Nikon F2 - lenses and metering

Hello friends,

I got a nikon f2 (dp-1) for a low price (180 bucks), together with a Nikkor Ai-S 50mm 1.4 lens. Everything fine with the camera.

my question is: how does the Ai-S system work on F2?

On the light measurement system, I saw that it is not LED but by needle. What is the proper way to use this form of measurement? How do I know that the conditions for the photo are good?

You have an AIS lens, but the DP-1 meter prism is the older pre-AI/non-AI type. They are compatible if used in the pre-AI manner, as follows:

Look at the little white window on the front of the prism. If the lens is on the camera, this window should indicate the maximum aperture of the lens (in this case, 1.4)

If the number is incorrect, take the lens off. Using the tip of your finger, press under the center of the prism front: you'll feel a little metal piece. Push it up until you hear a click and the little window shows 5.6.

Mount the lens on the camera, twist the aperture ring to 1.4, then turn it the other direction all the way to 16.

The little window should now show 1.4

Set the film speed (ISO) by pulling up on the silver shutter speed collar, and turning it until the little red arrow points to the desired ISO number. Release the collar and the dial returns to shutter speed control.

Look thru the viewfinder, and aim the large center circle at the most important part of your image. Adjust the shutter speed or lens aperture until the meter needle moves toward the middle (center) of the white cutout. Your exposure settings are "correct" when the the needle is pointing straight in the center notch at the top edge of the white oval.

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Note you MUST turn the lens aperture ring all the way in both directions each time you change lenses (to a different lens, or the same lens if you take it off and then put it back on). This tells the camera what the maximum aperture of the lens is, so the meter can read properly. You confirm this was done correctly by making sure the little window in the front prism face shows the matching maximum aperture. You can then use the lens normally, until you take it off or change to another.

This step of needing to manually index the meter each time you attach a lens was eliminated by the AI and AIS system. When an AI lens is mounted on an AI camera, a different internal mechanism automatically detects the lens widest aperture. With a pre-AI cameras like your F2 with DP-1, the external fork sticking up from the aperture ring is what couples to the meter. This requires the twist from max to min aperture to prepare the meter to use that lens.

Pre-AI cameras like your F2/DP1 are more versatile because they fully meter couple to both AI and pre-AI lenses. The AI cameras are slightly more convenient, but only couple fully with the later AI lenses (they either can't accept older pre-AI lenses, or they accept them but metering is more clumsy and awkward than it is with AI lenses).

There were five meter prisms offered during the ten years the F2 was sold new: three pre-AI, and two AI. Your DP-1 was the first and most popular (F2 Photomic), next came the DP-2 which had two LEDs instead of the needle (F2S Photomic), then the DP-3 which had three LEDs (F2SB Photomic). The DP-11 is the AI version of your DP-1 (F2A), the DP-12 is the AI version of DP-3 (F2AS).

Sounds like you got a great deal. On an F2 with a DP-1 the AI system is not used. The manual focus lenses from that time will have a metal piece attached to the aperture ring. There is a tab on the front of the viewfinder that mates with that metallic key on the lens. Push it up until it clicks. Then put the lens on and rotate the aperture ring back and forth from minimum to maximum aperture. Maybe do that twice. Now the metering system knows the maximum aperture for that lens, f/2.8 or something like that. Looking through the viewfinder you will see numbers that are the f/stop and shutter speed along the bottom along with a needle in the middle. When the needle is centered the exposure will be correct. + means overexposure and - means underexposure. The meter is turned on by pulling the film advance lever out just a little and turned off by pushing it in. The meter battery is located on on the bottom of the camera. Don’t leave the camera with the shutter cocked for more than a day and preferably not more than a few hours. To open the back there is a tab on the bottom under the roll of film. Pull the tab out and rotate it counter clockwise. The back should pop open. There’s more but that should get you started. Get the instruction manual Sandy mentioned. This is an older camera and my favorite ever. The meter may be a little off and cycle the shutter through all speeds several times starting at 1/2000 and work your way down. The slower speeds can be temperamental if they haven’t been used in a while. Go slow, take your time and be careful.

Rick H.

Well crap Orsetto, if I had known you and I were typing at the same time I would have stopped.

Group efforts can get more info out in a shorter time, so its great you posted simultaneously :)!

Esp cuz you filled in some rather crucial details I forgot (like, ahem, how to turn on the meter :rolleyes:: might have been helpful if I'd mentioned that bit about the advance lever....). Also vital to using any F2 were your tips about the loading latch, and caution about not leaving the camera cocked in storage.

The Nikon metering system originated before through-the-lens metering.

There is a little fork device near the f/5.6 spot on the aperture ring.

As with handheld meters, it needs to know the actual aperture setting and

shutter speed setting.

With through-the-lens, full aperture metering, the meter only needs to know how

far the aperture ring is down from wide open. Using the fork at f/5.6, it then needs

to know where full aperture is, to know how far down you have set it.

AI uses a little tab that moves starting at full aperture. The camera doesn't

know the actual setting, only how far you have set it below wide open.

With TTL metering, that is enough.

For some years, Nikon (and compatible) lenses still came with the fork.

Later on, maybe about the time of AF lenses, they went away.

You might try to find a DP-12, or, maybe easier, a F2AS where the camera

isn't in good shape, but the DP-12 is. It looks like separate ones cost more

than the camera.

For some years, Nikon (and compatible) lenses still came with the fork.

Later on, maybe about the time of AF lenses, they went away.

The Series E lenses eliminated it, and have no provision(pilot holes) for mounting one.

I don't know of any AF lens that came with one, but most with an aperture ring have two little indents to serve as pilot holes for installing a fork if you wish. Of course, the last time I called Nikon and tried to order some they had no idea what I was talking about, so I don't know where to get forks other than scavenging off old lenses.

Of note, 45mm f/2.8 AI-P does not have any provision for mounting either. It's quite thin/narrow and unlike any other Nikon AI aperture ring, it only has a single row of numbers both to indicate the set aperture and to provide for the ADR read-out.

The Series E lenses eliminated it, and have no provision(pilot holes) for mounting one.

 

I don't know of any AF lens that came with one, but most with an aperture ring have two little indents to serve as pilot holes for installing a fork if you wish. Of course, the last time I called Nikon and tried to order some they had no idea what I was talking about, so I don't know where to get forks other than scavenging off old lenses.

 

Of note, 45mm f/2.8 AI-P does not have any provision for mounting either. It's quite thin/narrow and unlike any other Nikon AI aperture ring, it only has a single row of numbers both to indicate the set aperture and to provide for the ADR read-out.

Yup the series E lenses don't have it because few people would buy the series E to put on their Pre AI body. They mostly already had the Pre-AI lenses for their camera. If they need more lenses (which is unlikely falls into the focal length available for the series E) they would buy AI lenses.

I can't get out of the habit of rotating the aperture ring to both extremities even now it's pointless.

Wow! That is some serious muscle-memory you have there John.

My remaining F2 fork-and-prong finder (DP-1?) was traded in for an Ai version about 1980 something. My main-use body was an F2A, so I'd already started to break the Nikon-shuffle habit before that. I haven't even thought about the rabbit-ear mounting in, what, 20 years or more?

However, I seem to recall that some series E lenses that had a plastic aperture ring also had the little pips marked out for mounting a metering tine. Not all of them, but some. It was a bit of a crazy idea, because you'd need to drill and tap holes for 1.5mm(?) screws, and that's not something your average punter would do.

I probably buy and resell two or three F2 bodies every year, in perpetual pursuit of the highly elusive "quiet" examples. Usually I end up disappointed and offload them immediately (I already own way too many loud F2 bodies), but now and then I'll hold onto a pre-AI meter prism for awhile if its unusually clean and functional. I'd long ago standardized on the final F2AS for its AI convenience and exceptional low-light performance, but periodically toy with the idea of switching to the pre-AI F2SB instead, Eventually I tire of the "twist", sell the F2SB and revert to my F2AS bodies (until another F2SB finds my door).

The one exception is a pristine F2S (DP-2) that came to me almost free in a package deal with some Mamiya TLR stuff a couple years ago. I'd tried and discarded the F2S many times in the past, concerned about CdS cell fatigue and feeling the simplified two-LED "idiot light" meter display was too constraining vs the five step triple LED in the F2SB, F2AS, and FM. But maybe now that I can afford more than one F2, this particular F2S suddenly became much more appealing to me. It doesn't hurt that the prism serial # is very late with all the electronic upgrades, and it functions perfectly (most DP-2 prisms I've tried had flickery diodes and inaccurate metering).

The F2SB (DP-3) is the best pre-AI meter head, but too similar to the AI F2AS (DP-12) head to hold my attention for long. The F2S (DP-2), OTOH, is a hoot. For one thing, its the most endearingly hideous prism anyone ever slapped on top of a 35mm camera body (all interlocking trapezoid shapes: as if IM Pei designed it after spending the night at Winchester House with M.C. Escher). After 30 years, I've finally come round to the two-LED display: what it lacks in subtlety of info, it makes up for in visibility (the two red arrows are huge, and automatically illuminate the aperture and shutter speed readouts indoors or in dim light). The F2AS will always be my main squeeze, but a well-functioning F2S makes a fun spare. The trouble is finding one cheap that works reliably.

in perpetual pursuit of the highly elusive "quiet" examples.

They're all pretty quiet if the mirror-damping foam is in good condition, and it doesn't take much work to replace it. Then there's the gasket between prism and body. I suppose it's possible for the gasket to perish or become badly fitting, but none of my F2s show any sign of this happening.

Maybe the mirror-lift cog/damper can lose its layer of grease too. That's not going to make it any quieter. So it's just a matter of a little TLC to make any F2 as quiet as when it left the factory.

Maybe I'm the weird one, but I use an F2SB rather than an F2AS most of the time even though I have both.

I have some interesting pre-AI lenses, and the AI lenses I care about using have the coupling prong. The F2SB lets me not have to think about, and its meter is every bit the equal of the F2AS.

I don't really even think about indexing the lens on it, and I find hearing it "click" and "ratchet" into place oddly satisfying.

They're all pretty quiet if the mirror-damping foam is in good condition, and it doesn't take much work to replace it.

The issue that causes them to be annoyingly loud is not something easily DIY cured, like the external mrror foam at the top of the camera throat. The excess noise is caused by a design flaw inextricably tied to the faster 1/2000th speed of the updated shutter (vs 1/1000th in the F). Rather than delay the F2 launch for a proper fix, Nikon used a Band-Aid solution: wrap the mechanism in perishable foam. This does work, and (amazingly) still continues to work in about 40% of surviving F2 bodies nearly 50 years later.

Unfortunately in the other 60% (hundreds of thousands of F2 bodies), the foam has crumbled to powder (remove the baseplate, and it falls out like coal dust). Those F2 bodies sound cheap and tinny, like the original FM, only twice as loud: when fired, the shutter clunks normally but is followed by an extended high-pitched ringing pealing bell tone that dogs can hear two blocks away (like a tuning fork banged against a statue in a church). Most users don't notice, just as most users could have cared less about the Olympus OM-1 wonderfully quiet shutter/mirror: they take shutter noise for granted.

For those of us who do notice, its annoying and grating to the point of making the camera unusable. Adding insult to injury, Murphys Law hits this one hard: the more pristine and desirable the overall condition of a given F2, the more likely it can drown out the sound of a sanitation truck when fired. I've got two F2AS beaters and an F2S that are as quiet as my F, and four like-new F2AS that could turn heads at a performance of "Stomp".

The problematic foam noise damper pad is buried inaccessibly inside the camera body under the mirror arm, between the left side mirror box wall and the advance mechanism. Replacing it requires yanking out the entire mirror box, which most techs will bill at around $200. The problem is finding a tech who even knows the pad exists or what you're talking about: other than Sover Wong in UK and Gus Lazzari here in US, I've never found a tech who immediately understood and had experience with that specific repair. Sadly, Gus no longer takes new clients and Sover is backed up nearly two years (plus add $100 for round trip int'l shipping- ugh). I'm not keen on handing a mint F2 body to some rando tech who doesn't appear to have a clue how to service them, spending $200, and getting it back in worse shape than I gave it. Sooo... I just keep buying and flipping well-priced F2 bodies in hopes of snagging a couple more "quiet" examples. I manage to find one every other year.

.... just as most users could have cared less about the Olympus OM-1 wonderfully quiet shutter/mirror:

They probably don't notice the under-braked mirror and subsequent light leak from finder to 'dark' chamber either.

If you want a quiet camera, an SLR probably shouldn't be your first goto. Most rangefinders have got that nailed, and not Leicas either. Any leaf-shuttered Retina will out-quiet (is that acceptable grammar?) a Leica.

And my Sony a7Riv is absolutely silent in 'quiet' mode. So much so that I didn't think it had fired the first few times I tried it. It was only the flashing busy LED that confirmed I'd actually triggered the shutter.

The problematic foam noise damper pad is buried inaccessibly inside the camera body under the mirror arm, between the left side mirror box wall and the advance mechanism.

Just remembered. Years ago I had to strip the mirror-box out of my old brassed black F2 because the battery box had cracked - great design there Nikon!

Anyway, I don't remember seeing any foam pad stuck to the mirror box. And IIRC there's almost no space between the mirror box and the self-timer mechanism. So maybe it was a later addition?

If so, your 'elusive' quiet F2s should be easily traceable by serial number.

You've got me curious now. But maybe not curious enough to spend the best part of 2 days stripping the mirror box out of an F2.... although I do have a beater that has a shutter release fault.... no, don't go there! I have far better things to do. Fixing an old F2 doesn't even register on the Bucket-list radar.

Anyway, I don't remember seeing any foam pad stuck to the mirror box. And IIRC there's almost no space between the mirror box and the self-timer mechanism. So maybe it was a later addition?

Documenting this noise issue took me forever, its weirdly the least-known F2 repair aspect (even the great Essex Camera Repair team overlooked it when they overhauled my nicest F2AS). Sover Wong briefly alludes to it on his own site, and described it for me in an email conversation while he repaired my MD2 motor drive some time ago. A couple years back I finally tracked down a repair thread where an intrepid, very skilled DIYer completely tore down a scrapped F2 and photographed the rebuild process, including (yay) this arcane noise damper. Once you get the mirror box out, the "repair" couldn't be simpler: you just slap a square of nice clean foam on the side of the mirror box under the coiled spring. This 2 cent bit of foam is incredibly effective at damping the mirror box from acting as an amplification horn for the mirror return, completely eliminating the extended ringing sound after the shutter fires.

Here is a pic of the removed mirror box with fresh pad installed:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/attachments/9_mirror_ping-jpg.183067/

pulled from this repair thread:

Nikon F2 - DIY Repairs & Maintenance

Meandering discussion of the issue can be found in this other thread, of some academic interest because it proposes all the dead end wrong theories of what causes the sound until finally landing on the correct info provided by the guy who wrote the overhaul guide above:

Does your F2 make a loud "ping" when you fire it?

Oh, that left side of the mirror box.

I thought you were referring to the left side of the camera as you face it; front on. Didn't you mention the wind-on side?

Now, IIRC, the return spring in the F2 I took apart had a plastic sleeve over it. This is a common way of damping spring 'ping' and resonant vibration - although it can interfere with the spring's speed of action. Sometimes there's grease trapped inside the sleeve to further aid the damping action.

Maybe a 'belt & braces' approach of sleeve + felt/foam pad would do a better job? If I ever get around to opening up my wrecked F2 (bought cheaply as a 'project' - like I need another one!) I'll investigate the possibility.

Oh, that left side of the mirror box.

I thought you were referring to the left side of the camera as you face it; front on. Didn't you mention the wind-on side?

My bad: in reviewing the photo quickly I misinterpreted the orientation. Unfortunately p-net doesn't allow for correcting posts after 15 mins, so I can't go back and fix my earlier entry. It should have read, as you noted, the foam damper pad was affixed to the right side of mirror box as camera is facing you, between hidden internal mirror box wall and rewind (not advance).

Now, IIRC, the return spring in the F2 I took apart had a plastic sleeve over it. This is a common way of damping spring 'ping' and resonant vibration.

Thats a VERY interesting observation I'd not heard before! Theres a good chance you're remembering this correctly, because it would completely explain why some ancient never-serviced F2 bodies are still reasonably quiet while others ring like the Wall Street opening bell. If Nikon intermittently experimented with sleeving the spring instead of (or in addition to) using the perishable foam pad, F2 bodies with the more durable intact sleeve would remain ring-free for many years longer.

Theres a good chance you're remembering this correctly,

Trying to rewind my memory on this, and I really can't be sure it was the F2 spring that was sleeved. However, I've definitely seen a similar mirror tensioning spring with a plastic sleeve over it. It might well have been a different model, or an entirely different make of camera!