Nikon Announces D780, 120-300mm/f2.8 F Mount, and 70-200mm/f2.8 Z Mount

Actually the D780 isn't better than the D750 in my opion. It has the mirrorless features but why buy it if I want the DSLR. I never even use live view on my DSLR. So if I was in the market for one I would have bought the $1000 D750 when Nikon had it on sale.

If I am into mirrorless then why buy a DSLR? The Z6 is less expensive and the Z7 is only like $300 or $400 more and offers a whole lot more.

Most people's economic situation is different than the '70s or '80s. Somewhere, I can't find it right now, Thom Hogan made reference to this fact in his "plan" for Nikon. I had more discretionary income back then. We spent way less on cable, phone and other stuff

People in my country have a lot more purchasing power today than back then, for what it's worth. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing, as it leads to purchases of things that are not needed.

Lenses like the 120-300/2.8 Nikkor (or some of those long teles back then) are probably purchased mainly by news agencies and wire services and such and not so much by individuals. My guess is that many 120-300's that we will see at the Olympics will be owned by Nikon and loaned to accredited NPS members. Nikon probably want high visibility of their gear at the Olympics and material to use for marketing it afterwards.

Sports photographers make less money today than they did before everything went online. I am not sure if this is seen at the Olympics, but to be honest the Olympics could be covered by a smaller number of photographers and this would lead to less emissions as all those photographers who travel internationally with a lot of gear could stay at home. It's a bit over-the-top extravaganza. I do enjoy watching it and the atmosphere.

It has the mirrorless features but why buy it if I want the DSLR.

I use live view a lot. Practically all the shots I make of static subjects are made using a tripod and focused using LV. This approach gives much greater accuracy in focus and composition and freedom from sources that degrade image quality than I can get hand-held. Why do I use a DSLR? Because I have DSLR lenses and enjoy and benefit from the optical viewfinder for eye-level shots of moving subjects. In my view the DSLR gives the best of both worlds in having access to sensor-level focusing for precision work and the real-time optical viewfinder for action subjects (and in the D780 the LV AF should be usable also for hand-held work and video). Mirrorless gives a better hybrid for video/stills use (because the EVF works for both), and the possibility for somewhat improved optics (mainly in the corner sharpness and short focal lengths) but optics are improving also on the DSLR side and I don't have any complaints regarding that. I don't want to give up the optical viewfinder or my current lenses (including screwdriver AF Nikkors), yet I want improvements in LV autofocus for those shots which I need to use it for. Eventually I would likely purchase some Z mount gear mainly for the quieter shooting experience and possibility of a smaller kit but I am not likely to purchase it with the intention of replacing my DSLR system, but augmenting it. However, for the time being this is too expensive for me.

The D780 has also many improvements that are relevant to still photography. Improved algorithms for AF with the viewfinder in use, improved LV AF, silent LV photography at up to 12 fps with full AF tracking, negative digitizer feature, improved AF fine tune for zooms, 68-image buffer, USB-C connectivity (probably faster transfers of data in tethered shooting), the option to charge the battery within the camera, touch screen functions to browse images, zoom, and select functions in the menus, BSI sensor, long exposure times (up to 900 s) for e.g. astrophotography, radio control of SB-5000's, improved connectivity (including raw transfers) to mobile devices, time-lapse photography, automatic focus stacking, unobstructed movement of the 24 PC due to removal of pop-up flash, improved weather sealing, etc.

While the Z6 is now cheaper (partly because its price has been cut due to sales not being up to expectations) than the D780, it has some limitations in F mount lens support (you need to use the bulging adapter, which in my opinion does no favours to handling or mounting to tripod, and screwdriver AF is not supported, and non-CPU manual focus lenses cannot be used with wide open viewing and focusing unless the taking aperture is also wide open) to take the best advantage of it, native lenses are needed, and those aren't cheap. And there is only one card slot, which we all know is a no-no. ;) Both products have advantages and disadvantages. Of course, all cameras today are excellent for taking photographs, but when one already has some equipment, in purchasing a new camera one typically is looking for specific improvements with measured cost, rather than going all-out and replacing everything in one fell swoop. I would prefer to buy and use the lenses for life rather than sell them at a loss every time someone comes up with a new system.

FX was D3, 3Q 2007.

 

DX was D300S. 3Q 2009.

 

I think....:)

thank you - I had/havd D300 but not S, I did know anybody with these models, so have never seen it, thought it was something relatively new

thank you - I had/havd D300 but not S, I did know anybody with these models, so have never seen it, thought it was something relatively new

Mike's answer is correct. Nikon immediately put dual CF cards in their first FX DSLR, namely the 2007 D3, but the D300 announced simultaneously had only one Type 2 CF slot. And Type 2 CF means the thicker 5mm Microdrive is compatible. When Nikon updated the D300 to D300S in 2009, they replaced the Type 2 CF slot with a thinner Type 1 so that you can only use CF memory cards in it, not Microdrive. Nikon used the extra space to add a SD card slot. Hence the D300S was the first Nikon DX body with dual slots, followed by the 2010 D7000 with dual SD slots, a format continued to the D7100, D7200 and the FX D600, D610, D750 and now D780.

And as I mentioned earlier, the only two Nikon FX DSLRs that have only one card slot are the D700 and Df, but so far all Z mirrorless bodies have just one slot.

Moreover, as a trivia, back in 2002 when Nikon introduced the D100, based on the F80/N80 film body, Fuji also introduced a Finepix S2 DSLR based on that same N80 film body. At the time I had a choice between the D100 and Fuji S2. The S2 actually had two memory card slots, 1 SmartMedia and 1 CF. I recall that the D100 was $2000 and the S2 was $2200 back in 2002. Eventually I decided to stick with a 100% Nikon body as my first digital camera, rather than a converted Fuji body, which also used a Nikon F mount.

The S2 actually had two memory card slots, 1 SmartMedia and 1 CF

Indeed it did! I've still got the SmartMedia Card somewhere. Probably deserves to be in a musuem!

If I trawl back through the photo.net archive I'm sure there's a post about CF card costs 'in the beginning'. AKAIR, the company I was with got 3 x 256MB LEXAR cards for £725. ie £275 EACH!

I thought the Fuji was a converted Nikon F80 Body?

As I mentioned, both the Nikon D100 and Fuji S2 were based on the Nikon F80/N80 film SLR. The F80 and N80 are exactly the same camera, but the model number in the US (North America?) was N80 and it was F80 elsewhere.

My first CF card for the D100 in 2002 was a "no name" 256M that cost me $100. In 2004 I added a 1G Lexar CF that was $240 .... We should always keep in mind that memory cards are not investments, but that is another topic.

In 2004 I added a 1G Lexar CF that was $240

Hard to imagine. But true. Now all the 1G, 2G, ,,, Gs are all gone or somewhere in the universe.

If you use that combo THAT often, you're in the market for the 120-300mm 2.8.. :p

It's a lens I am looking at for another purpose, it's too big for my ski outings. But yeah...that is a spendy beast!

With regards to the pop-up flash, I have no sympathy to its users. I am delighted at its absence from so many new Nikon cameras.

That's interesting lack of imagination you are showing there, because it has a really unique look, especially with falling snow. In fact I did an entire ski lifestyle ad campaign with it based on that low angle of incidence look. David Alan Harvey used it to great effect for a Nat Geo article on Hip-Hop that eventually made it into a book. It's especially fun when used with tape on gels and upside down...

I kept a D750 around just for this reason alone, it definitely serves a unique role.

Okay, falling snow does look good with the pop-up flash, but I don't think it's something that cannot be reproduced with on-camera flash.

Sure it can, but it is kind of a PITA to hold and also exposes the off camera flash / cord setup to moisture where as the pop-up it fast and easier to keep dry. If it is a cold storm then it is not as much of an issue but for the really cool looking Spring flakes, it can get wet fast.

If I ever have a choice of pop-up or no pop up on a camera body, I will always take the pop-up. The best flash is the one you have with you...;-)

If I ever have a choice of pop-up or no pop up on a camera body, I will always take the pop-up. The best flash is the one you have with you...;-)

I did use pop-up when it is available, It is a convenience. Now the cameras I use do not have it and I do miss it because I don't carry a flash unit all the time.

The pop-up flash is such a weak link in the construction of a DSLR (and mirrorless camera) that I am glad the recent Nikon DSLRs do not have it. For example, it is fairly easy to accidentally pop it up and then bump into something. The little gap is also easy for moisture to enter.

If one wants a small flash, there are always the SB-400, SB-500, etc.

If I ever have a choice of pop-up or no pop up on a camera body, I will always take the pop-up. The best flash is the one you have with you...;-)

OK, you take the body with the pop-up and I'll take the body without one. Gladly Nikon give me lots of options now.

I can't help but think that Nikon should have released the D780 before the Z6 - sometime 1 1/2 - 2 years ago (together with the D850 (or shortly after) or around the same time as the Sony A7III at the latest); it may have stopped a lot of the bleeding and also demonstrated that a lot of what's possible with mirrorless can be done with a DSLR (specifically, good LV AF when the imaging sensor includes PDAF sites). Now the D780 is mostly a Z6 without an EVF but with an OVF and a mirror that doesn't allow to mount Z-mount lenses but does focus with older screwdriver lenses - all for $500 more. I now fully expect a D850 successor to follow the same path - using the Z7 or the Z7-successor sensor to provide better LV AF (something the D850 could have had (and should have had) already following my thought process from above).

I think it is a good thing that Nikon isn't abruptly abandoning the F-mount and releasing some "transition camera bodies" with updated (even if only slightly in some aspects) features. One thing that keeps me from moving to the Z system right now is that the lenses I am most interested in aren't being offered yet. One is available (14-30), and the other two will be coming within a year or two (24-105 and 100-400); equivalents to all three are available with Sony though - even if it means I have to fight with the Sony menu system and the less than accommodating ergonomics.

It has been known for a long time that OSPDAF can give good LV AF; Canon have had it for years in many of their DSLRs (though using a different implementation). Nikon (who pioneered it with the Nikon 1 system) have not previously used this in DSLRs because of image quality drawbacks. There is a lot of talk about banding and striping caused by the OSPDAF sensors in more picky gear reviews evaluating various mirrorless cameras. Z6 and Z7 are unfortunately not free of these artifacts and they may affect image quality in some circumstances either in bright specular light with wide-aperture lenses (night club lights in the background, for example) or by showing as lines in the deepest shadows. I don't think it would necessarily be wise for Nikon to change the D850 to have the Z7 sensor. I think it's sufficient that the D780 provides this functionality in the DSLR lineup.

Dxomark tests suggest the D850 to have higher dynamic range at ISO 200 and below, compared to the Z7. Also the Z6 loses to D750 in low to medium ISO dynamic range. These could be related to the OSPDAF sensors, or something else in the design.

Anyway, Sony are now using a 61MP FX sensor in one of their cameras and I've read that the company also have made a 100MP sensor that could potentially be used in a future camera. Tetsuro Goto in a recent Nikon Owner interview mentioned that there is no limit and that 100MP might be useful. I doubt the D850 would be succeeded with another 45MP model. I think 100MP would be nice to put the idea to rest that image quality isn't improving any more. With CFexpress, it would be possible to shoot 10-15fps with 100MP continuously if the processor(s) in the camera can keep up.

The pop-up flash is such a weak link in the construction of a DSLR (and mirrorless camera) that I am glad the recent Nikon DSLRs do not have it. For example, it is fairly easy to accidentally pop it up and then bump into something. The little gap is also easy for moisture to enter.

 

If one wants a small flash, there are always the SB-400, SB-500, etc.

I have been using pop-up flash since the D100 and have really taken all these cameras into some pretty rough exposure and have never-ever had an issue with any of them in regards to the flash.

That’s over half a million pictures with no issues. Like I said in the other post, I have kept one D750 just for the unique flash quality a pop-up flash gives, its really paid off many times.

Half-a-million pictures with the pop-up flash? Or half a million photos with cameras that have a pop-up flash? I have almost never been in a situation where I would have gotten a satisfactory result with the pop-up flash. I can list the successes here: I took a photo of the cottage of our family in snow and the flash made the falling snow more visible. I used it once in the forest to light some raindrops in leaves and that came out alright. Finally I used it as a fill light when photographing a steam train taking off Victoria Station. However, I mostly use flash for photographing people and for that purpose I've had nothing but grief with it. Basically when the pop-up is used, the pre-flashes cause a lot of eye closures in subjects, it's been almost impossible to get a group photo where all the subjects have neutral eyes without being in some state of partial or complete closure. This doesn't happen to the same extent when using the infrared (SU-800) or radio controlled remote flash. Furthermore, when the pop-up is used to trigger remotes, the camera slows down and often I've found the camera refusing to fire. If photographing e.g. a group of 10-20 people, if one doesn't want stiff expressions, generally one needs to take several shots to ensure good expressions on everyone and open eyes. If the camera won't fire because the pop-up is too hot, that's a problem. Often the remotes are not firing because the light didn't reach that far. And sometimes when using it as a commander (i.e. no light should be emitted from the pop-up apart from triggering the remote flashes) I've noticed it still contributes some light on the foreground. And I intensely dislike the shape and direction of the light coming from the pop-up flash. It produces piercingly sharp catch lights rather than soft natural ones. It often causes red eye. Its light is often shadowed by the lens or lens hood. It also induces some mechanical issues with the 24mm PC not being able to move as freely as it does on cameras without pop-up flash. People used to be able to order and change the rubbers of the cameras themselves. Nikon stopped this practice and when asked about it, they said it's because of the electrical hazard from the capacitor for the built-in flash, even if it is not in use and the camera is off, it can still be charged and people need to first short it before doing any other work on the camera. Finally the space saved by removing the pop-up flash can be used for other camera functions, such as a larger pentaprism, or wifi/radio functions. None of my current Nikon cameras have a built-in flash and this is one of the distinct improvements that I'm happy about in how the cameras have changed over the years. Anyway, apologies if it sounds like I am rambling.

I read that Nikon says the D750 will continue to be in the lineup for quite some time, so those who need its features and don't want the D780 can still get it.

Fair enough.

 

And the 3 little holes?

Came to me rather belatedly while pondering selling my D7000............Loudspeaker! Easy really.

Re the pop-up flash.

I've used it on both the D40 and the D7000 in daylight out of doors to lighten shadows. On the D40 with 1/500 sec. sync. it works better for this because you get about 40% more range. On a DX camera and especially a lightweight DX camera it probably makes more sense than on FX where the camera and lenses tend to hide the extra weight and bulk of a separate flash. The cost too becomes less of a factor.

The lack of a pop up flash would not deter me from getting a D 780. I much prefer better weather sealing. And if I need a small flash I would get the one designed by Nikon and place it on the hot shoe and avoid some pf those nasty shadows caused by lens hoods on some lenses used with pop up flash on my D 800e and D 810.

One new feature on the D 780 that I do not fully understand is the ability to recharge the battery through USB-c? This sounds like a plus, but I would like a better description of how it works.

One new feature on the D 780 that I do not fully understand is the ability to recharge the battery through USB-c? This sounds like a plus, but I would like a better description of how it works.

That feature is already available on the Z6 and Z7, but you must have an EN-EL15B battery inside. The earlier EN-EL15 and EN-EL15A cannot be charged inside the camera.

You just leave the battery inside the camera. Use an USB-A to USB-C cable to connect the camera to a USB charger, such as one that comes with a smart phone. I think such a charger may come with the Z7??, but not the Z6. I have a Z6 so that I am not sure.

I recently bought a cheap, $10 third-party charger that can charge two EN-EL15 (any version) simultaneously. It works pretty much the same way.