Auto iso with fill flash

I am shooting birds with a Canon 7D . My settings were Manual 5.6 ,1/250 Auto ISO . I was also using a Canon Flash set at 1/28 th power with a Flash Extender to create a hi-lite in the eye Because of the time it took the flash to recycle some images were made with the flash and others not. For the images that were made with the flash the auto ISO choose 400 and underexposed . For the images that were made without the flash auto ISO choose 1250 and the exposure was on. .What am I doing wrong?

Try this: Manual mode. ISO 100. Shutter speed 1/125. f-stop 5.6. Put flash in manual mode and get it off the camera or bounce it off the ceiling or wall. Set flash power at 1/4 and adjust as necessary to get a good exposure.

How far away were the birds? Birds in flight? 1/28 power is weak and in my opinion unless you are right next to these birds, 1/28 is not going to do much out doors at any distance.. There are also 4 metering modes with Canon to consider, spot, partial, center metered weighted average and evaluative which is going change what the camera calculates is the best iso. If birds in flight, the camera is looking at the sky and that light level more than one small patch of bird. I suggest doing some practice test shots out doors, picking a bird on a wire or something similar and play with power settings and the flash extender. My next thought is 1/250 is right at the edge of the fastest manual flash setting and you are using a flash extender, I am no expert on these extenders but I don't think the camera knows there is a flash extender focusing the light beam and takes any of this into the calculations. Also, I wonder if going to high speed sync may be better also if birds in flight and going to a faster shutter speed like 1/600 to 1/2000. I think doing some testing to learn what are the best settings. You are letting a camera determine settings, it is a dumb machine and not perfect, I suggest testing to determine what is going to work for this unique application. You may want to consider going full manual, as I was taught, who is the photographer, you or the camera. There are situation the auto setting work ok, but not all the time. Good luck on your testing and getting better shots.

Try this: Manual mode. ISO 100. Shutter speed 1/125. f-stop 5.6. Put flash in manual mode and get it off the camera or bounce it off the ceiling or wall. Set flash power at 1/4 and adjust as necessary to get a good exposure.

I appreciate you reply Tom and i"m sure that would work.but I am shooting birds in the woods and there is no ceiling to bounce my flash.

How far away were the birds? Birds in flight? 1/28 power is weak and in my opinion unless you are right next to these birds, 1/28 is not going to do much out doors at any distance.. There are also 4 metering modes with Canon to consider, spot, partial, center metered weighted average and evaluative which is going change what the camera calculates is the best iso. If birds in flight, the camera is looking at the sky and that light level more than one small patch of bird. I suggest doing some practice test shots out doors, picking a bird on a wire or something similar and play with power settings and the flash extender. My next thought is 1/250 is right at the edge of the fastest manual flash setting and you are using a flash extender, I am no expert on these extenders but I don't think the camera knows there is a flash extender focusing the light beam and takes any of this into the calculations. Also, I wonder if going to high speed sync may be better also if birds in flight and going to a faster shutter speed like 1/600 to 1/2000. I think doing some testing to learn what are the best settings. You are letting a camera determine settings, it is a dumb machine and not perfect, I suggest testing to determine what is going to work for this unique application. You may want to consider going full manual, as I was taught, who is the photographer, you or the camera. There are situation the auto setting work ok, but not all the time. Good luck on your testing and getting better shots.

Thanks Mark. I find auto settings useful when I am shooting birds in the woods and the light is

constantly changing. I wanted to post the two images I made with exactly the same settings, but I don't know how to include an image in a post.

I can focus on a bird and get my exposure right. What puzzled me was when the flash fired, the camera chose an ISO that underexposed the image. The following exposure shot while the flash was recycling was exposed at a higher ISO and the exposure was perfect.

I appreciate you reply Tom and i"m sure that would work.but I am shooting birds in the woods and there is no ceiling to bounce my flash.

How far away were the birds? Birds in flight? 1/28 power is weak and in my opinion unless you are right next to these birds, 1/28 is not going to do much out doors at any distance.. There are also 4 metering modes with Canon to consider, spot, partial, center metered weighted average and evaluative which is going change what the camera calculates is the best iso. If birds in flight, the camera is looking at the sky and that light level more than one small patch of bird. I suggest doing some practice test shots out doors, picking a bird on a wire or something similar and play with power settings and the flash extender. My next thought is 1/250 is right at the edge of the fastest manual flash setting and you are using a flash extender, I am no expert on these extenders but I don't think the camera knows there is a flash extender focusing the light beam and takes any of this into the calculations. Also, I wonder if going to high speed sync may be better also if birds in flight and going to a faster shutter speed like 1/600 to 1/2000. I think doing some testing to learn what are the best settings. You are letting a camera determine settings, it is a dumb machine and not perfect, I suggest testing to determine what is going to work for this unique application. You may want to consider going full manual, as I was taught, who is the photographer, you or the camera. There are situation the auto setting work ok, but not all the time. Good luck on your testing and getting better shots.

Thanks Mark. I find auto settings useful when I am shooting birds in the woods and the light is

constantly changing. I wanted to post the two images I made with exactly the same settings, but I don't know how to include an image in a post.

I can focus on a bird and get my exposure right. What puzzled me was when the flash fired, the camera chose an ISO that underexposed the image. The following exposure shot while the flash was recycling was exposed at a higher ISO and the exposure was perfect.

I appreciate you reply Tom and i"m sure that would work.but I am shooting birds in the woods and there is no ceiling to bounce my flash.

 

Thanks Mark. I find auto settings useful when I am shooting birds in the woods and the light is

constantly changing. I wanted to post the two images I made with exactly the same settings, but I don't know how to include an image in a post.

I can focus on a bird and get my exposure right. What puzzled me was when the flash fired, the camera chose an ISO that underexposed the image. The following exposure shot while the flash was recycling was exposed at a higher ISO and the exposure was perfect.

 

 

but I don't know how to include an image in a post.

1: reduce the size to 1000 pixels max, JPG file.

2:klick upload a file .

Under this box that you are typing in, there is a button to upload a file. Use that to upload a jpeg.. Edit your image as a jpeg around 1000 to 1500 pixels wide prior to uploading, this size should be adequate. The image will appear in your posting. Before hitting post reply you will be given the option to post full image or thumb nail. I suggest full image. Either will work.

. I find auto settings useful when I am shooting birds in the woods and the light is

constantly changing

 

I suggest using spot metering mode and have the center on your bird subject. Are you using a Canon speedlight? If still under exposing, turn up the speedlight power, also make sure you flash extender is focusing the light on your bird subject.

Under this box that you are typing in, there is a button to upload a file. Use that to upload a jpeg.. Edit your image as a jpeg around 1000 to 1500 pixels wide prior to uploading, this size should be adequate. The image will appear in your posting. Before hitting post reply you will be given the option to post full image or thumb nail. I suggest full image. Either will work.

 

Thank you so much Mark. When i hit that button before I was asked for the URL of the image I wanted to post. Worked perfectly this time. In the first (dark) image the flash fired. In the second (properly exposed ) image the flash did not fire because it was recycling. I did not make any changes . I guess what I should learn from the experience is that Auto ISO does not work with flash.

hank you so much Mark. When i hit that button before I was asked for the URL of the image I wanted to post. Worked perfectly this time. In the first (dark) image the flash fired. In the second (properly exposed ) image the flash did not fire because it was recycling. I did not make any changes . I guess what I should learn from the experience is that Auto ISO does not work with flash.

1. You will be asked for URL if you wish to share an image already on the web using image icon button at the top of the editing box to the right of the Happy Face.

2.. I think you have your flash power set way to low. You need to bump that up. There is something called inverse square law which means everytime you double the distance between your subject and your light source (your speedlight) the light intensity on the subject drops and is reduced to a quarter the intensity.

 

To put it simply, understanding the concept, you are under exposed and need to turn up the speedlight power.

 

You can also start playing around with exposure compensation on your Canon camera to make images brighter.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Mark Keefer

Canon always defaults to ISO 400 with Auto ISO when a flash is used. Don't use Auto ISO when shooting with a flash and all your problems will be solved. Use ISO 1250 or even a bit more like ISO 1600 or ISO 2000 and your flash will then have more reach as well. Edited December 30, 2019 by mike_sowsun

If the flash is just to create a catch light, maybe try triggering it via a pc sync cord or a 'dumb' hotshoe. In other words, triggering it in such a way that the camera has no way of knowing that there is a flash present, thus allowing you to use auto ISO.

 

If the flash power is low enough, it shouldn't alter the exposure.

 

Worth a try perhaps?

I am shooting birds with a Canon 7D . My settings were Manual 5.6 ,1/250 Auto ISO . I was also using a Canon Flash . . . images that were made with the flash the auto ISO choose 400 and underexposed . For the images that were made without the flash auto ISO choose 1250 and the exposure was on. . .What am I doing wrong?

 

As Mike has mentioned, the protocol for Canon DSLRs is, when AUTO ISO is engaged, the primary default will be the camera will set FIXED ISO 400.

In the situation that you described, that is what you were doing wrong and that is what accounted for the under-exposure. (Plus the fact that the Flash Power setting was too weak to act as the Key Light)

 

***

 

Additional to that Primary Default there are two variables: When AUTO ISO is engaged and -

 

1. IF setting FIXED ISO400 - AND - the camera's TTL reckons the resultant image will be overexposed, then the camera will set between ISO100 and ISO400 in an attempt to correct.

 

2. IF either P Mode - OR - Full Auto Mode is engaged - AND - the Flash is Bounced, then the camera will set between ISO400 and ISO1600.

 

WW

Canon always defaults to ISO 400 with Auto ISO when a flash is used. Don't use Auto ISO when shooting with a flash and all your problems will be solved. Use ISO 1250 or even a bit more like ISO 1600 or ISO 2000 and your flash will then have more reach as well.

Canon always defaults to ISO 400 with Auto ISO when a flash is used. Don't use Auto ISO when shooting with a flash and all your problems will be solved. Use ISO 1250 or even a bit more like ISO 1600 or ISO 2000 and your flash will then have more reach as well.

Thank you so much Mike. I will not use auto ISO with flash again.

1. You will be asked for URL if you wish to share an image already on the web using image icon button at the top of the editing box to the right of the Happy Face.

2.. I think you have your flash power set way to low. You need to bump that up. There is something called inverse square law which means everytime you double the distance between your subject and your light source (your speedlight) the light intensity on the subject drops and is reduced to a quarter the intensity.

 

To put it simply, understanding the concept, you are under exposed and need to turn up the speedlight power.

 

You can also start playing around with exposure compensation on your Canon camera to make images brighter.

Thank you Mark

If the flash is just to create a catch light, maybe try triggering it via a pc sync cord or a 'dumb' hotshoe. In other words, triggering it in such a way that the camera has no way of knowing that there is a flash present, thus allowing you to use auto ISO.

 

If the flash power is low enough, it shouldn't alter the exposure.

 

Worth a try perhaps?

I will try that Steve but I guess it is easier to not use Auto ISO because now I know it defaults to ISO 400 when the flash is used.

As Mike has mentioned, the protocol for Canon DSLRs is, when AUTO ISO is engaged, the primary default will be the camera will set FIXED ISO 400.

In the situation that you described, that is what you were doing wrong and that is what accounted for the under-exposure. (Plus the fact that the Flash Power setting was too weak to act as the Key Light)

 

***

 

Additional to that Primary Default there are two variables: When AUTO ISO is engaged and -

 

1. IF setting FIXED ISO400 - AND - the camera's TTL reckons the resultant image will be overexposed, then the camera will set between ISO100 and ISO400 in an attempt to correct.

 

2. IF either P Mode - OR - Full Auto Mode is engaged - AND - the Flash is Bounced, then the camera will set between ISO400 and ISO1600.

 

WW

Thank You for your help William.

I know nothing about photographing birds and not much about using a flash I have recently learned to manually set my flash settings with mixed results;). For me - as an amateur - my occasional flash settings are very much trial and error. I'm sure that more experienced flashers are much better able to predict which settings work best in specific situations and at specific distances.

 

It seems to me - as a novice - that the flash power (and range) should ideally be aligned with the shooting distance, whatever that is. There may be times when the zoom range is good but that the flash range/power is insufficient or too powerful. So if I photograph some kind of 'even, I take a couple of take test shots to work out what my flash settings should be. Unless you know where birds are going to be, this is is impossible!

 

The main point I want I want to make is that any 'good enough' (RAW) exposure in situ can become a much better exposure through Post Processing. By tweaking exposure, highlights, shadows, contrast, colors, etc. You may well want to just 'capture the moment' as it presents itself as best you can. If it was me, I would have taken your first exposure an just post-processed it into your second exposure.

 

I did learn a lot from the previous posts on 'automatic ISO settings'. FWIW - through amateur sport photography - I've learned never to rely on automatic ISO! I always manually adjust the ISO depending on the aperture or shutter speed that I need. If there's high ISO noise, I can reduce it.

I know nothing about photographing birds and not much about using a flash I have recently learned to manually set my flash settings with mixed results;). For me - as an amateur - my occasional flash settings are very much trial and error. I'm sure that more experienced flashers are much better able to predict which settings work best in specific situations and at specific distances.

 

It seems to me - as a novice - that the flash power (and range) should ideally be aligned with the shooting distance, whatever that is. There may be times when the zoom range is good but that the flash range/power is insufficient or too powerful. So if I photograph some kind of 'even, I take a couple of take test shots to work out what my flash settings should be. Unless you know where birds are going to be, this is is impossible!

 

The main point I want I want to make is that any 'good enough' (RAW) exposure in situ can become a much better exposure through Post Processing. By tweaking exposure, highlights, shadows, contrast, colors, etc. You may well want to just 'capture the moment' as it presents itself as best you can. If it was me, I would have taken your first exposure an just post-processed it into your second exposure.

 

I did learn a lot from the previous posts on 'automatic ISO settings'. FWIW - through amateur sport photography - I've learned never to rely on automatic ISO! I always manually adjust the ISO depending on the aperture or shutter speed that I need. If there's high ISO noise, I can reduce it.

 

Thanks Mike. I appreciate you advice. Most wildlife photographers shoot in Aperture or Time controlled setting because wildlife is unpredictable and the lighting often changes, particularly if you are in the woods. Manual settings work fine with captive wildlife. I was not trying to light the bird with my flash. I just wanted to create a hi-lite in its eye. Previous posters taught me that if one is using a flash auto ISO defaults to ISO 400 and that is a valuable lesson.