Which one would you choose

There are still a couple dozen "name" repair centers scattered across the US that routinely service film magazines for nearly any MF system

Who? Where? Contact info?

 

Since you participate in these types of threads and apparently have long experience with the cameras under discussion, you could easily have provided this info at any time you thought appropriate instead of harping on it with me. But as you seem to want me to do it instead:

 

There's nothing inherently different about a Bronica ETR, esp the film backs, that any repair service that works on film cameras wouldn't know what to do with it. Its in the same boat as any random older DSLR or Nikon or Canon or Mamiya that needs service: a simple search here on p-net or the web at large will pull up suggestions (some local, some at the other end of the country.) Camera repair techs are like auto mechanics: for every person who praises one, another will claim they're terrible and a ripoff. Some excellent techs like Gus Lazzari are so overbooked they no longer take on new clients: the situation changes yearly. So its tricky to make specific recommendations except in cases where the camera is a known gigantic PITA to repair that requires dedicated specialists (Leica, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad). Those specialists you can count on the fingers of one hand, and have been around longer than p-net: everyone with such a camera knows who they are (or learns soon enough).

 

Here in NYC I've had good work from Camera Doctor, Photo Tech and Nippon Photo Clinic on Nikons, Olympus, Konica, Pentax, Mamiya Press, Mamiya TLR, Hasselblad, Mamiya RB67 and Voigtlander. Prior to that I sent everything I owned to Essex Camera Repair in NJ, unfortunately now closed. I've been happy with MF gear serviced by KEH, as have many others here.

 

In the past I've sent difficult Hasselblad lenses and bodies to David Odess in Massachusetts. He is expensive, shipping costs add even more, and wait list is long, but he's the go-to guy for very sick 'blad gear. Simpler stuff like back service I try to get done locally.

 

Other multi-brand firms frequently recommended by long-time posters here are California Precision Service, Kurts Camera Repair in San Diego, ICT Camera in Mountain View, CA, Dave's Camera Repair in Chelsea, MI. But I'd strongly recommend asking other photographers, possibly from a class or group, to recommend who they use locally. There are still little hole-in-the-wall camera repair shops: the work is often very good and much less expensive than shipping to the larger guys with big reputations. I was very sorry when my local guy (Marty's Camera Repair in Forest Hills) closed up a couple years ago: his prices were amazingly affordable and he worked fast.

 

*************************

 

Once again, the Bronica ETR and SQ mfr is long defunct, and there are few (if any) Bronica-dedicated techs left with a stash of parts. This is not as significant an issue as it is with the older focal-plane Bronica S2, EC and EC/TL: the leaf shutter ETR and SQ were vastly more popular reliable professional tools that remained in production a lot longer, so theres a wide variety of good examples to choose from. They are also less complex mechanically, working similarly to a Hasselblad or Mamiya RB/RZ, so any service firm experienced in other MF systems can fix simple mechanical issues with the film advance or mirror in the bodies or leaks/spacing issues in the backs.

 

As with any vintage discontinued electronic camera, electronic parts are the elephant in the room: if a circuit goes bad, it usually isn't cost effective or possible to repair. But this rarely comes up with an ETR or SQ: Bronica learned from their mistakes with the convoluted EC and EC/TL. Here and there, a really abused body, lens or meter prism will develop electronic issues, but more often than not careful examination reveals apparent electronics issues to be a problem with the contact surfaces (just like similar electronic Pentax, Hassy H, Contax MF film gear or Nikon, Canon, Fuji etc digital). Keep the contacts clean, and always keep a spare film back on hand: sometimes the back external interface pins wear in such a way that they completely confuse the body/lens into dysfunction. Swapping to a spare, less-often-used back can help diagnose that immediately.

Edited May 25, 2020 by orsetto

Hadn't priced the Mamiya TLRs lately- definitely higher than I remember some years ago. I also remember the first time I saw a Hasselblad 500 series in the flesh. I had always thought it was an elegant thing and my first reaction was how large it was. As a kid, I bicycled the hills of Vermont with a Yashica MAT-124 in my pack. Perfectly reasonable. At some point in high school I traded it for a used Mamiya C2 in the local photo store. Things seem heavier today than they used to and I never thought the chrome shutter lens was as crisp as the Yashinon. OTOH, my newer black shutter Mamiya 80mm on the 330 is razor sharp and has lots of pop. Man, GAS can start at an early age.

@cameragary

I’ve bought another model of Bronica (GS-1) about a year ago and used it heavily since then, so wanted to share some practical brand experience as some of it could be relevant for ETR too.

 

First and foremost, I was a bit disappointed with metered prism. While in normal day light conditions exposures turn up good, I found them to produce rather erratic results in low light conditions / shutter speeds in range of 1/4 sec and below or so, and goes completely wild with 1 sec and longer (despite reciprocation effect calculation etc). Maybe I just got a bad/broken prism or it just went out of calibration. I’ll probably never find out as I basically given up on it and started to use WLF with an external meter. That gives me much better control over the exposure. If I would add smaller Bronica or any other MF camera, I would most certainly buy it with WLF or non-metered prism and would discard expensive metered prisms.

 

Aside from metered prism, the rest works just perfectly. Everything is intuitive, nothing gets stuck or has to be pressed several times, etc. - timeless quality product.

 

Won’t be writing anything about lenses because they are different on GS-1, though not supposed to be better than PE lenses.

 

A bit surprised to read about film back issues on smaller Bronicas. For GS-1 I’ve got 3 backs from different sellers, including an obviously old beaten up one, they work just perfectly without any sign of light leak. Perhaps backs for larger Bronica have better sealing construction? Not sure.

 

Almost 100% of my shots with Bronica I do on tripod, with mirror lock up and remote cable release. That yields what I consider very high technical quality of the image, just enormous step up from 35mm. Not sure how about ETR, but I think I was lucky to get the cable release cord for GS-1, they seem to be rather rare.

 

I’ve got extension tube and did some “macro” shooting. It works. My overall impression is that physical condition like flexibility of the knee joints, back muscles stamina are more important in outdoor macro shooting than actual gear :)

 

For handheld shooting I would still take my 35mm or digital camera. MF SLR, especially 6x7 SLR seems to be just too bulky. Though ETR might be a bit more compact and actually suitable for hand held / street shooting too. That really depends on what you plan to use it for.

 

Just 2 cents, best of luck with your purchase whatever you decide to go for.

First and foremost, I was a bit disappointed with metered prism.

 

They were never especially accurate. A handheld meter, especially one that combines incident and one degree spot capability, will make life way more fun.

Thanks, orsetto. Your best post to date! Deserves a sticky somewhere on the site. For any film shooter--whatever the format--service is the grail now, closer the better.

The GS1 arrived last, after the ETR and SQ, by which time Bronica had refined their back design a bit (also the GS1 backs are larger, allowing more breathing room for the designers). Unlike the ETR and SQ, the GS1 was not popular: the 645 ETR scaled up nicely into the 6x6 SQ, but the SQ did not scale up as well to the 6x7 GS1 (a little too large/heavy to maintain the "fun with grip and AE prism" ethos, and it faced intense competition from the revolving-back Mamiya RB/RZ and entrenched Pentax 67). GS1 is more appreciated now than when it was new, despite the difficulty finding some accessories for it.

 

As the third format to arrive, the GS1 came out of the gate with a "perfected" lens lineup (PG series). The earlier ETR went thru three lens series (MC, EII and PE) while the SQ went thru one revamp (from S to PS). Opinions vary on whether there is really any dramatic optical difference between generations: depending on focal length, the "improvement" could be as simple tighter quality control and slightly more reliable mechanics, in other cases there was a complete optical overhaul. IIRC, getting the PE version is most important with the wides (and perhaps the 150mm).

 

Early versions of the ETR and SQ body do not have the mirror lockup feature of the GS1: if you want that in the ETR you need the final ETRSi version (which also has improved mechanics and built in SCA flash metering). The middle period ETRS is barely different from the original ETR aside from being newer and having compatibility with the later improved AEII and AEIII meter prisms (I believe the original ETR can only mount the original first version AE prism). The original ETR has an all-metal black body shell that was also available in a nifty silver trim, ETRS and ETRSi migrated to black-only polycarbonate shells.

 

Earliest (oldest) ETR film backs have a single latch button on top with leatherette trim, 2nd version changes the leatherette to ribbing, 3rd (final) update has two latch buttons on top with opposing embossed arrows. There were minor updates between these major revisions, but they can be difficult to identify. Overall condition and seller guarantee of functionality is probably more important than version, but generally speaking newer is better (more reliable advance and spacing, less likely to develop resistant light leaks).

Edited May 26, 2020 by orsetto

A bit surprised to read about film back issues on smaller Bronicas. For GS-1 I’ve got 3 backs from different sellers, including an obviously old beaten up one, they work just perfectly without any sign of light leak. Perhaps backs for larger Bronica have better sealing construction? Not sure.

 

There's no rubber seals for any of the those Bronicas' backs, the GS-1, and smaller Bronicas. They relied on a "face-to-face" tongue and groove joint between the body and back. The top face of the tongue on the back comes up solidly against the bottom face of the groove in the body, with no other faces of the back touching the body. If you hold one of these cameras with a back attached up to the light, you will see a very thin gap between the body and the back. As explained, it's because only the tongue is touching the body, but you can't see that, it's touching inside the bottom of the groove. Presto, no need for sponge rubber seals on those cameras at least. Obviously the idea works well and should be trouble free while ever the spring loaded catches at the bottom pull the back hard against the body, as they're meant to do.

The Mamiya TLR on the other hand relies on a sponge rubber seal glued to a long flexible tin rear door. Get the replacement job wrong and you will continue to have light leaks until you get it right. The new seal must be the correct width and glued in the correct position so that it comes up nicely against the mating ridge on the body. The thickness of the new seal should be such that door catch can be comfortably but with a little firmness, closed. Then a light leak test will be necessary in case something is still not right.

Bronica seemed unaware that the GS-1 was late to the 6x7 party. Very compact for the format, nice lenses and accessories, polished build but soft demand. Anyone interested needs to score the elusive "rotary finder" that eases the awkwardness of the landscape/portrait flip. Seemed to me to underscore the design smarts of the Mamiya rotating back that made a big-a$$ camera handle IMHO like something far smaller.

Bronica seemed unaware that the GS-1 was late to the 6x7 party. Very compact for the format, nice lenses and accessories, polished build but soft demand. Anyone interested needs to score the elusive "rotary finder" that eases the awkwardness of the landscape/portrait flip. Seemed to me to underscore the design smarts of the Mamiya rotating back that made a big-a$$ camera handle IMHO like something far smaller.

 

I have the rotary finder. It seems to be a bit more consistent than the metered prism in terms of exposure, though deviates about 1 stop from my hand-held meter in spot-metering mode. The main issue with it is its bulkiness. It's almost the size of the camera body and weights almost as much as 150 mm PG lens. When it comes to packing the kit for a trip and deciding what to take and what not to take, there is simply no space. It is probably good studio tool though, or for 'local' shooting where no full kit has to be carried around.

 

In practice I found portrait composing with WLF not that bad. Actually easier than some of "trivial" macro scenes or pointing into the ground. And with regular prism on a ball head portrait flip must be piece of cake.

 

Anyway, did not want to hijack ETR / Mamiya TLR discussion. Just wanted to highlight that some practical aspects of things may arise down the road. If MLU is only available in ETRSi as Orsetto noticed, I would not underestimate that bit. And WLF + external meter option seem both weight saver for touring and opens up exposure control fun. One nice thing about PE lenses is that they have uniform filter diameter across almost all lenses. With GS-1, Zenzanon PG 50mm is a very good lens, but even basic filter set (95 mm diameter) will likely overshoot the cost of the lens itself and will add up to the weight. PG 200 and 250mm are 82mm diameter unlike other lenses with 72mm which would again require additional filters to buy and carry - I don't buy those lenses almost solely for that reason. Whereas with PE lenses no filter diameter fiddling is required except for the 'extreme' 30mm.

Personally, I'm a fan of the duck-billed platypus of the camera world, the Mamiya TLR (C33). It's big, it's heavy, it's clunky, and it feels like someone wedged a large format camera into a shoebox, took away the useful bits (the movements) and added a second lens. The shutter release lever feels like it was bolted on at the last minute and having to turn the camera around to change the shutter / aperture settings is... "quaint".

 

But it takes fantastic pictures, and the ability to focus close-up, and swap out lenses, is great. Given the dents in the WLF that came with mine, my guess is it was either dropped, or stepped on. Doesn't matter-- neither would harm the camera in any significant way.

 

I was able to build up a kit with an 80mm, a 105mm, and a 180mm (and a CdS prism viewfinder, which seems to work surprisingly well) for around $400 USD. I also picked up (*really* cheap) a 135mm lens, but the rear elements have so much haze it makes Beijing look like a clear sunny day.

 

It's not the camera for everyone, but it appeals to me in a brute force, over-the-top kind of way.

Just a little update.there may be a deal on the horizon.no money talk yet but I'd looking to try to get a package deal.with the bronica etrs. it has the 75mm 2.8 zenzanon (im assuming now the mc version) on it.he also has 3 other lenses and (im assuming) the mc versions also.they all look exactly the same cosmetically .

100mm f4

150mm f3.5

40mm. F4

I am looking for one other lens and was leaning towards the 150mm. Looking for any recommendations you may have.

Appreciate your help

Gary

100mm f4

150mm f3.5

40mm. F4

I am looking for one other lens and was leaning towards the 150mm. Looking for any recommendations you may have.

 

The 150mm is very well regarded in all versions (MC, E, PE), good choice if you think you might be doing more portrait work and/or selective landscapes.

 

The 100mm f/4 was the earlier ETR Macro lens: similar to the Hasselblad Makro Planar in that it doesn't focus super-close by itself (gets down to about 1:4), but is optimized for close work and flat field. Extension tubes will get you closer to true macro with excellent quality. I believe the later 105mm Macro focuses all the way to 1:2 or 1:1 without tubes, and has improved coatings, but is much larger and pricier.

 

The 40mm f/4 came in three distinct versions: silver front rim MC, black front E/MC, and PE. The first was a fairly simple optical formula, the second larger with more elements, the third simplified again with fewer elements of improved configuration and coatings. The 40mm is one of the few ETR focal lengths where one should almost certainly pursue the newest PE over earlier versions, BUT if the asking price is reasonable, the earlier models can be just fine (albeit with somewhat lower corner performance compared to PE).

 

40mm is a polarizing focal length in medium format: people either love it or hate it. The AOV approximates using a 24mm lens with a 35mm SLR or FX digital, but this frames and composes a bit differently with the less-rectangular 645 format. An advantage of the ETR is its 40mm lenses are relatively compact compared to say Hasselblad: the 'blad 40s are all enormous and clumsy, while the ETR is much more manageable. This alone can make shooting 40mm with the ETR more appealing than it might be with other medium format cameras. The deciding factor seems to be how much architecture or interior work one does: 50mm seems more popular as the 'universal' wide, while 40mm is favored by those who always find themselves literally with their backs to a wall.

 

All the ETR PE lenses sold for approx. $1200-$1300 brand new in in 1997, so prices today are an absolute steal.

Edited June 2, 2020 by orsetto

i saw a picture of all the lenses and they are all black nosed lens,can only see ione that says mc .as i shoot mostly close up now with my s2a with either macro tubes or close up lenses , i do like like shooting pics of old churches and buildings,stock yards and when i travel i would be taking landscape pictures.i believe the 100mm or 150mm would probably suit me better than the 40mm lens.i just used my 135mm with my s2a and an extension tube and i liked the size of the flowers in the viewfinder. so i'm thinking either the 100 or 150 would probably suit me.i can use the 75mm for my building pics for now.maybe down the road a 40 or 50mm will come up.

thanks again for your help.keep you updated.

gary

@cameragary you may want to check extension tube manuals (usually googlable as pdf file). In GS-1 case they contain a table with minimum and maximum focusing distances. The lesser focus distance of the lens - the less are min/max distances and the more is enlargement ratio.

 

To give you an example, Zenzanon PG 50mm (should be close to PE 40mm) focuses at around 2-3 cm from the object! And provides 0.87 enlargement ratio. Focusing is so sensitive that it is only useful for home/studio use in my opinion. I spent once like 20 min bent on my knees trying to focus it properly at a small flower.

Always liked square, if your S2a is working fine Gary I would just keep using it.

If you are really wanting a TLR because of the waist level viewing & near silent shutter, get a Rolleicord or flex. They are silky smooth, easy to maintain.

 

If you are considering 4.5x6 look for a Fuji - terrific for travel: light and small but good size neg. Easy to make vertical and horizontals. Sharp lenses, simple construction, not a lot to go wrong. Good for action too, something that can not be said for most other 120 cameras.

Always liked square, if your S2a is working fine Gary I would just keep using it.

If you are really wanting a TLR because of the waist level viewing & near silent shutter, get a Rolleicord or flex. They are silky smooth, easy to maintain.

 

If you are considering 4.5x6 look for a Fuji - terrific for travel: light and small but good size neg. Easy to make vertical and horizontals. Sharp lenses, simple construction, not a lot to go wrong. Good for action too, something that can not be said for most other 120 cameras.

Well, it looks like I'll be shooting my s2a for a while.just got word that the etrs is sold to someone else and is being held for the party.never reached any deal or even talked serious about it.so ,I'll just use my s2a and keep my eyes open for the next opportunity to come by. There is someone I know that wants to trade some equipment for one.I'll have to think about it.just wanted to update all you folks that gave me your input on this.you are a wealth of information and I do appreciate it.

Thanks Gary

another update , the gent with the mamiya c330 told me he sold it just before lockdown.so now both the bronica etrs and c330 are gone.just not meant to be right now.well i still have the s2a and my other cameras to play with.we'll just wait and see for now.

thanks again- gary