Value of ibis

I am after a small, light and inconspicuous combo to carry everywhere. I am considering either the Olympus pen f with Panasonic 20mm 1.7 pancake or fuji xe3 with 27mm 2.8 pancake. Ibis vs a larger sensor. I'm tempted to go for the fuji but am reluctant due to no ibis. Is ibis a deal breaker/maker for you?

I use an XE1 & 27mm combination and don't miss it, never needed it before. It's built into my other Fuji lenses and the only reason I leave it engaged is because Fuji puts the distracting "shaking hand" symbol prominently in the viewfinder when its off. Having owned the XE1 for some time, the Pen F looks a lot more interesting to me.

What are your shooting plans?

 

In daylight or moderate lighting, with a normal lens, I see little value in IBIS.

But in DIM lighting, IBIS has a value. But only to compensate for YOUR camera motion, it will not do anything to stop subject motion.

 

If you use a tele lens, then IBIS or OIS becomes of value.

 

The other consideration is if you have medical issues that cause your arms to shake. In that case, IBIS or OIS would help a lot.

Is ibis a deal breaker/maker for you?

66% (+x ?) "Yes", if you count "I won't buy any non IS lens for Canon, to shoot it outside a studio". - Clarification attempt: I might buy another unstabilized body in a no IS glass system. But while I am shooting such stuff I don't recommend it as a best universal choice. And yes, there are applications where you simply don't care about IBIS.- Fashion wide open in good light, anything studio like. And "I want to grab that(!) camera and do what it does" is an acceptable choice of your personal passtime, no matter how obsolete and quirky. But it will be primarily about enjoying the shooting experience, not the resulting images.

Example, my Olympus has IBIS, a stabilized shot at 1/8 sec has sharp background, but a blurry subject, because the subject moved. :(

So what? - I think as a tourist, I come to a place by night, I want to shoot it. People, motionblurring through it, aren't what I am shooting for.

IBIS is about getting away without a tripod. - I am not sure if it grants 3 or 5 extra f-stops. Borders are blurry and I guess if it is 5 stops too dark, I'd try 3 stops IBIS + 2 stops desperate ISO or such... If indoors or by night aren't your fields, you might be able to take a lot of shots without.

 

On a side note:

small, light and inconspicuous

Inconspicious gets overrated, when it comes to camera downsizing!

Sorry, people are acustomed to iPhones. Folks use those as cameras, arrange groups to fill their frames, shoot from the hip, everything... Why should it make any difference, if you carry a PenF instead of a Pentax 67 or Mamiya press or off the mill EOS? If you are photographing, you'll most likely look "photographing". There might be a difference between tiny pink camera and big white lens, when it comes to potential professional reputation, but thats all. Maybe watch digitalrevTV's "cheap camera challenge"s.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Jochen

So what? - I think as a tourist, I come to a place by night, I want to shoot it. People, motionblurring through it, aren't what I am shooting for.

IBIS is about getting away without a tripod. - I am not sure if it grants 3 or 5 extra f-stops. Borders are blurry and I guess if it is 5 stops too dark, I'd try 3 stops IBIS + 2 stops desperate ISO or such... If indoors or by night aren't your fields, you might be able to take a lot of shots without.

 

That is you, a knowledgeable photographer.

Some/many people think that IS is a "magic bullet" that will let them shoot EVERYTHING, including people, at slow shutter speeds.

They do not RTFM to understand the limitations of IS.

 

Just like my sister-in-law who asked me why her pictures were all blurry. She was holding the P&S out at arms length, and her arms were wobbling in the air.

I feel I should point out that an APS sensor is not that much bigger than m43. I am not sure that it really makes a significant difference these days. You get more depth of field for equiv focal length with m43, that is usually a benefit. I would prefer IBIS. It is often amazingly useful, so I agree with Jochen, but of course it is not a universal panacea.

I use both Olympus and Fuji systems. I used more Fuji X cameras and currently have the X-E3, X-T10. The X-E3 is the upgrade for my X-T10. It's fun to use. The Olympus Pen F I bought right along side this Fuji has the 17mm and 45mm MFT lenses. Both use WiFi to upload shots to phone. but the X-E3 has bluetooth too. Neither is weather sealed. The X-E3 feels lighter, and the Pen F is retro, more so than the X-E3.

 

X-E3 has APS-C and renders beautiful shots with a lot of dynamic range. The Olympus Pen F micro four thirds has less dynamic range and it is noticeable, but the Oly seems to get better distant details; more so than the Fuji from what I can see. Both render pictures differently, and both are great. The Olympus sharpness and detailed shots make up for the little bit less dynamic range. The Fuji LCD is easier to deal with. The Oly LCD is kind of annoying, but I found a YouTube video to make it less light reactive. The EVF on both are similar, but the one on the Oly fatigues me a little more.

 

I love both cameras. Both produce outstanding poster size prints that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Both are fun to upload jpegs, even though the Oly is slower at doing so. The Olympus came out in 2016. Not sure when the X-E3 came out. I quite frankly do not care about either as you can pick up NEW bodies from B&H Photo or similar. The Fuji will take larger lenses to accommodate that APS-C sensor and lens mount. The lenses are a tad smaller on the Olympus, especially the ones I bought, but you could certainly add a 12-100 and hold the lens so the Pen F doesn't get too front heavy. The Fuji X-E3 has that same front heaviness if you add a longer lens. Doesn't matter. Don't care. I only carry smaller cameras now.

 

The amount of pixels in the Olympus is plenty enough and the Fuji just adds even more. Both print great. Both the acres and the Mono 2 settings on both cameras are a joy to use. I shoot RAW, but now as I get older, I use JPEG for posting on social media as it comes out of the camera. The RAW is for a later date for photo editing if I find one shot that I'd like to print big. Both Fuji and olympus produce lovely images, different for the above reasons. Which is more important to you? I say get both. Photographers usually have a ton of different brands for different client shoots. Or maybe you just like different "painting brushes".

 

I have used every brand since 1970. I've used 35mm up to view cameras. I've used both film and digital cameras. I've tried and owned them all. To me, the most important thing is: Do you like the ergonomics? if it doesn't feel good in the hand and make you want to shoot, don't bother buying it. Or, rent it and try it out first.

I love the Pen F for all the reasons pointed out above. As for IBIS, I have gotten so used to shooting with it, with all its advantages including shooting at lower ISOs in low light, that I am not sure I could compare the two.I have borrowed an XE3 for a weekend and much preferred the feel in hand of the Pen F. But, I don't think you can go wrong with either--each has its advantages.

Where is the camera P O R N and "shots with ibis" P O R N?

:rolleyes:

I've been using Fuji's for a few years coming from a Penny GX7 and I can't say I've really missed it. But stabilization certainly works and is helpful for longer lenses I found, but I don't really miss it. For the lenses you're talking about it may help at night, but I found on wider angle lenses the effect is less noticeable, less useful.

If you have access to a camera with IS, here is a test: Look through the viewfinder. Then press the shutter release halfway down. Do you see a difference? If so, you might benefit from IS.