Tripods & Heads- Upgrading

Hi guys.

Been looking at up-market tripods and see now there’s plenty of discussion to read through here. Was thinking Manfrotto 057 amd/or Gitzo GT2542. The former being about twice as heavy as the latter so there’s that “mass” thing covered (as seen discussed elsewhere here in Accessories).

 

I guess it comes down to Gitzo’s seemingly difficult twist locks and also possibly their hard to sort mast mounts? (Reading reviews)

vs added weight and flip-locks. I guess I need to read more reviews/test/opinions.

 

BUT also looking at heads, I see Gitzo has a really lovely fluid 3 way head, their GHF3W.

 

Was also looking into a Berlebach 653- a geared 3 way head that also seems quite nice.

 

3-Wege-Neiger Mod. 653 from Berlebach ® Tripods

 

I find myself wondering about the difference between fluid & geared?

 

 

 

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

oh FWIW I have a very inexpensive tripod ive used pretty extensively with a cheap ball head. The whole thing is quite light weight and folds down to something like 19”- ive traveled overseas with it already BUT I’m finding I want an upgrade, top flight tripod with a high end head for shooting in situations where I either don’t have to carry the trippod/head very far or not at all.

 

I will read thru the various tripod threads already in progress; experience, opinions or links to stuff is OK but mostly I want to discuss heads here.

Cheers.

Twist locks will keep working for ever. Flip locks not so.

Twist locks will keep working for ever.

Or until their rubber grips perish. This has happened on a couple of Gitzos after quite a few years use. My solution was to cut strips of sheet neoprene rubber and glue them around the twist lock collar with contact adhesive. The rubber I chose is about twice as thick as the original, quite flimsy, grip rings.

 

I've also had to replace a couple of flip-lock levers on a Manfrotto. The spares were reasonably priced and easy to fit.

 

I prefer the operation of the flip-locks, since tightening or unscrewing a screw lock depends on how tight the thicker tripod sections are screwed up. If the thicker section is too loose the entire lower leg section will just rotate, rather than the twist-lock turn. Conversely it's possible to over-tighten the twist locks to the point that they're near-impossible to undo - especially if the tripod undergoes a temperature change and everything shrinks.

 

Personally, I'd go with lever-locks.

Edited October 15, 2020 by rodeo_joe|1

Geared head: intended for precision movement; think about cranking a gun around. Fluid heads are meant for smooth panning in videography and technically relatives of shock absorbers. - Do you need such stuff? I'd be content with solidly locking quality.

Excuse me; how are you planning to commute to your subjects? I own big Manfrotto & Linhof tripods, they seem OK to weigh sidecars down but are quite a nightmare on a solo bike.

Are you really planning a Gitzo series 2 for your Hasselblad? - Maybe Ed Ingold will jump in and recommend Series 3?

 

Take a chance to handle a top of the line ball head before you buy anything 3 way.

Did some reading about gear/fluid heads.I'm not certain I actually need any such as I don't really shoot video. As for "getting to" the shoot, typically when traveling to a remote or location I carry too much gear to go by motorcycle. My lightweight, inexpensive tripod works well enough for any sort of travel anyway (and I have carried in in a saddlebag already).

 

I was sort of steering away from ball heads simply because the inexpensive one I have seems to leave plenty to be desired- but will definitely look at high end ball heads!

Thanks @jochen!

 

Think I see a trip to NYC/B&H in my not too distant future.

I have a Manfrotto 405 gear head that I use in my studio on Manfrotto 475 B legs. It will hold anything up to a 12 lb.4x5 Toyo 45G with ease and micro adjustments are easy and precise, but it wouldn't be my first choice for travel because of the size and weight (14 lbs. or so). For more portability I also have a fairly ancient Manfrotto 055 B with either a Manfrotto ball head or small fluid head that i used a lot when I was shooting theater dress rehearsals with an 80-200 f/2.8 zoom. I'm with Rodeo Joe on flip locks versus twist locks--I've seen several Gitzos with frozen twist locks and in 30+ years of Manfrotto flip locks I've only had to replace two levers, which were readily available. If you can afford good carbon fiber it will certainly save weight and provide good support, but I have never bought one since I couldn't justify the higher cost for the ways that I use tripods.

A decent fluid head with adjustable tension will allow you to "park" the camera in position without actually locking it down. Depending on what you're shooting this can be a great convenience, but once again size, weight and expense will increase.

Edited October 15, 2020 by AJG

The Gitzo GT2542 leg sections are keyed so they don't rotate when the (G-Loc) collars are tightened. It's 1/4 turn on or off. Furthermore the tapered bushings jam in place and stay tight even if the collars are loosened a little. The bushings are keyed to the collars, and are forcibly extracted if you turn a little bit more. You can order a full set of collars from Manfrotto for about $25, or glue pieces of bicycle tubes to the old ones like RodeoJoe (just joking). Slipping or split rubber grips can be repaired with contact cement.

 

Load limits for tripods and heads are largely based on the holding power of their locks. Gitzo collars will hold 2-3x as much weight as a flip lock, and leave no openings for dirt entry. Unlike latches, the collars are self-adjusting.

 

There's a head for every purpose, and a purpose for every head.

• Ball heads are the most popular. They can move freely to any angle and lock down with a single knob. In general, the larger the ball the smoother the action. The most common fail is slip-stick action, which makes fine positioning difficult. The most serious fail is not holding the load when off-vertical. The best ball heads generally use Arca type plates and clamps, which are the most secure and very compact on the camera.
  
• Three-Way heads are the least expensive. They are flexible in use, but prone to slip-stick action. The handles jab you when carried and don't fit well in cases. Quick release mechanisms are weak compared to Arca clamps, and require proprietary and often bulky plates.
  
• Geared heads are designed for precision work. They are commonly used for view cameras, but highly effective for macro work, especially with longer lenses. Most have a quick positioning system with the gears disengaged. Nonetheless hey are much slower in use than other types of heads. Unlike most other heads, there is no spring back, since you adjust the head without touching the camera. Big video rigs can easily exceed 75 pounds, and generally use geared heads with hand wheels.
  
• Gimbal heads support the camera or lens on a cantilevered arm. They are the quickest head to use for action and wildlife, especially at high angles. Some have fluid dampening and most will lock in position if the load is well balanced.
  
• Fluid heads offer very smooth action in two axes. Most do not have a sideways tilt, so you must use a leveling platform of some sort between the head and tripod. For best stability, you must balance the load on the head with a fore-aft adjustment. There is virtually no spring back, since you manipulate the head not the camera. Some spring back occurs with long lenses and stiffer drag settings, which is easily managed by holding the handle still. It is very easy to track action with a fluid head. Since the head is first leveled, it is also very easy to do stitched panoramas. Tilt and pan adjustments are independent, and also lock separately. Better heads have a spring counterbalance system, so you can tilt the camera to any angle and it will stay there.
   
  Most fluid heads are actually friction heads with variable spring tension on a teflon or greased washer. True fluid heads have fixed and mobile interleaving plates, which adjust the meshed area without tension, using viscosity of an oil bath for drag. Drag is adjusted by changing the area of the overlap. Better heads also use roller bearings for the pivots, rather than bushings which wear loose after a couple of years. This technology is expensive, and used only with studio or cinematic cameras and/or long lenses. That said, you don't need to spend a fortune for occasional use. A Manfrotto Nitrotech head works nearly as well as heads costing four times as much (for a couple of years, anyway).
  

I know a lot about the fluid heads because I shoot video professionally, several times a week, and "recycle" the heads for still photography as needed. I have resolved to take a tripod with two heads on my next photo vacation: a small ball head (RRS BH-40) for schlepping, and an RRS fluid head for landscapes and general use. Stick-and-rudder guys would appreciate the technique for smooth panning and tilting. You apply pressure to the stick, rather than grabbing and moving it. The fluid head does the work.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in- your comments are super helpful and I appreciate it. Ed your run-down on head types is great! To get this out of the way, I was looking at the Gitzo GT2542 tripod.

 

I was looking at high end ball heads today.

Everyone talks about the Arca Swiss plates so I thought, why not an Arca Swiss head? Turns out they make some super nice ball heads. For a super nice price, I'm sure.

Next in line was Gitzo, I guess their high end stuff is also quite nice. Berlebach has a number of heads that appear nicely built and machined. I'm basically interested in a high end, well machined, precision head. I can see paying 300, 400 or 500 dollars for a top of the line head. A good friend is a professional photographer in a major east coast city and one of the studios he shoots in regularly has a bunch of Manfrotto heads and tripods. These must not be top-end, I'm guessing- because he remains unimpressed by them.

 

My cameras (currently) are (2) 35mm and my Hasselblad 500cm. The biggest lens I have for the 'blad is their 250mm. I imagine myself with a 4x5 or 6x9 view camera at some point in the future, distant or otherwise. My point is that I don't need to support a huge amount of weight, but I want something that'll be stable and predictable in an outdoor setting- as a lot of what I shoot (or like to shoot) happens outside. Sometimes I shoot moving objects (vintage cars and/or bikes drag racing) so I MIGHT occasionally pan- I have done so just holding a camera; although it's not ideal, I'll no doubt do it again or at least find myself in a. situation where I'll int to pan to track somewhat quickly moving objects. Also, if and/or when I ever make any effort to shoot in any sort of studio setting (or anything similar) then I want to be set up for that. I wouldn't mind being able to attain some height, even if I need a stepping stool or small ladder to set up a shot.

 

This new tripod/head purchase I see as a one-time purchase. I'm not likely to do a bunch of research to find something that I am then not happy with. I'd rather just buy the best possible (reasonable) set-up and get it over with. After looking around, I see no reason why I couldn't get a darn nice set-up for 1500.00 or maybe a little less. Judging from what I'm seeing perhaps 1100.00 to 1500.00 is roughly the middle-ish of the range of possibilities?

I have an Arca B1 head, among others. The B1 had been updated, but it's unique feature is the same knob for setting tension and locking the position. It applies friction gradually, so that you position the camera without completely loosening the ball. The ball itself is flattened, so that tension increases as it is tilted further from the vertical position. The B1 was also prone to jamming. It took a good whack with your hand on the top of the platform to restore normal function.

 

I also have several Gitzo heads, which proved to be better paper weights than useful tools. They are not passable as fluid heads, and their holding power is weak.

 

I strongly recommend Really Right Stuff ball heads. They are precisely machined from aluminum bar stock, and lock. up tightly without shifting position. I currently have a BH-55 and BH-40. The 55 is a tank, and can hold a 12 pound Arca view camera pointing straight down (or up). The BH-40 is half the weight and an inch shorter, and does everything I need for still photography (Hasselblad, Nikon and Sony). The 55 and 40 have useable tension controls, but not up to Arca standards. That said, they do not, cannot jam. The clamp is a precision split collar, with none of the complicated levers and springs inside the Arca B1.

 

Acratech makes a very good ball head, inexpensive and strong. However you have to turn it around to point upward or downward more than a slight amount, depending on which way the collar is oriented. Kirk makes ball heads similar to the Arca. Arca-style plates and clamps are not always interchangeable.

 

If you're willing to pay that kind of money for one good tripod, I recommend a Gitzo GT354x "Systematic.". They are much stiffer than the #2 series Gitzos but not that much heavier. The entire center section is interchangeable (mine have a leveling platform or video bowl). The 4-section version collapses short enough to fit in a checked 24" suitcase. The cost difference is nominal. RRS has tripods very similar to Gitzo, except the metal parts are machined rather than cast. RRS uses larger tubing with thinner walls for the same strength and lighter weight. They are somewhat more expensive than Gitzo, but reasonably close. Benro also makes inexpensive Gitzo knock-off copies. Early on, Benro legs tended to come unglued from their fittings. I haven't heard recent complaints.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Ed_Ingold

One thing i experienced with geared heads is that all the ones i know have play. They would be nice if they didn't.

They are also quite tall.

I have a half-dozen or so tripods, ranging from cheap, light-weight ones to my "iron boy" tripod (it's VERY steady). Each has its use and failings.

 

Trying to choose a tripod for someone else is like choosing a spouse for them....

 

I have found adequate height for comfortable use to be a critical criterion for myself. YMMV

Gitzo GT3543XLS Systematic Series 3 Carbon Fiber Tripod (Extra Long)

 

I use this tripod for video. It's 79" tall without a column, so people can walk in front of it without blocking the lens.. I carry a stepladder so I can mount and level the camera.

 

LOL about choosing a spouse for someone (although that's common practice in half of the world). There are three basic factors in choosing a tripod: cost, weight, and sturdiness. Pick any two.

 

The longest lens you use governs how sturdy the tripod should be, especially if it's used outdoors. Weight limits are seldom a factor, at least among serious tripods (beyond department store varieties). Height is important, balanced against portability. The viewfinder will add at least 4" to the effective height. Shooting birds and air shows requires more height than landscapes, because you spend more time pointing upwards. A viewfinder at eye level becomes. useless if you point downward more than a few degrees.

 

No one tripod or head will fill all needs. Be happy if you have an 80% solution. At least I still have more unused camera bags than tripods.

Yes. My experience using Gitzo heads, for instance, is quite different fom Ed's reported experience. The Rationelle heads from #3 upwards are solid as a rock, and work good.

 

I have ball heads, large and small, and do not like them much. One screw releases movement in all directions. Not good for precise positioning of anything that has any significant weight. Many have an adjustable friction, that is supposed to hold things when the lock is released. It either does, and then acts as a duplicate and superfluous locking screw. Or it does not and is of very little use.

Something many locking screws do is move the thing they are supposed to lock in position when being tightened. That is a nuisance when it is the lock of one of the three directions of a 3d head. Rather bad when one such things is supposed to lock all directions, as on ball heads.

Edited October 16, 2020 by q.g._de_bakker

I use Linhof Profil II & ii ball heads. Great quality, very robust, great prices used.

Benro also makes inexpensive Gitzo knock-off copies. Early on, Benro legs tended to come unglued from their fittings. I haven't heard recent complaints.

For "Gitzo copies" look for Induro rather than Benro. Both companies belong to the same group (MAC), with Induro being the up-scale brand. Quite like Gitzo/Manfrotto that also belong to the same group (Vitec). I own two Induros and one Gitzo.

 

I second the suggestion for Acratech ballheads; I own two. If I were to purchase a ballhead now, I would look at the FlexShooter Pro for its flexibility (it would replace my ballheads and gimbal head with a single one); its features may, however, not be of significance to the OP.

The Gitzo Rationelle head is a 3-way head designed for larger cameras. It has a large platform but no QR (unless you bolt something on). A head with QR is much friendlier, especially if it is Arca-compatible. Acratech heads are strong and relatively inexpensive. However the need to turn the head 180 degrees if you need to point both up and down in one session is a PITA. The larger the ball, the better the holding power and usually the smoother the action.

The thing with heads that come with an integral QR thing is that that particular QR thing may not be the one you need or want. I also have a number of heads with built-in QR systems.

 

One type is a geared head with a rather large QR plate that i am not going to attach to any camera as a permanent fixture. So no QR despite that built-in thing. If QR in combination with that head, it is via a separate, extra QR system. The head is large, so used for large and heavy (view) cameras. (QR for such cameras? Can anyone imagine why we would want that?) And then, instead of having the heavy camera attached directly to the head, it first has to be attached to that plate, which is then attached in QR style (i.e. not as fixed as when screwed on directly) to the head itself. Is that really what we want? I am not using that head a lot.

 

Other heads with QR built-in have a small Manfrotto or Manfrotto style QR, and i do have the fitting camera foot attached to the cameras i use on those. Works fine. But i do carry a spare foot, in case another camera 'comes along' that also needs to sit on that tripod and head.

 

On heads that do not come with a QR-system built-in, i attach whatever is needed to use the camera's own QR foot, or simply screw the camera on. The most universal option.

It is nice to have a QR system. But personally, i do not see it as an advantage when a particular head has one. The most universally useable head is one that allows you to attach whatever QR system you like or need.

Edited October 16, 2020 by q.g._de_bakker

I happen to rather like QR plates, or at least the Arca-Swiss system, which I consider a defacto standard. Other proprietary ones, like the half dozen Manfrotto varieties, not so much.

 

The A-S type coupling is amazingly secure, and high quality plates are essentially a custom fit to most any recent camera. It's especially nice when you have something like a Kirk foot on your long lenses that fits directly into your A-S head-that set-up is more secure than any screw connection I've ever used.

 

I don't put anything bigger than a Hasselblad on top of my A-S B1, and for things like my monorail and my Pentax 67, I use one of a couple of different big tripods without QR systems, including a Tiltall and a couple of massive and heavy aluminum and wood tripods. For 35mm and Hasselblad use, though, my Manfrotto CF and AS B-1 head are the go-to solution, though. It works for me for those, and again with a lens with a tripod foot or even with a a proper RRS or Kirk fitted plate the camera feels more securely mounted to me than it ever has with just a screw in the tripod head. The allen screw in those fits tighter than I've ever been able to hand screw a tripod in, and they fit the camera virtually exactly to keep it from rotating.

I have long standardized on Arca-type QR for nearly twenty years, particularly the Really Right Stuff variety. There are no castings or plastic parts; everything is machined from the block. The plates are small enough to remain on the camera, even L-plates for centered vertical shots. I would order an L-plate the same time as I ordered a new camera.

 

Since getting heavily into video, I get multi-purpose use out of tripods by attaching various heads by means of a plates and a clamp. One of my better fluid heads has a integral Arca clamp parallel to the lens axis. That's ideal for smaller video cameras, hybrid cameras in rigs, and long lenses with a tripod foot. I use a small sliding plate with a built-in lateral arca clamp for digital cameras with an Arca base plate. I even have a small (105 mm) telescope and clock drive, all fitted with Arca plates.

 

If you use plates and clamps by the same manufacturer, you can use lever clamps for convenience and security*. If you mix brands, it's better to use screw type clamps. A few thousands of an inch make the difference between safety and disaster.

 

Speaking of video, cameras in rigs and cinematic cameras tend to be heavy and awkward. The trend in heads is to allow "side" entry QR, which means you center the camera from one side and snap it down to lock. Try threading a v-plate from the end with a 15+ pound camera held over your head.

 

* It's easy to clamp on the edge of a plate with a screw clamp, before it is fully seated. It feels tight, but is easily dislodged. That condition is impossible with a lever clamp, If you can close the clamp, the plate is either fully engaged or completely loose.

Thanks guys, lots to digest here. I like the RRS equipment, & made in USA is a bonus.

Question:

Is it possible to "open" up a geared head to free-wheel/pan it side to side, or is every motion strictly controlled by the gearing?

The geared heads i know all have a release that allows rapid setting. Not always very comfortable. But it works.

I have long standardized on Arca-type QR for nearly twenty years, particularly the Really Right Stuff variety. There are no castings or plastic parts; everything is machined from the block. The plates are small enough to remain on the camera, even L-plates for centered vertical shots. I would order an L-plate the same time as I ordered a new camera.

 

To be honest, I've never known someone who has used the A-S system who hasn't taken a liking to it. It's one of those things that was well thought out and right from the start.

 

Some of the Manfrotto QRs are massive things that I wouldn't want to leave attached to the camera longer than necessary. A fitted Kirk or RRS plate(I have both, although like RRS a bit better) does not really affect how I handle the camera, so like you I have them on all of my regularly used cameras. Even the generic plates I have are fairly slim and unobtrusive.

 

I tend toward screw clamps because I have a bit of a mix of plates. Of course, on my main head- the B1-I don't think I have an option. For fitted plates, I still sometimes hop between Kirk and RRS since one will sometimes make one for an application that the other doesn't. IIRC, their dimensions are a BIT different-nothing that the screw clamp can't handle, but enough that I think a lever would be annoying for secure coupling. I haven't looked to see if RRS does the long lens feet, but the Kirk ones were a life-changer for me when I first tried them. I have never seen a more secure tripod-lens mounting than using those.

Thanks guys, lots to digest here. I like the RRS equipment, & made in USA is a bonus.

Question:

Is it possible to "open" up a geared head to free-wheel/pan it side to side, or is every motion strictly controlled by the gearing?

My Manfrotto 405 head does allow you to adjust gross positioning for pan/tilt but it isn't a particularly smooth movement. It isn't at all like loosening a pan lock on a 3 way head and moving the camera from side to side. For its intended purpose (rough positioning) it works fine, but this is really a specialized studio head, not a general purpose tripod head. If you're not doing studio product work I wouldn't recommend it, but if you are it is a functional and time saving piece of equipment.