Using Exposure Values for Film Photography 2019

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William

 

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Help again,

Both Zeiss lenses I have make it possible to lock the shutter speed and f stop functions, to shoot on an Exposure Value scale, which is also printed on the lens. I get the feeling that EV use is more a generalized sort of way to shoot certain light conditions, rather than an exact or precise method...

 

is there any reason to try to use the EV scale right away or am I better off learning basic use of f stop, shutter speed and ISO settings instead?

 

Also, (another question) I'm getting the hint that different aperture settings result in varying depth of field. I sort of thought that smaller aperture (IE larger opening?) would be better in lower lighting, but not necessarily? In my earlier thread about shooting buildings at night, I said I'd used the aperture setting of f2.8. Not having gotten my film back yet, so not knowing what I've done, exactly, would I have gotten an image of a building in full focus in f2.8, or would I have needed to use a different setting to get a shot where everything is in focus?

 

 

Thanks, clearly I have a long ways to go in understanding my camera and its functions.

Edited September 25, 2019 by William Michael

The wikipedia articles are usually pretty good on this kind of thing: Exposure value - Wikipedia

 

If you can find out what cameras the lenses were (are) on, then go to Butkus for the manual, that will, among other things, explain the EV.

 

I have shot some Zeiss (West) EV cameras (e.g., Contaflex Prima - "Zeiss Stuttgart") and found the EV system slightly less annoying than I remembered from olden times; but still very awkward, especially if you just want to set speed and aperture independently..

EV use is more a generalized sort of way to shoot certain light conditions

 

Yes it's a way of maintaining the correct exposure for different depths of field and for different shutter speeds as they're desired. Of course the lighting conditions must remain the same as you are twisting and turning getting various shots on the beach, in the meadow or in your backyard. Want a shallow depth of field ? turn the locked rings to f2.8. Want a long depth of field ? turn the locked rings to f16. For shutter speeds, turn the locked rings to set speeds you want to shoot at, and still the correct exposure will be maintained.

 

 

Also, (another question) I'm getting the hint that different aperture settings result in varying depth of field. I sort of thought that smaller aperture (IE larger opening?) would be better in lower lighting, but not necessarily? In my earlier thread about shooting buildings at night, I said I'd used the aperture setting of f2.8. Not having gotten my film back yet, so not knowing what I've done, exactly, would I have gotten an image of a building in full focus in f2.8, or would I have needed to use a different setting to get a shot where everything is in focus?

 

Do you use a tripod and cable release for night shots ? Using these gives you a chance to set slow shutter speeds and small aperture openings for long depth of fields

shooting buildings at night, I said I'd used the aperture setting of f2.8. Not having gotten my film back yet, so not knowing what I've done, exactly, would I have gotten an image of a building in full focus in f2.8, or would I have needed to use a different setting to get a shot where everything is in focus?

there are wonderful DOF calculators online <-click!

IDK what focal length on what we are talking about, but set to 100m a 80mm should provide DOF from 50m to infinity at f2.8 So yes, your photos might turn out usable. Depending on what else you haven't goofed up.

 

To me EVs look like an intended simplification adding a complication layer. But everything depends on your preferences, way of thinking and workflow.

I want the options within an EV displayed, while I am looking at my meter and haven't even decided if I want to bring or unbag my camera.

 

Maybe EVs were invented as the closest thing to P-mode a fully manual camera can provide? IDK; I live without them, as long as I am not shopping AF usability or exposure metering ranges.

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is there any reason to try to use the EV scale right away or am I better off learning basic use of f stop, shutter speed and ISO settings instead?

...

 

Imho your photography skills will be better off in the long term if you have a good understanding of what aperture, shutter speed and ISO are and how they relate to each other - exposure triangle.

 

For example.......given that a 1 stop change in exposure is a doubling or halving of the amount of light that hits the camera sensor......for a given ISO setting and everything else being equal, if you reduce the aperture by 1 stop (increase the f stop value) then you need to double the shutter speed to maintain the same Exposure Value (EV).

 

...

Also, (another question) I'm getting the hint that different aperture settings result in varying depth of field. I sort of thought that smaller aperture (IE larger opening?) would be better in lower lighting, but not necessarily? In my earlier thread about shooting buildings at night, I said I'd used the aperture setting of f2.8. Not having gotten my film back yet, so not knowing what I've done, exactly, would I have gotten an image of a building in full focus in f2.8, or would I have needed to use a different setting to get a shot where everything is in focus?

...

 

I think you might be a little confused here. The larger the f stop value, the smaller the actual aperture of the lens. The smaller the f stop value, the larger the actual aperture of the lens.

 

In any case, regarding Depth Of Field (DOF) -

 

DOF is determined by the aperture, focal length and subject distance from the camera.

 

1. For a given focal length and subject distance from the camera the smaller the aperture (increasing fstop number) the larger the DOF.

 

2. For a given aperture and focal length, the greater the subject distance from the camera the larger the DOF.

 

3. For a given aperture and distance from the camera, the longer the focal length the shorter the DOF.

Although the OP is asking specifically about a 135 Format Film Camera, as a general comment about DoF -

 

Added to points 1, 2 and 3 above: the DoF is dependent upon the camera format, (i.e. size of the neg or sensor). Generalizing, and not getting into the conversation of "Equivalence" - The smaller sensor size or negative size that a camera has, means that for any given Aperture and Subject Framing the larger the DoF will be. On this point, generally the 135 Format Camera size (both Film and Digital) offers the best opportunities for the greatest RANGE of DoF. This is based in the fact there is such a range of very fast lenses (e.g. F/1.2~2.8) available for this particular Camera Format. And the 135 Format offers the best opportunity to create very shallow DoF in most general Photography situations, (obviously provided one has suitable lenses to use).

 

It's also worthwhile noting that DoF is not an exact measurement, it is a distance range which renders that area in "acceptably sharp focus".

 

Many documents historically support that "acceptably sharp focus" was originally based upon a 10 x 8, full frame print (i.e. all of the negative area being printed) being viewed at arm's distance. This is an important point, because, obviously, once the image is printed (or viewed on a screen) the Viewing Distance and the Enlargement or Cropping Factor will have an impact upon what is 'acceptably sharp'.

 

WW

. . . clearly I have a long ways to go in understanding my camera and its functions.

 

If you have a Digital Camera, or the access to use one: I think that using a Digital Camera for learning the basics of Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed and their relationship to each other and to Exposure would make your learning journey easier and quicker.

 

Your own words - "Not having gotten my film back yet, so not knowing what I've done, exactly,"

On the other hand, the visual feedback and the EXIF data, when using a Digital Camera, is almost instantaneous.

WW

If you have a Digital Camera, or the access to use one: I think that using a Digital Camera for learning the basics of Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed and their relationship to each other and to Exposure would make your learning journey easier and quicker.

Entirely agreed.

Film is a terrible medium for learning the technicalities of exposure with. Simply because there is no immediate feedback showing the result of varying aperture, shutter speed, etc.

 

Learn the basics with a digital camera that allows full manual control. Then move on to film, if you must.

 

Also, there are no digital cameras with a stupid EV lock on the lens!

On the other hand, the visual feedback and the EXIF data, when using a Digital Camera, is almost instantaneous.

 

 

Is there anything in EXIF data to indicate what the DoF is in a digital image ? Is a visual inspection on a 3" LCD screen adequate for checking DoF ?

Is there anything in EXIF data to indicate what the DoF is in a digital image ?

 

To answer the question as it was put -

 

Yes.

 

There would need to be some extrapolation. Some (most?) EXIF data contains the following:

 

Focal Length of Lens

Camera Format

Subject Distance (actually Distance to Plane of Sharp Focus)

Aperture

 

With that data and using an accepted CoC (Circle of Confusion), and inputting that data into a DoF program then, it would be simple to assess an approximate DoF.

 

Also, if the Distance to Plane of Sharp Focus was not available, then there are often reasonable approximates for either the HFoV (Horizontal Field of View) or VFoV (Vertical Field of View) at the Plane of Sharp Focus, which can be attained by the application of simple investigative techniques. For example the height of an average man or woman, the number of bricks, the width of a pavement, etc. and from that the Subject Distance can be reasonably approximated.

 

 

Is a visual inspection on a 3" LCD screen adequate for checking DoF ?

 

On this second question, not necessarily advising that the viewing of an image on a 3" screen is the best technique for assessing DoF, but I think it would be equitable, probably better than the DoF Preview Button on 135 Format Cameras.

 

However if a zoom function is available for Image Preview on the Digital Camera (and noted many cameras do have it) then yes that's a reasonable in-camera tool for assessing the DoF - and at the least, as Post #7 was commenting on tools for the 'learning environment' a 3" LCD with a zoom function would easily distinguish that F/2.8 had less DoF than F/8, for the same scene.

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However, more importantly and to assist the OP - the main point of the WHOLE text of Post #7 was to advise the OP that using a Digital Camera, i.e. one which provides almost instantaneous feedback, would be a better GENERAL learning tool, not necessarily ONLY for assessing DoF, and I think that intention was evident in the original post's content.

 

WW

The locked EV on some cameras scale was an early attempt to try to make things "easier" for novice photographers who might not have knowledge of the variables relationships in exposure. I have a couple of cameras which incorporate this locking "feature", as well as traditional aperture and shutter speed markings. At one time I had an accessory light meter which only indicated EV values. IMHO, I think it worthwhile for the OP to acquaint himself more broadly with exposure issues...and can highly recommend getting his hands on the readily available book, "Light, Science & Magic" which should significantly enhance his understanding of the fundamentals.

I use the EV system on my Hasselblad, but mostly because I don't have an easy way around it.

 

I admit that it's somewhat convenient once set, but setting it in the first place or changing the exposure is a bit of a pain.

 

I live with it and use the camera in spite of the EV system, not because of it.

If members wish to contribute further to this discussion then please see the originally posted conversation {HERE LINK}

 

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William

Edited September 25, 2019 by William Michael