D810 vs D4

shooting with a D800 abd D500 right. now and have a D3 on the shelve. want to upgrade the D800 and ave about 1000.

bothe the D4 and D810 are close in price on ebay

For me I would get the D810 over the D4 as the D 810 has Expeed 4 vs Expeed 3 for the D4.

 

Does the D4 on ebay include the more expensive battery for the D4? (I do not know if your D3 battery will work in the D4).

 

More info about each camera here:

 

Nikon D4 Camera Review | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

 

 

Nikon D810 Camera Review | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

I have neither, but like you have a D500 and a D800, along with a D3s. I also have a Df, which has the D4 sensor.

 

For me, the choice would come down to which camera you use more, and what specifically you're looking for in a camera:

 

The D4 sensor is at least 1 stop better than the D3, and might well be one of the best low light sensors Nikon has ever put into a camera

 

The D810 has the same sensor you're comfortable with in the D800, but without an AA filter so it's a tiny bit sharper

 

Your D500 has the same AF system as the D5, which is newer and better than the D4. The AF on my D500 constantly amazes me, and it's fast and sure even with normally slow focusing lenses like the 300mm f/4(screwdriver) and basically instantaneous with good AF-S lenses like my 70-200 f/2.8 VR.

 

The D810 is basically a massaged version of the D800. By itself, no one change would make a compelling case to replace it, but added together all of those little things make a compelling case for an upgrade. In fact, a D810 is in my semi-short-term plan(unless I can swing the cash for a D850).

 

Both the D4 and D500 run at 10fps, so there's no real compelling case for one over the other if that spec is important to you(although the D4 can edge the D500 out slightly at 11fps in DX crop mode). The D810 is somewhat more leisurely and only moves at 7fps in DX crop mode with a battery grip.

 

The D4 does handle like a single digit D camera, and it's hard to replicate that. It has the little joysticks that I've come to really appreciate on the D500, and of course you have a the vertical grip/vertical release. On the other hand, you can add those too a D500/D800/D810 and not have to carry the extra weight around with you.

 

If I had a $1000 burning a hole in my pocket and were in your situation, I'd choose the D810.

If comparing, part of your decision arguments might also be which type of media you want to use,

- D4 : XQD and or CF cards

- D810 All types of SD and or CF cards

If comparing, part of your decision arguments might also be which type of media you want to use,

- D4 : XQD and or CF cards

- D810 All types of SD and or CF cards

 

That's a good point. With the OP's current cameras, they could have a mix of all three types, or perhaps only have one or two. SD cards cover both the D800 and D500, while XQD would be specific to the D500 and presumably they have CF cards to cover the D3.

 

I really like XQD cards, but they are also quite expensive and not always easy to find(albeit better than they use to be). I only have two of them.

 

It's not unreasonable to think that the D500 and D850 might one day get a firmware update to use CFExpress, but my guess is that it's highly unlikely for the D4 to get one.

If you have to ask, and you already have the good cameras... why upgrade? A D810 or D4 would hardly give you an advantage over what you can do with a D800 or D500. If there’s not some specific reason for a new camera, save your money. Some day you can put it toward a D850 or Z series.

If you have to ask, and you already have the good cameras... why upgrade? A D810 or D4 would hardly give you an advantage over what you can do with a D800 or D500. If there’s not some specific reason for a new camera, save your money. Some day you can put it toward a D850 or Z series.

 

That is a good point.

 

My D500 and D800 pair covers my needs very well for both a hi-res camera and a fast camera. The Df was bought as a special purpose camera for me, but I actually is it at least as often as my others.

 

I'm sitting here looking at my D3s and thinking that I should probably sell it while there's still a decent amount of value in it. The D500 is better in terms of frame rate and the Df better at high ISO. I really think that my next camera will likely be a D850 rather than a D810.

Actually, a friend bought an 850 then circled back and bought an 810 also. He found the 45.7 megapixels inconvenient for some applications. Either, of course, a super camera.

Actually, a friend bought an 850 then circled back and bought an 810 also. He found the 45.7 megapixels inconvenient for some applications. Either, of course, a super camera.

 

I can understand that, but let me approach the question a bit differently-

 

As things are now, it makes sense to me to pay the extra for a D810 over a D800 if buying used(when I bought my D800, they were still reliably north of $1K and D810s were still the current model).

 

Did your friend, however, go from a D800 to a D850 and then circle back to a D810?

 

I certainly understand the "too big" aspect. Most of my photos intended to be posted directly online are actually shot on a Fuji Finepix S5. It's an oddball sensor that Fuji called 12mp but some call 6mp(and both definitions are technically true). The files are easy to handle, its high ISO performance doesn't really matter under studio lighting, and I like its color rendition. In the past, I've used a D700 for the same task again because the files aren't too large.

Edited April 14, 2020 by ben_hutcherson

Actually, can't recall if he had an 800. I do find with the software I use that the D810 is slower to upload than D750 or D7200. The only time that is even mildly annoying is the rare occasion that I have taken a couple hundred photos. Don't see much difference with the latter two vs. the DF - an academic point, since I don't use anything but wire transfers.

Another alternative would be to keep your D500 and buy a D850 and fund it with your $1000 and additional $ from selling your D3 and D800. If you use Nikon flash a lot make sure it will work on the D500 and D850 the way you want it to.

I do not know if your D3 battery will work in the D4

Not it won't.

 

Nikon's D2 and D3 families use the EN-EL4, including EN-EL4a, batteries.

The D4, D4s, D5, and D6 use the EN-EL18 batteries, which have the a, b, and c variations. All variations are interchangeable. The original EN-EL18 has lower capacity than the later a, b, and c variations.

 

But the EN-EL4 and EN-EL18 are not compatible.

 

At least IMO, it is not a big enough jump from the D800 to D810, and I never bothered to upgrade. If possible, I would move up to the D850, which is quite similar so that you'll have the DX and FX versions of a similar design. Since the D850 is newer, it has better video capabilities; not sure that makes a difference.

FWIW, I did upgrade my D800e to a D810 (and traded in my D700 to do it, having found that I never used it any more and the swapped +/- buttons were driving me nuts whenever I did image review). I didn't regret it:

• The D810 feels like a faster camera in interactions
  
• 5fps at full resolution and 6fps at a 25MP 1.2x crop is a detectable update from 4 and 5fps respectably (the D800 felt like a stills-only camera, although I did use it for the occasional sporting event; the D810 felt like a general-purpose camera, whereas the D850 - which can do full resolution at 9fps with a grip - feels capable of actual action shots)
  
• In live view the D810 doesn't lock up until the image is written like the D810 does - so I'm less reliant on fast cards to make live view tolerable
  
• Highlight priority metering appeared on the D810, and I use it heavily - although I still don't find it 100% reliable
  
• I use ISO 64 a lot - but then I was happy to shoot Velvia too. Given that for sharpness you shouldn't be at f/8 or below anyway if you can avoid it, it's not nearly as unusable as some would claim - the majority of my images are at ISO 64, either because I've got sunlight available or because I'm using a fast aperture to hide an ugly indoor background. I'll take all the dynamic range I can get (although the D800 is arguably a little cleaner in the ISO 200-mid-range).
  
• The D810 shutter is a non-intrusive clonk compared with the clatter of the D800 - a major reason I've kept it as a backup alongside my D850, whose shutter has caused comments in quiet environments
  

I do agree though that the D850 is another substantial step forward, mostly at doing the things the unibody cameras and D500 have historically been good at, especially with the grip on it. It's not quite as fast or good in low light as a D5 or D4s, but it finally got rid of my lurking D3s envy. Swapping all your bodies for a D850 plus grip would not be unreasonable, unless you like having a backup or two bodies to hand for lens reasons. At least you've presumably already dealt with the card and flash tax over the D800 if you've got the D500. That said, there's something about the unibody handling, and some people would argue that's worth the price of entry. My only camera in that category is an F5, and absent 25 years of refinement I'm not really in a position to judge. :-)

 

(Sorry for the silence, everyone. New job. Busy busy. Not getting out to shoot much either, obviously. I'll be back. Hope everyone's staying safe.)

(Sorry for the silence, everyone. New job. Busy busy. Not getting out to shoot much either, obviously. I'll be back. Hope everyone's staying safe.)

In these days, should appreciate the fact that you have a job at all. o_O

In these days, should appreciate the fact that you have a job at all. o_O

 

Oh, I do, especially having aligned my time between jobs such that all this kicked off before I was re-employed - and while the medical professionals get (and deserve) a lot of good press, I'm also very grateful to supermarkets, fast food delivery places, etc. who are all staying open at some personal risk to make this tolerable. Fortunately I'm in a career for which working from home probably has a net positive for the standards of equipment that I get to use and for my productivity, at least for now. On the other hand, the limited fraction of an exposed window (not hidden behind boxes) in my study means that any snaps I could take of two rooftops and a tree with "dirty window filter" would get stale quite quickly, even if the weather is unusually nice at the moment, so it might not be conducive to my Nikon Wednesday contributions. Also, the brightly-lit completely static scene is not exactly going to tax my D850, or indeed Jay's D800. Post-COVID-world-problems...

 

(It may take a few pay slips before I start wishing that Coronavirus wasn't impacting my ability to self-inflict NAS, though. If I hadn't said, Nikon UK did take the ideas spreadsheet and promise that they were passing it up the chain, although under the circumstances I'm going to give them a while before checking whether it's gone anywhere useful.)

 

Glad to see the regulars are still posting. Stay safe, everyone.

Being one of those people who has to have a backup always, I got the D800 a couple of years ago as my first full frame body. Sitting right next to it was a lightly used D4s and I was back soon for that and an 810 several months later. If I were back in the news business the D4s would be my primary body. It’s fast enough to shoot any situation or event. I could live without the XQD card. The 800 and 810 are wedding and event cameras for me. They don’t need to be as fast but I still haven’t run into anything I couldn’t do. I have found the flagship cameras ever since the F2 to be better, easier to use and more capable but the second level cameras are much closer than they used to be.

 

Rick H.

Do you really need multiple cameras? If not I would sell them all and get a D850 with the grip and D4/5 battery. Almost as fast a D4/D500, same DX resolution and AF as the D500 (to all practical uses at least), faster, better AF and higher resolution than the D810.

 

If you do need multiple cameras, I would suggest you, save some more money. The when budget allows, sell the D800 and pair your D500 with a D850 (without the grip and D4/5 battery to begin with). The D500 and D850 are very similar in terms of ergonomics and it would not feel awkward switching between them. Getting a D810 may very well still keep you lusting for the D850. If so, the D810 is more like a costly stop along the way, which while it will be an improvement will still end up costing you more than getting what you really want to begin with.

 

If you do not need every image file to be 45 Mpix, you could shoot Medium or Small RAW with the D850. It does not make the camera any faster, but it gives you smaller files and lower resolution files to store. Yes, the dynamic range is limited compared to Large RAW at the same ISO, but then again so is DR from a D4 compared to a D850 as well. I have owned the D800 and the D800E and used the D810. All three are excellent cameras, but there is a much larger improvement in all alreas going from the D810 to the D850 than it is going from the D800 (especially the D800E) to the D810. In that respect, it makes sense that the name first changed by 10 and then by 40.

I agree that the D850 was a big step up - particularly for the cases where a single-digit camera would have historically been useful: higher frame rates and low light. I do still find myself using my D810 as well, though (whereas the D700 I kept as a backup for my D800e rarely left the shelf):

• The shutter noise (assuming you're not using live view because you want tolerably fast autofocus) of the D810 is significantly less intrusive, especially in Q mode.
  
• The D810 has an integrated flash, which means I have a bit less to carry if I just want the option of capturing something badly lit, and a lot less to carry if I want to trigger my SB600s (otherwise I'm bringing radio triggers).
  
• The D810 has a plastic screen cover; the D850, being a touchscreen, is exposed. You can get protectors, but my solution is to keep my D850 in a soft wrap when it's inside my camera bag to stop it being scratched. This does make me paranoid when I'm taking photos and have something sharp which might rub against the camera, such as a conference pass/lanyard. My D810's plastic screen protector is pretty scratched up even though I'm fairly careful.
  
• Getting the most performance out of the D850 (both in frame rate and AF performance) means adding the grip, which makes it bigger and heavier.
  
• I have way more storage in the form of compactflash cards than XQD cards, so if I worry about filling up, the D810 is better.
  
• I have a bit of a fight with the D850's AF module: On the D810 I can use 3D tracking, initiate focus at a selected point, and rely on the camera following the subject around, which is good for eye tracking a subject who's moving around. The D850's 3D tracking uses the unselectable "helper" points even on lock-on, which means it tends to jump (invisibly) to a nearer area rather than what the point is covering. You can work around it by using the programmable buttons to trigger single-point AF or D9 when necessary, but it's not quite the "just works" of the D810. (Otherwise the D850 module is a step up; the D6's module may be better yet, and remove the issue. See the Nikon ideas thread for more information.)
  

The touchscreen and flash issues also apply to the D500, of course. The D850 is a great camera, and a significant improvement in a lot of areas. It's not two steps forward, one step back - but it might be two steps forward with slightly slippery feet if you find any of these affects you. Being able to choose between two cameras depending on use is a great luxury (unless/until Nikon fix these). Of course, it's one you pay for.

Hi Andrew!

I like the unibody style of the D4, D5 etc.. but I found fast AF and fast frame rate no longer important to me. Low light is but I am not sure if a D4 or D5 would have less noise than the D850 once the image captured by the D850 is resized to be the same size as one coming out of the D5/D4.

I see all the benefit going to the mirrorless except that I still do not want the EVF I still want the reflex viewfinder (not just optical). So really I am at the point where there is no camera I want. That is I have no GAS.

I'm a bit biased - my F5 is pretty unrefined by the standards of modern bodies, especially when trying to use the vertical grip. I see some benefits, but I've got to say the bulk occasionally put me off - and I speak as someone who typically keeps an L-plate on my cameras "just in case". The D850's portrait grip isn't all that hot either (I don't really understand why there's a pronounced lip rather than being relatively seamless), but at least I can pick and choose, and compared with the earlier D8x0 bodies at least you gain speed without dropping to DX.

 

I'm relying on DxOMark for this, but it reports that, when scaled, the D850 pretty much matches the D4/Df at high ISO (other than the magic ISO1600 where that sensor excels); the D4s and D5 are somewhat better, especially the D5 - but then the D5 loses out at low ISOs, which matters to me (but likely not to the target audience who aren't going to be doing drastic post-processing shadow lifts while their editors are waiting for the shot). All the higher-resolution cameras get noisy fast if you peer at the individual pixels, which is why I like ISO64 when I can get it.

 

It's hard to see how the higher-resolution cameras could avoid some lag when using the main sensor for composition - once an exposure has been taken with the mechanical shutter (which corresponds to mirror black out, minus a bit, on a dSLR), there still needs to be time to read the image off the sensor before it can be used for composition. This isn't an issue at lower resolutions like that of the A9, which can pull the entire sensor data off quickly (and presumably start as soon as the shutter starts to close), but if you're data limited below 10fps you're going to be a bit frozen. Short of a global shutter and the ability to start re-exposing parts of the sensor while the rest is still being read from, it's tricky; a dSLR effectively gets around it by having a second "sensor" that's the optical path. The ability to match the D850's behaviour at 9fps is one thing that puts me off the Z7 - although I'm sure incremental improvements are possible. I'd rather have an OVF's dynamic range too, especially since the internal JPEG rendering is of little interest to me, but I acknowledge that there are other benefits to being able to display things on the OVF screen - even if you can get a lot of them just by using the rear screen instead.

 

I have a little (currently only a little) envy of the new mount and what it might allow, especially if F-mount lens development is effectively discontinued - the issue may be less what the Z mount allows than that future optical advances won't make it to the F mount. I'm not hugely limited by what I've got, although I can still look a little longingly at the new Canon 85mm (though I doubt the RF-ness is responsible for the lack of LoCA) or reports of the Z-mount 70-200. The time may come when I switch. I may yet upgrade my dSLR if Nikon produce a better option for me - with some concern that slapping a 60MP sensor in a D850 wouldn't be that, without a number of other improvements. Sony have the same problem, with a number of sites recommending the A7R3 over the A7R4. Honestly at the moment if I wanted a new Nikon camera it's as likely to be a P950.

 

Which, dragging us back on topic, has a lot to say about how good the D850 is. But the D810 is still a heck of a camera. And it's not like the camera has been the limiting factor in my photography for an awfully long time, if ever - I'm only chasing the last few niggles.

 

That said, I was trying to shoot some bluebell images yesterday (during my government-mandated maximum 30-minute public exercise period with social distancing). I'm beginning to think I should have voted higher on the "AF fine tuning at multiple AF points" bullet of the ideas spreadsheet - my 14-24 was refusing to behave nearer the edges of the frame, and for lighting and support reasons I didn't want to resort to live view. Maybe that Z series will eventually be calling.