased the fog level of the green-sensitive layer(s) - resulting in green shadows.

 

If you want decent colour reproduction, then you need to stick to the box speed of the film.

The film looks badly underexposed. The probably cause is that you exposed that roll at ISO 400, and the successful roll at ISO 100.

 

Two stops boost would be a lot for B&W film, much less color, especially when each color layer behaves differently once you step outside the normal boundaries.

 

This is my test strip which was shot at ISO 400 and processed with the same chemistry, same time and temperature as the rolls that didn't turn out. As you can see this test strip turned out more or less normal. No green tint in the picture or on the edges by the sprocket holes.

 

 

Scanner software attempts to adjust the exposure in software, based on the entire image, including borders. This may impart an off tone in the dark areas. Velvia tends to be green. As a rule, consumer-level scanners can't change the light level nor exposure time.

 

These images are still grossly underexposed, just not green.

The film looks badly underexposed. The probably cause is that you exposed that roll at ISO 400, and the successful roll at ISO 100.

 

Two stops boost would be a lot for B&W film, much less color, especially when each color layer behaves differently once you step outside the normal boundaries.

A two stop boost is easy with both color and b&w. Tri and HP5 at 1600 is easy. I have often pushed Astia 100F to 400 iso with no issues at all. Not a lot at all.

You might share your secrets with FPapp. I can "push" my Sony A7Riii to ISO 25600 and get newsworthy quality. It goes much higher. In another life, Velvia 50 worked just fine at ISO 50.

You might share your secrets with FPapp. I can "push" my Sony A7Riii to ISO 25600 and get newsworthy quality. It goes much higher. In another life, Velvia 50 worked just fine at ISO 50.

Pushing film rating in processing is no secret. Your digicam is irrelevant to the discussion. Pushing film is easy.

I've done my share of pushing film, although black and white, out of necessity for shooting events which were not disposed to flash. If it were as easy as ou say, why not share with the OP, even post some examples.

 

On the other hand, pushing film is irelevant in the digital age.

On the other hand, pushing film is irelevant in the digital age.

Unless you still like to shoot film sometimes like I do.

 

It's obvious I'm not going to get much help here with troubleshooting my issue unless Dave Luttman has something to offer.

I guess I'll ask elsewhere!

I don't have a problem with people who do things because they enjoy it. Film will work just fine if you use it as intended. You don't have to look very hard to find 400 speed film. Get the basics down pat before you venture into unknown territory. Considering the tight time and temperature requirements for reversal film, you may find that enough of a challenge.

 

BLIX is popular because it can be shipped without a hazardous material label. The culprit is bleach, which is a potassium ferrocyanide solution, which plays hell with aluminum trucks and airplanes if spilled. The dry oxidant can be shipped without special handling, and you can mix your own bleach with a few other chemicals, including potassium bromide. That done, you can fix the film with ordinary Kodak Rapid Fixer

 

You might have more success pushing or pulling negative color film. That said, I find missing the ideal exposure by 1/2 stop has a significant effect on the color balance and gamma.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Ed_Ingold

Pushing of color reversal films is a little different from black and white or color negative films.

 

Color reversal films usually push pretty well, though usually the faster films.

ISO 400 films push well to 800 or 1600, slower films not so well.

 

There are some that are designed for pushing. Note that E6 uses the same time for

all films, unlike black and white were faster films often need longer developing.

 

I have found that older Ektachrome, even not pushed, gives a pinkish look

for the black areas.

 

Also, even when pushing works well, it works best with the freshest developer.

Probably best to push as the first film in the chemistry. And probably one fewer

roll than rated capacity for the first developer.

 

Reminder that the image you see in reversal films is the part that was not

developed in the first developer.

 

It might be that everything added up. Slightly old film, even though kept frozen.

Slow films don't push as well, and already used once developers.