Slow film BUT....

Hi guys. I want to shoot some of Lomography's latest slow films- ISO 8 & 13. BUT my R3m only goes as low as setting for ISO 25.

What to do?

Gotta check my Praktica LTL to see how low it goes, also, maybe.

Hand held meter?

Math?!? - How hard might it be to overexpose 1 f-stop for an ISO 13 or 1.66 stops(?) for ISO 8? - I could probably count 3 clicks on a Zeiss aperture ring; 5 would be too far for my taste. - YMMV.

First of all, of course: Have fun! But what are you expecting from those films? Are you planning to shoot waterfalls without an ND filter? Do you get bright enough days and wide enough apertures to shoot your camera hand held & unshaken?

Most cameras have an exposure compensation dial. +1 on that dial effectively reduces your ISO from 25 to 12.5.

But, more to the point, why would anyone want to mess about with 8 ISO film? Its not as if it gets you much better resolution than T-max 100, and it's probably a copying or microfilm emulsion that's only blue sensitive and has a poor anti-halation layer, or none at all.

For slow film and a manual camera there is no problem shooting slow film. The meter can obviously meter the light level that you are going to need. Just make the manual compensation.

The reverse is not true that when you shoot very fast film and your meter can't measure very low light level you would want to shoot the fast film with.

No need for any maths. The Cosina R3m has red LED +/- exposure indicators at half-stop intervals in the viewfinder apparently. So for 13 ISO film you set 25 ISO on the dial and use the +1 LED indicator.

For 8 ISO you'd set 32 ISO and use the +2 stop indicator.

Most cameras have an exposure compensation dial. +1 on that dial effectively reduces your ISO from 25 to 12.5.

Are Pentax the only ones, where that wheel doesn't move into both directions at the ends of the ISO range?

Are Pentax the only ones, where that wheel doesn't move into both directions at the ends of the ISO range?

No, Konica FS-1 for certain, but I'm sure there are many more.

EV compensation is (on electromechanical film cameras) often implemented by mechanically coupling the EV comp dial to the ISO selection dial, either internally or, as in the case of the FS-1, very obviously externally. So, when you select +1 comp, you're actually (as far as the mechanical workings of the camera are concerned) just selecting ISO 50 as opposed to ISO 100. If you were already at the end of the metering range, then there may be no more movement available. Essentially, this is just a more convenient solution to moving the ISO dial one stop, which is what we did before, with the risk of later forgetting what film you had loaded.

As already stated above, this is all pretty irrelevant anyway. The light meter just gives an EV value, so meter at whatever ISO suits you, then adjust either shutter or aperture by the correct number of stops to match the actual film speed.

Obviously, this prevents you from using auto exposure, but with such slow film, you're likely to be using a tripod, so you'll be operating more slowly anyway.

Thanks guys. I don't use auto anyway so no worries.

Set the camera's meter at some multiple. For ISO 13 set the meter at 25 ISO. Take your reading and then open up one f-stop or show the shutter one click. That technique will do the trick.

Thank you! Appreciate the advice.

The Babylon 13 film is a beautiful film. I used HC110 to develop as it gives a tad more contrast and a moody look. Post your results when you finish. I highly recommend this film

Do have an instagram account of is there someplace I can see your images with Babylon?

Are Pentax the only ones, where that wheel doesn't move into both directions at the ends of the ISO range?

IIRC(and don't actually have one with me to play with) most of the manual-type auto exposure Nikons(EL, FE, FA, etc) run out of EC range at the end of the ISO range. So do cameras like the Canon A-1 and I think even the New F-1.

On a lot of these cameras, the ISO and EC dials are essentially the same dial just marked differently. From what I've seen, this limitation basically hits any camera where the ISO and EC are combined on the same dial, since both dials operate the same electrical part inside the camera.

IIRC(and don't actually have one with me to play with) most of the manual-type auto exposure Nikons(EL, FE, FA, etc) run out of EC range at the end of the ISO range. So do cameras like the Canon A-1 and I think even the New F-1.

 

On a lot of these cameras, the ISO and EC dials are essentially the same dial just marked differently. From what I've seen, this limitation basically hits any camera where the ISO and EC are combined on the same dial, since both dials operate the same electrical part inside the camera.

That's because they were designed with sensible ISO/ASA speeds in mind and after the era of using the lens cap to time exposures.:rolleyes:

Anyone using anything slower, like copying film or cine print stock in the camera, was expected to know what they were doing and use a separate meter and manual mode.

That's because they were designed with sensible ISO/ASA speeds in mind and after the era of using the lens cap to time exposures.:rolleyes:

 

Anyone using anything slower, like copying film or cine print stock in the camera, was expected to know what they were doing and use a separate meter and manual mode.

To be fair, these are also from the era of Kodachrome 25 and 64. Like these films or not, they were incredibly popular with both amateurs and also Nat Geo photographers(see Afghan Girl).

Then, in the 90s, Velvia 50 took over the landscape world.

All of those fall into the range where a lot of cameras can run out of +EC on some cameras.

As you said, though, someone using these films should know how to go manual on them.

For slow film and a manual camera there is no problem shooting slow film. The meter can obviously meter the light level that you are going to need. Just make the manual compensation.

The reverse is not true that when you shoot very fast film and your meter can't measure very low light level you would want to shoot the fast film with.

I remember figuring this out with the Nikon FM. There is a circular resistor under the ASA/shutter speed knob. If you set the ISO high enough, and shutter speed low enough, it wraps around. I believe it will also do this the other way, but I never tried it.

To be fair, these are also from the era of Kodachrome 25 and 64. Like these films or not, they were incredibly popular with both amateurs and also Nat Geo photographers(see Afghan Girl).

 

Then, in the 90s, Velvia 50 took over the landscape world.

 

All of those fall into the range where a lot of cameras can run out of +EC on some cameras.

 

As you said, though, someone using these films should know how to go manual on them.

I never use the EC. Make it a lot simpler.

The EC and ISO settings on an Olympus OM-2 used the exact same dial. The dial would turn freely for several clicks in either direction if you were changing EC. To change the ISO setting you had to lift it up and turn it. It was marked in such a way that it was clear which you were changing, - EC vs ISO.

It would not turn all the way around from what I remember.

At first calling this "Exposure Compensation" struck me as "cheating". But Olympus was all about keeping their cameras compact and adding a 2nd dial that essentially just changed the ISO setting anyway didn't make much sense. Plus it had some educational value.

The EC and ISO settings on an Olympus OM-2 used the exact same dial.

That was common on nearly all film cameras. It's only with the advent of digital cameras and auto-ISO that the two controls have become separated.

If you take any digital camera off an auto-exposure mode and keep the exposure settings constant, then varying the ISO has exactly the same effect as exposure compensation.

Additionally; if you use a separate handheld meter, the only ways to apply EC are to either use a bit of mental arithmetic or to alter the ISO setting of the meter.

That was common on nearly all film cameras. It's only with the advent of digital cameras and auto-ISO that the two controls have become separated.

My Canon AE-1 Program, Elan II, Olympus XA and a number of others all had separate exposure compensation controls. Sometimes it was just a button or lever to adjust for backlighting. Then there are other simple cameras that didn't have EC per-say but had a setting for fill flash.

You're probably right for older film cameras when EC first started to appear. When manufactures started to incorporate more electronic and fewer mechanical controls, EC became separate. That was before digital though.

My Canon AE-1 Program, Elan II, Olympus XA and a number of others all had separate exposure compensation controls. Sometimes it was just a button or lever to adjust for backlighting. Then there are other simple cameras that didn't have EC per-say but had a setting for fill flash.

 

You're probably right for older film cameras when EC first started to appear. When manufactures started to incorporate more electronic and fewer mechanical controls, EC became separate. That was before digital though.

Yes for old film cameras. With newer film cameras that use digital technologies they are separate like the Nikon F5, F6 etc..

It doesn't matter if the cameras have separate controls or not. Film has a fixed speed, therefore a change of meter ISO and exposure compensation are one and the same thing.

Yes. But the ASA value is a reminder of which film you have.

If you decide to use a different EI value, having a separate knob keeps the reminder.

Well, that is before the great invention that holds the box end on the back.

Note from before built-in meters, many cameras have reminders that don't actually

do anything other than remind.

It doesn't matter if the cameras have separate controls or not. Film has a fixed speed, therefore a change of meter ISO and exposure compensation are one and the same thing.

Eh, they have the same impact but they aren't the same thing.

The Canon AE-1 was supposedly the first SLR with a microprocessor. I have the service manual for the AE-1 program which is similar. The film speed setting is a variable resister. The resistance value gets converted to a digital value and is stored in a register on the microprocessor. The light meter value is expressed as a voltage. That's converted to a digital value and stored as well. Finally the selected shutter speed is stored.

Then microprocessor then determines the proper aperture f-stop. The service manual doesn't explain how the backlight compensation button affects this operation but I doubt it changes the resistance value that comes off the film speed setting dial. If pressed it probably does exactly what the manual says it does, - adds 1.5 stops to the calculated aperture setting.

For cameras without an exposure compensation setting, people can use the film speed setting to compensate, but they can also compensate using shutter speed or aperture. So to me EC isn't just an altered ISO.