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Nikon F2 - viewfinder display problem?


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Hey guys,

I got an F2 recently fitted with a DP-2.

My problem is that the shutter speeds don't show properly in the viewfinder. When I set the speeds to the exact click stops on the dial, the numbers in the finder are never straight and not in the middle, only when I turn to half stops they move into the right place inside the little square. I took off the finder to see if I could line it up properly but I had no success so far, every time I put it back the same thing happens. Perhaps I should unscrew something underneath the ISO dial and then try to move the dial to the right place but I don't want to mess with it unless I know what I am doing.

Any suggestions?

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It's been a long time since I refurbished an F2 Photomic finder. The coupling between the shutter speed/ASA selector and the display and rheostat inside the finder is a simple pulley cord. Let's hope it doesn't come to adjusting that, because it's not a simple job.

 

First things first. Does the knob on the DP-2 properly line up with the camera body's speed selector? And if the camera shutter speed knob is misaligned, then the meter knob will be out too. The indicated speeds (on the knob) should line up exactly with the white dot on the finder.

 

The user manual is here. If you haven't already got it. The pictures might help.

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Hey Joe, I didn't expect a reply this soon, went off on a trip and didn't take this new F2 with me (because of this damn shutter display issue) instead I have my old F100 on me at the moment so I can only go through these checks next week.

 

As far as I can remember the camera's shutter speed knob is lined up properly and yes if I am correct the speeds on the DP-2 were also in sync with it.

I have to have another look at this again when I get home. If I can't fix this, probably I will return it to the seller.

 

Thanks a lot by the way for these suggestions, can't wait to have another look at the camera.

Edited by L_johnsilver
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It isn't unusual for the aperture or shutter display to be a bit crooked or imprecise in the F2 pre-AI Photomic prisms (DP1, DP2, DP3). The display numbers are on tiny translucent mylar discs, as rodeo_joe mentioned these are mechanically operated by tiny pulleys connected to the prism controls and aperture coupling. There are multiple interaction points where tolerances can drift slightly, and serviced prisms may have been knocked slightly out of alignment.

 

None of this is absolutely crucial in a "user" F2 camera. A slightly offset aperture or shutter finder display has a minimal effect on exposure accuracy. And the inherent design of the prism shutter dial to camera shutter speed knob coupling includes up to a half stop of "slop" or play anyway. Hard as it is to believe, these once top-of-the-line, uber-pro, very expensive cameras could have meter prism variances as much as a stop. But since they're manual exposure, with use you quickly get a feel for how to accurately interpret the "sloppy" reading and shutter/aperture haptics, so the system actually works rather well. Shifting the film speed setting slightly will often do the trick. This was tolerated in exchange for the tremendous versatility the camera offered with finders, meters and screens.

 

The most important functional issue to look for in the DP2 prism (F2S) is whether both meter lamps work, are of equal brightness when both are lit to indicate correct exposure, and are lit steadily (no constant flickering). There is a resistor in the shutter/ASA dial that can sometimes oxidize or wear: check that exposure readings match another reference camera or phone meter app, and that changing shutter speeds, film speeds or apertures results in just a single lamp being steadily lit (again, flickering is a bad sign). The F2S has some nice features like ability to read down to -2 EV low light, and the meter arrow lamps automatically lighting up the shutter and aperture displays indoors or in dim situations. (Getting similar capabilities from a newer F2SB or F2AS costs nearly double.)

 

If this F2S is otherwise in excellent working condition, the meter circuit passes the above tests, and you feel the price was reasonable: keep it. Good functional F2S meter prisms have become scarce: if this one is good, and the finder shutter/aperture displays are not WAY off, consider just living with it. It is possible to loosen some tiny screws and washers in the prism shutter/asa assembly to adjust display position + relative film speed, but I wouldn't advise DIY for that unless you're familiar with camera repair. It takes a lot of time and patience to get exactly right, and making the numbers fully center in the little windows might require deep disassembly of the prism housing to access the pulleys and display wheels.

 

Of course, if you paid more than the going rate for a pristine collector condition F2S, I can see where you might want to return it. Just be aware that when you buy a replacement, it might have similar display alignment issues: most aren't quite perfect in that regard. And always remember to push the advance lever flush between shots, to turn off the meter and conserve power (those pretty lights will eat up the battery if left on for a few hours).

Edited by orsetto
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Hey Orsetto, thanks for your thoughts.

 

Actually the left side lamp is slightly dimmer and I noticed some occasional flickering as well, it was hard to get both lights to come on at the same time.

I have a few old but good Nikon bodies so I will compare accuracy when I get back in town.

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The viewfinder shutter speed display in my FM has been slightly off forever.

Not half way, maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of the way, so the whole number is still visible, but just crooked.

 

I never thought about getting it fixed.

 

As far as I know, as noted above, the mylar disk with numbers is slightly off from the desired

position, but the rest of the mechanism is fine.

 

In the F2, the finder is removable, so maybe easier to fix.

But after 40 years, I think I won't worry about it.

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-- glen

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Actually the left side lamp is slightly dimmer and I noticed some occasional flickering as well, it was hard to get both lights to come on at the same time.

 

The left lamp being slightly dimmer is relatively common as these cameras hit their 43rd to 47th birthdays. A little bit dimmer is OK, but if it isn't easily visible when shooting outdoors in sunlight it is too dim.

 

Flickering is OK up to a point. Because the meter lights can display an exposure change of as little as 1/5 stop, the smallest movement can cause the scene in the viewfinder to shift just enough that the display rapidly alternates from two arrow lights to just one as it reads the slight changes. While this is annoying, it is accurate, and how the meter was designed to function.

 

When testing for flicker, aim the camera at a close object that is evenly lit (perhaps a lampshade that you keep centered n the finder metering circle). Adjust so both finder arrows light for correct exposure. As long as you keep that area in the circle, both arrows should remain steadily lit. If they flicker back and forth, there could be a problem in the circuit or the resistors that track shutter-aperture-film speed settings.

 

Also check for steady incorrect readings from each arrow lamp: get just one or the other to light by over and under exposing by three stops. Each arrow by itself should remain steadily bright with no flickering. If they seem to dim and brighten, or flicker on and off, theres a problem.

 

The F2S was a very early attempt at electronic meter display, so Nikon had a hard time getting the circuit perfectly sorted out. There were six major updates over the course of three years, reflected in the serial number and presence (or not) of a colored dot under the shutter dial. Broadly speaking, prism serial numbers between 54xxx and 56xxx are newer and more stable than 50xxx-53xxx. If your prism is below 53xxx and has display issues, it may not be reliable long term.

 

Its also worth noting the F2S (or DP2 meter prism) were not originally intended to be sold as stand-alone items to be used like ordinary cameras. The whole point of having the electronic two-light display was so the meter could signal a then-groundbreaking accessory AE motor to turn the lens aperture ring in the right direction to maintain perfect exposure. As originally envisioned, the F2S or DP2 were considered specialty items that would be sold only in combination with the (extremely expensive) AE lens motor that prompted their invention in the first place. But customer demand for a low-available-light-metering camera led to the F2S unexpectedly becoming a popular standalone offering.

 

While it works just fine without the AE motor, and has one of the best low-light meters of its era (only the Leicaflex SL2 can equal it), the F2S has usability compromises in manual-exposure operation. The simplified two-light display was ideal for driving a connected AE motor, but is a bit twitchy for manual exposure reading (its almost too sensitive, with the slightest change in subject lighting or a finger brushing the shutter dial resulting in one lamp going out even though the exposure settings are actually still correct). This binary yes/no display takes some getting used to before it becomes intuitive, unlike a traditional continuous needle display or modern bar graph display. Eventually in 1976 this led Nikon to revamp the display with three lights instead of two, that combine to show a more continuous five-step metering indication. This was the F2SB, which later became the F2AS, FM, and FM2 display.

Edited by orsetto
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The issue with the transparent disc being displaced is that it's linked to the resistor track that controls the meter. A displaced disc might indicate that the linkage has slipped, or been tampered with, and therefore the meter might also be out by some amount. I would definitely check the meter against your F100 meter using the same lens and a plain and evenly-lit surface.

 

There's an online repair manual for the DP-1 at ArcticWolf's website. The coupling knob housing and bit-of-string linkage is the same on the DP-2 AFAIK.

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